split rims

Submitted: Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 16:31
ThreadID: 50494 Views:2792 Replies:6 FollowUps:16
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hi guys
just after opinions on split rims for and against have opportunity to get a set of 5 they look great they are for a gq patrol that goes bush bush regularly.thanks in advance for any opinions

regards
al
have a nice day
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Reply By: Rock Ape - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 16:45

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 16:45
Mate you will get differing opinions, this is mine

When we got rid of them on trucks I couldn't have been happier.

1. Splits are bloody heavy, pick up a steel safety rim and a split and you will see what I mean
2. I have had far less punctures with steel safety rims.
3. They can be dangerous when you have repaired them and are inflating the tyre.
4 Modern repair methods make it a lot easier to fix a punture.
5.You get a good price at Sims for splits
AnswerID: 266319

Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 16:52

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 16:52
Sorry having a few Rumbos number3 should have read Splits can be far more dangerous etc, and number4 should be for steel safety rims
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 17:35

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 17:35
I do not dispute most of what Rock Ape says BUT..........

After running splits for years I conned myself into thinking that wide tubeless tyres were the go. The GQ I bought came with those big alloy 8" rims and looked flash. Unfortunately my travels could be construed to be more adventurous than the run of the mill 4x4-er and it has cost me dearly in tyres over the past 3 years. I now run MRF Super Traction Crossplies on GQ splits for all my 4x4 stuff and still run a set of tubeless tyres on Speedie rims for around town and bitumen trips.

In 40 years of outback travel I have NEVER had an issue repairing a puncture out bush with splits and have NEVER seen one have the rim fly off when inflating. The latter only happens when a whole heap of air is injected under high pressure such as found in tyre reseller places. Skinny tyres could be prone to more punctures but if you cut a sidewall on a tubeles tyre it is unuseable and worthless. Tubless tyres are also a pain to remove from the rim out bush if you have to. Sticking plugs into them seldom keeps all the air in and you have to constantly pump the tyres up after they lkose air overnight. A tyre repair place isn't always handy somewhere in the Gibson Desert.

My experience and my opinion as usual...lol

Cheers
AnswerID: 266325

Follow Up By: Topcat (WA) - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 18:41

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 18:41
Hi Willem,
I agree with the simplicity of repairing punctures on tyres fitted to split rims - I myself used them for many years of outback travel before going to tubeless rims. I have staked a few tubeless tyres in my time on the sidewalls & have successfully repaired them by fitting a sidewall patch over the cut area & fitting a tube to complete the repair. Have you tried this method? You can get the sidewall patches in various sizes (depending on the cut area) from leading tyre retailers. I carry one of those screw type beadbreakers with the tyre explander attachment & don't have much trouble removing & replacing the tyre on the rim. Cheers
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FollowupID: 528431

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 08:14

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 08:14
G'day Topcat

I have always wanted a R&R Beadbreaker but never got around to it. I have tyrepliers and still manage to work them OK. Yeah patches and tubes in tubless tyres will work and I have just that in a set of Eldorados I use for around town stuff. The tubeless 'fat' tyres are not much chop out bush as their sidewalls are far to thin and stake easuly. Radial tyres on skinny steel rims are a tad better.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 528507

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 18:17

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 18:17
Willem,
You must have watched the R&R demos at all the 4wd shows over the past 15 years!! I reckon he's still using the same rim and tyre and the bead's been broken a million times. While the R&R is relatively easy to work, its a little slower than your Tyrepliers, and for splits I'd prefer tyrepliers because you often have to work your way all around the tyre to get some clearance to get the split bit out. But I no longer use a beadbreaker. Highlift jack is way easier.

I use the "fat tubeless" tyres on my past 14 desert trips and about 20 Flinders trips and have had only one puncture. I think you've been driving on those high mileage tyres made for the Arizona desert!! I'll keep doing what I'm doing - might jinx myself and get half a dozen punctures next trip :-)))
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FollowupID: 528582

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 21:15

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 21:15
Yeah Phil

I cut one tyre out at Warraweena in 2006. That was on a track.

99% of my punctures have been off track excursions like the stuff that Davoe used to do for a living. Your 'fat tubeless' tyres are no good for that kind of country. Driving along made tracks or even in the very rough tracks at slow speed and you should not to get a puncture. Then again, your name may be 'Lucy' and you may get punctures at the drop of a hat...lol. Its a matter of luck and what type of terrain you are crossing,

In 1987 we did the north south crossing of the Simpson running BFG Muddies and din't score a puncture with two vehicles over 500km of off track driving. My mate Ron Moon did the Madigan that year with 10 vehicles and they scored 45 punctures all up. It is just amatter of luck ans where you put your wheels and ofcourse, the terrain has to play its part as well.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 528639

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 22:23

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 22:23
Hi Willem,
How did your MRFs go in the Simpson dunes north of the Twins? hehe
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 22:55

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 22:55
Willem,
My point is that there's no point in putting on a solid rubber crossply like the MRF if you can't get over the dunes. Having done most of the Madigan Line on two occasions since 2004, I would not attempt it on MRFs. Last trip we had 6 punctures amongst 6 vehicles; previous trip was 12 punctures amongst 7 vehicles. The only tyres that were not fixed with a simple plug repair were two split rim punctures, and one other on an F250 with 35inch tyres. Its a long way short of 45, so maybe tyres were not as good back in 1987? I just spent 6 weeks in the Pilbara - I've got a fair idea of what its like there, and our 3 vehicles had no punctures.

I'm sticking to 265/75 tubeless !!!! If you bought a better brand of tyre, you may have had a better run.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 528670

Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 07:41

Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 07:41
Now, now Phil, you are very choosy with the truth and yer not giving all the facts......lol. This in turn makes the reader believe that I am talking through the back of me head.

I had a 800kg trailer in tow over the dunes and had two sand bogs in very soft sand. This was my first excursion into desert travel with the MRF's. I will admit that the MRF's that I have dig in but 10psi applied pressure in the tubes saw me get out of trouble with relative ease. Beadell Tours run the MRF Super Miler in the desert and cross country treks and they report very few punctures(any tyre can get staked!). In 2006 I had no problems in the Simpson and 200km offtrack to the Geo Centre and back to the French Line with Coopers on the GQ at 15psi and Eldorados on the trailer at 8psi and only had one bog on the last dune before the K1 Line.

If I put you in the lead on my next offtrack adventure I wonder how long it would be before you sustained major sidewall damage???......lol

We seem to rehash this tyre crap time and trime again................hahahahahaha

Cheers
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FollowupID: 528692

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 09:37

Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 09:37
Hi Willem,
Thought you were going to say "time and TRIPE again" hehe

Like you, I'm having a bit of fun! But do you think you've been choosy with the truth as well????........I'll leave it there..........save it up for a campfire somewhere :-))))

Cheers mate!
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 10:02

Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 10:02
Time and Trime(or Tripe) waits for no one.,,,bloody typo's!!!

No Phil...you should know me by now...what you see is what you get.....lol

Cheers and have a nice day. If off to work on a Mosaic Project qat the local Art Centre now.
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FollowupID: 528716

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 18:30

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 18:30
Its pretty simple really
radial tyres sutable for road and tourist tracks are best off on a 1 peice rim to make plugging puntures a possability

crossply tyres suitable for out of the way off the beaten tracks etc are best off on a split rim to make removal and repairs easy
AnswerID: 266329

Reply By: Stu050 - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 19:07

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 19:07
I have never had an issue with split rims, they are my preferred wheel for bush work.

My current HZJ105 came with them as standard equipment.
AnswerID: 266337

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 22:01

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 22:01
Good to see Willem and Davoe have taken the bait....sorry I was a bit slow off the mark, but just got home from work :-))

I'm a tubeless convert. Got sick of fixing splits about 10 years ago, and had a couple of near rollovers on an old troopie when tubes let go on the highway.

Other experiences for and against:
- Skinny tyres on splits give better fuel consumption.
- Tubeless tyres wear less (less heat build up)
- Splits can be hard to remove a tyre but are dead easy to repair, reassemble and reinflate. Tubeless are very easy to fix - if you know how, but some sizes can be hard to reinflate.
- Splits on brand new vehicles are usually very good; on older vehicles flat tyres are common - usually from cheap tubes, dirt in tyre, pinched tubes, stickers etc etc
- Plugging tubeless is easy when you've been shown how - theres a learning curve, and using glue instead of that crappy lubricant makes a difference. In my experience, 80-90% of plugs give a 100% seal. If we don't get a seal with a couple of plugs, we put a radial patch on the inside.
- Tubeless tyres can roll off rims at low pressures. Usually happens to the less experienced drivers - cornering too fast on sand.
- Tubes can rip their valve out at low pressures on sand, but usually only if you drive it way too hard.
- Plugging tubeless on vehicle takes 10minutes, then you drive again. Replacing a split takes 30minutes, then another hour fixing it back at camp.

For a GQ patrol, my preference would be to get some 16x6 tubeless rims and fit the 235/85R16 tyres. But thats my bias!!
AnswerID: 266366

Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 07:53

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 07:53
Phil makes a VERY good point about CHEAP tubes causeing problems. I got a good deal on a full set of tyres, rims and tubes a while back. After 5 pin hole punctures on the maunfacturing seams on the tubes I have just changed all the tubes to a thicker name brand. I new the brand of tyres and rims but did not check what tubes were included in the original deal.

In my opinion the quality of your tubes is just as important as the quality of the tyres you are useing.
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FollowupID: 528506

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 08:19

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 08:19
Ahhh Phil....you have joined in on our favourite subject....hahahaha

Cheers
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FollowupID: 528509

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 18:18

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 18:18
Willem,
Wouldn't miss it for quids! :-))))
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 19:54

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 19:54
You kinda converted me Phill.
theres no doubt about those plugs (i have 2 in a front tyre ATM) and have plugged sidewalls etc.
hence my reply. decent tyres like the MTR can do well in a lot of situations with a few plugs.
.... but for bush/cross country work rags and splits come into there own. i certainly noticed the difference in kal bush with the MTR offering little resistace to the combination of more wood and harder ground than desert driving.
For alot of the trips i do closer to perth now they are fine and i havnt had the splits on since an ill fated Mt elvire trip
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FollowupID: 528611

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 11:02

Sunday, Oct 14, 2007 at 11:02
Those cheap tubes you speak of. have another disadvantage and that is patches dont seem to "vulcanise" too them, at first i thought it was just me or the glue but i have seen problems with them at other places with other people having the same problems.
I patched plenty of proper (michelin i think) tubes at one job with no patch malfunctions (well there might have been 1) and then moved to another job where they had the cheapies and was driven insane by constand slow leaks from the patches requiring rework
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FollowupID: 528726

Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 22:55

Friday, Oct 12, 2007 at 22:55
Interesting to read the advice of the experts above.

Its a question I've considered too.

I hired a car with splits a couple of times and was shown
how to change one. I think it would be easier to
carry a few spare tubes than a few spare wheels and tyres. It comes down to how likely are you to get a puncture, and if you do, will a plug fix it.

I got a bit overconfident with my Cooper STs having done 70,000 kms without a single puncture. I replaced two worn tyres in Kalgoorlie and within 300 km slashed a sidewall so badly that plugs wouldn't fix it.

But have just done 5000 km trip with no drama, including a fair bit ay 18 psi.

I also heard that the blind man at Windorah can repair a puncture on a split rim. I saw him repair a tubeless 2 days ago.

My mind is still open but continue to run STs for the time being.
AnswerID: 266372

Follow Up By: Member - Toytruck (WA) - Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 10:42

Saturday, Oct 13, 2007 at 10:42
Bob,
that bloke can do a lot more than change a tyre. He can do just about anything mechanical in that workshop.

Toytruck
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FollowupID: 528531

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