Dogs & Snakebites ??

Submitted: Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 18:32

ThreadID: 50753 Views:9783 Replies:11 FollowUps:10

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Shaker

Our Golden Retriever has a preoccupation with reptiles, wanting to kill them at every opportunity.
Around lunchtime today he was bitten during an encounter with a Tiger Snake, approx 750mm long.
Initially, he collapsed with a small quantity of blood in the foam around his mouth, later he gradually improved to the point where he can now walk & other than seeming a little lethargic he seems to be OK. I know snake venom is an anti-coagulant, but the blood may have been from a bite to the mouth, tongue or lips.

After hours numbers for Vets are an absolute waste of time, with either no response or a recorded message. My wife (I was at work) finally contacted a Vet, only to asked "will you be able to pay for treatment TODAY ?". When told 'of course we will pay' she said she would call back in 5 minutes, we are still waiting!
I will attend to her tomorrow!

My question is, does anybody have any first hand experience of dog snake bites, if so, is he likely to relapse?.

I know they are often fatal, but I have also read that some dogs recover & that some snakes after long periods of rest may have either, empty or only partially armed venom ducts.

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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:20

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:20

I understand that snake sometimes have a "2 strike" policy - the first is just a "warning" bite with little or no venom expelled, the second is the fair dinkum one with full pumping action.

Perhaps the "warning" bite was what happened to your pooch, which is why he's recovering.

AnswerID: 267696

Reply By: Rock Ape - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:22

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:22

Vitamin C injected into the dog works, have seen it done but can't give you the quanity to apply, was told at the time you can't overdose the dog and all that will happen is the dog will scower a bit.

AnswerID: 267698

Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:24

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:24

Should have also said you just inject it, not into a vein

FollowupID: 530074

Reply By: handy - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:28

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 19:28

Some dogs show symptons soon after the bite , other dogs it can take some time. You are looking at a min of $2000 for anti syrum and treatment. It will knock him around a bit but he should be right. cheers

AnswerID: 267700

Reply By: swampy66 - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:22

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:22

Shaker,

Keep ringing vets, even try the 24 hour vets in the cities. Your surely going to get some good advice sooner or later, im not sure your going to get much advice here.

Maybe a vet forum would be better than this forum.

Hope it all goes well,

Swampy

AnswerID: 267722

Reply By: Member - Stephen L (SA) - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:39

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:39

Hi Shaker,
Where we live here in SA, we do not have any tiger snakes in our area, mostly the common brown. Last year at this time of the year, snakes bites were very common, with a couple of people not surving from brown snake bites in Adelaide.

I asked a local vet about snake bites in pets, and he said that cats had a far better chance of survival than dogs. In a 1 week period, he had treated 10 cats and 4 dogs from brown snake bites.

All the cats survived and only 1 dog survived. Seeing that your faithful pet has shown signs of some recovery, I hope that he will make a full recovery.

All the best

Stephen

Smile like a Crocodile

Lifetime Member
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AnswerID: 267726

Reply By: Shaker - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:43

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:43

Thanks for the replies.

AnswerID: 267727

Reply By: Harry - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:44

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 21:44

This works:
VIT. C Injected or Orally

1/ If dog is groggy, look at eyes. Pupils look enormous.

2/ Inject into the side of neck in front of shoulder.
( just push in 8 to 10 mm and it will sting for about 30secs.)
18 ml for small dogs, 30ml larger 30kg dog
3/ 1 HOUR LATER give 2/3 of initial dose again (12ml)

The 1st dose is to stabilize the poison, the 2nd dose is to continue to detoxify. 2ml of B12 later will help with nerve damage.

Give some orally as well or use chewed up Vit. C tablets (3-5 tablets crushed)
Vit C works slightly faster than antivenin

Vit.C and B12 is available from Equine Supplies

AnswerID: 267729

Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 22:04

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 22:04

Thank you. It sounds to me like it would be a good idea to carry vitamin C on camping trips, if you take a dog.

FollowupID: 530114

Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 22:14

Sunday, Oct 21, 2007 at 22:14

Is the injection intramuscular or subcutaneous?

FollowupID: 530116

Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 07:42

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 07:42

Thanks for the amounts of Vit C to use Harry

Have a good on

FollowupID: 530150

Follow Up By: the mightyQ - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 10:07

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 10:07

Thanks Harry, I've heard of this before and that it does work. As most vets do not carry anti-venine this is a good option.
My brother recently tried to save his labrador, which had been bitten, the anti venine cost $600 but it was too far gone!
Whenever we've been to a snake display at country shows, the handler says that 8 out of 10 bites do not inject a lethal dose, so maybe the dog didn't get a lethal dose. We can only hope.

Sally
ps give the dog a hug for me

FollowupID: 530164

Follow Up By: Harry - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 20:54

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 20:54

I have 2 Jack Russell's so hunting is an activity 24/7 for them, consequently they have to be tethered most of the time when out and about.
I carry my Vit C and B12 in the fridge on all trips.
SHAKER, you trying to confuse the natives with them big words mate, just under the skin is fine. :>))
Lost 1 once when it was bitten by a mountain tiger, but found the bitch stone cold 20mins later, pretty upsetting, can't blame the snake though.
Interesting about the 8 out of 10 bites, thanks Q
Everybody ave a good 1

FollowupID: 530252

Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 20:59

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 20:59

Shaker, does that it makes him feel GOOOOOOOOOOD

FollowupID: 530255

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2007 at 08:57

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2007 at 08:57

I'll make it easy for you Rock Ape, under the skin or in to the muscle!

FollowupID: 530322

Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Tuesday, Oct 23, 2007 at 10:54

Tuesday, Oct 23, 2007 at 10:54

Under the skin

FollowupID: 530342

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 08:12

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 08:12

just to give it from a vets perspective my sister as a junior vet was often on call and soooo many calls at 2.0am went like this
(phone rings and wakes her up)
(them)My dogs really sick it doing XXX XXX
(her) how longs this been going on for
(them) 2 days now but he looks a bit worse
(her) you can bring the dog in its $50 call out fee
(them) ah ah ah erm what time do you open in the morning
goodnight

AnswerID: 267760

Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 10:21

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 10:21

Some good info in the previous answers. I can't add anything to the snake bite responses but maybe add a bit of useful info for helping pets when recovering from any type trauma. Try and keep them hydrated so that their normal body functions can metabolise any toxins. Squirt a mixture of warm water and Vegemite or Marmitre down their throats every half hour, about a tablespoon each time would be good.

AnswerID: 267773

Reply By: Smudger - Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 11:24

Monday, Oct 22, 2007 at 11:24

Shaker,
Hope your Goldie is OK. Thanks for posting this, we live in the bush (in the middle of Sydney) and see brown snakes around our house every year, and it bothers me that our dog will chase anything that moves. Being in the city we just assume that the Vet will fix it. But I've never seen the cost of anti-venom treatment. I've just done a Google and was knocked out. One woman spent $6,000.

I copied this from another site ..
"...This (vitamin C) has been discussed a few times, but the Vit C thing is actually correct (so its thought anyway). Its in my vet nursing notes that if something is bitten to give them Vit C. You dont have to inject it, you give it anyway you can, if you have tablets, crush them, mix with water and syringe into their mouths.... Luckily Ive never had to try it, but its impossible to overdose on Vit C and it can't cause any harm, so Id be willing to give it a go if it meant the life of a pet."

Concensus on this site was that Vit C is not a treatment, but should only be used as a stop gap until you get the dog to treatment. Most said that if the dog survives on Vit C alone, chances are it would have survived without it.

AnswerID: 267784