WAECO and generator

NOTSO Notso.....

Grrr!!!

So?

Not being critical or rude Notso but the information should have read that most cheapies are modified square wave NOT pure (true) sine wave.

People who read this forum expect or at least deserve to have as near as possible correct information.. and if your equipment works ok then fine, but be warned that modified square wave cheapies come with their own quirks and if your expensive electronics controlled equipment smokes ........well I leave that to you to your imagination....

Grrr!!!

Well now, could you show me the details that show you are correct on this issue.

I think you will find that an alternator of the sort that we are talking about on this forum, are a simple AC Alternator that by their nature produce a sine wave. As the rotor rotates it fluctuautes between Negative and Positive as the parts of the rotor approach and reced from the field. This power generated is not modified or passed through a cheap inverter or any other device and relies upon engine speed control to produce the correct voltage and frequency.

Now this produces a sine wave which in this case I believe is a true sine wave. Now the cheap Inverters I do agree have not got a true sine wave and produce the modified sine wave you and I agree upon.

The real issue for Cheapie generators is the lack of good voltage control and frequency variations form the standard 50 cycles per second.

Check this out my friend...This is a good discussion - just a good reminder to all who are interested..

AnswerID: 126229 Submitted: Sunday, Aug 21, 2005 at 21:47
angler replied:
I did a couple of tests with my 750 watt genny and had it running 700Watts of incandesant lights for about an hour with no problems.
The 12 volt output is around 15V but drops greatly when used for charging. Probably lifts as charge voltage increases.
I put some waveform pictures on my web site.

www.bycompass.com

go to the "of interest" pages. Reply 8 of 8


So I guess anyone can make their own mind up with this info...to use or not to use - that is the question... I think the output is a bit "Dirty" ....

Just a further follow up regarding my statement of modified sine wave - I am not comparing the modified sine wave (bastardised square wave) as used in 240v DC inverters that some of us own.

I own both a true sine wave inverter and a modified sine wave inverter.

I use the modified sw inverter for charging my hand held radios etc but nevva the lappie.... That goes on the true sine wave inverter OR the Honda - not the GMC... see below...

I also have a Honda 20ie gen as well and I also own a GMC 850w cheapie as well.
The cheapie is used at home for lights only during blackouts. I won't even put the pedestal fans on it coz they tend to be noisy due to the gen output...

Being an electronics tech and electrician I tend to be a bit careful with my equipment hence my concerns...

What I am saying is that the cheapie gens (altenators) are not sufficiently well made to produce a consistent and repeatable sine wave output. (see my previous post re pics of sinewaveforms)

Your statement regarding speed - frequency is quite true and I have no argument with that and the regulation of all parameters leaves a lot to be desired that is for sure.... To build a generator that producres a good quality sine wave output cannot be done for $98 as mine cost even in China...

So I guess we have just about discussed this subject to death but our fellow readers will have some info on which to decide....Good discussion Notso...


Grrr!!!

Yep,

And that's just what the forum is, to discuss what our experiences are and to let people make up their own mind.

So I'll go on using the cheapie the way I have for the past 4 years or so. All up it cost me $159.00 and has never given me any indication of a problem. Still use the same regulated power supply.

Notso, you say "Still use the same REGULATED power supply"

Why not run the fridge direct from the genny ??

wellll two things, fridge runs on 12 volts, no 12 volt power take off.

Regulated power supply gives me 12.8 volts so fridge loves it.

As I said, if it works for me??? My geny cost me $159.00. Has run not only my system but mates and bro in laws three stage chargers for hours all at the same time. Important of course that you don't let it run out of fuel as this causes it to hunt and produce varying voltages and frequency and will burn out devices.

Who says that the $159.00 genny doesn't produce a pure sine wave. This is not an inverter style genny but is a simple alternator and by their nature produce a pure sine wave as opposed to a modified, or chopped sine wave produced by the cheaper sine wave inverters.

Notso, the 'original post' by BennyGU, states->
""......... and was wondering if I can run it of a SuperCheapy NON-sine wave generator or whether there is some type of frequency stabilizer that I can get in order to do so""

The replies are relevant to his question on a N0N -sine wave GENERAT0R

I'm not aware of any $159 genny producing PURE sine wave, same quality as can be obtained with a pure sine wave inverter running off a battery.

Yes well Mainey, the point I am making is that his genny is in all probability a Pure Sine Wave genny but has been led astray by certain posts, as by their nature these gennys are the simplest form of Alternator generating a pure sine wave as have all alternators since time immemorial.

They can now generate a Pure Sine wave Electronically as well.

You say you are not aware of any $150 dollar genny producing a Pure Sine Wave, where does your info come from?? Have a look at the construction of these Alternators and you will see that they are a rotating coil inside a field which by it's nature produces a pure sine wave.

Do a bit of research and I think you may agree.

I repeat my point that the problem with the cheap gennys is not the type of wave they generate but poor voltage and frequency control.

Notso,
good point, what brand and model is your genny ?
and
BennyGU,
what brand and model is your "SuperCheapy non-sine wave generator" ??

Then we will have something to work with, the questions/posts will then be fully relevant to the thread with-out question.


Even though BennyGU has clearly stated his genny is a "SuperCheapy NON-sine wave generator" it can be "researched"

Hurricane Gen 850

There are about 8 or 10 different brands all coming from the same chinese factory.

The fridge actually has 240v connection built in with no need ffor a transformer and it will automatically default to 240v if it detects both 12v and 240v supplies. I would never plug anything into the 12v connection though that wasn't a battery charging lead.

Do you know if Mobitronic do a regulator?

User a GMC generator and see how long your electric charger lasts, not long at all from my experence, even blue a 240v light bulb.
Wazzaaaasa

As far as I know all alternators generate a true sine wave the voltage fluctuates between -240 and +240 to produce the Alternating current at 50 cycles (in Aus)in a sine wave form that goes smoothly from the + to the minus in a smooth curve. The modified sine wave is generated artificially by some lower quality inverters. and is often called a chopped sine wave which gives a square form to the transition from - to + in AC

It was stated at the beginning Notso, not so...

If it's NOT pure sine wave power flow then it's 'troublesome' to most "sensitive" 240v products when running DIRECT from it.

As I said above, who is it that says these do not produce a true sine wave?

The problem with sine wave is when they are generated artificially by an electronic inverter.

These cheap gennys use a simple alternator which by their nature produce a pure sine wave.

The major problem they do have is voltage and frequency regulation which is controlled by the speed of the motor.

If this is poorly controlled then you get poor voltage and frequency control.

You see this discussion can go on endlessly but it doesn't alter the fact that I, personally have never had an issue with the cheapie. It starts every time and runs all my devices I have ever plugged into it. Even runs me toaster. And me Toshiba Notebook on occasions.

its interesting that you say, "The owners manual covers everything bar charging from generator" we were looking for a fridge, and we went to a place that sold both engel and waeco.
we bought our Engel (about 3 weeks ago), the sales person at the "outdoor adventure......" said that the waeco dont like being run off a genny. they say that you should use a buffer....like a battery, between the fridge and the genny.

which is why we went the engel, run it straight off the genny!

Hi Kiwi

+ - 20v is a good day up our way , where we are last on the end of single wire ground return 11kva line !

I always find that an amusing aspect of forums, and this really is such a straight forward issue.

I won't bias this post by re-stating what I said , rather just concentrate on the aspect of believing what people say particularly salsepeople when you have no knowledge of their qualifications or competence.

Its then so easy to scare people into making unnecessary further purchases based on marginal fringe arguements.

Robin Miller

Right-on Robin :-))

I sometimes wonder if sales people confuse electrical regulators for speed regulators on generators ! To them a regulator is a regulator and it's the engine regulator (or lack of it) that causes all the problems.