We have lost another Digger

Submitted: Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:05
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I have just heard on the news that yet another Aussie Soldier has been killed in Afganistan, the 2nd this month.

Not many details have been released as yet.

Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Reply By: 96 GXL 80 series - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:17

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:17
Hi Kev,
a very sad post.
Howard and his government should be held responsible.

They make these decisions so let them be accountable for there actions.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:23

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:23
What he said.
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Follow Up By: QLD Kev - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:28

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:28
As a returned Serviceman I can tell you that you are very naive and have NFI.

There is not one member of the Australian Defence Force that does not want to be on Operational Service.

To come out and say that the current government is responsible for his/her death is a load of bleep . To go to an area of theatre you have to be a volunteer.

I am still a member of the Forces and I am sick of people like you who have no idea as to the amount of blood, sweat and tears that we go through to be as highly trained as we are. To only have the current number of casualties that we currently have goes to show that the level of training is far superior to that of other highly regarded nations.

The work that is being carried out in Afganistan is to rebuild the nation after the Taliban etc have destroyed basic living conditions.

How about you think before you respond as you have done.

Kev
Russell Coight:
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:38

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:38
You may well hold the Howard Govt responsible. But I'm sure you are informed enough to know that on Afghanistan, the Labor Party policy is a mirror of the Coalition. A change of Govt will not change or commitment to Afghanistan. In fact it might increase.

A small number of posters here know how close to home this incident is for my family

Compassion for the soldiers family is all that is needed right now. Politics can come much later if you are inclined.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:42

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:42
Pull your head in 96GXL 80.

Did not the people of Australia vote Howard in???

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.



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Follow Up By: QLD Kev - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:44

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:44
Norm,

This would only start the flood of memories again for you and your family.

Give my best wishes to all.

Cheers Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: 96 GXL 80 series - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:48

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:48
equinox,
If you ask anyone who voted for him, they all tell you I didn't

And I am one that never and would not, so go jump.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:53

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:53
Nice One!!!
A bloke dies serving his country and you try to turn it into something political.....
Didn't you hear what the brother of the last deceased soldier read at his funeral!
"He wasn't sent! He wanted to go!

Try engaging your brain before your keyboard

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:19

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:19
96 GXL 80 and Brew69(SA),

Take your political crap and shove it where the Sun don't shine. To use this post as an opportunity to showcase your political beliefs shows you both up for the small minded souls you are.

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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:27

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:27
Alan only some people of Australia voted Howard in, and not enough to form a government (they have to join forces)

And Brew you got off lightly ... :-))

Cheers

And Kev he didn't can the forces, he just made a statement on a 4WD, camping & caravan web site forum..
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:53

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:53
Richard your splitting hairs, the government of the day governs for all and makes the decisions it makes based on the well being of Australia as awhole.
96 GXL 80 Series, you show a complete lack of understanding of the issue as awhole.

Agree with the above posts supporting our people over there and it remains a sad day for all Australians when we suffer a loss.

My thoughts remain with the soldiers family.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 01:24

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 01:24
Hi John

I do understand, but just because, is not good enough, if it was then all hell would break lose.

yes the loss of any life is sad, but not all of us pour our emotions out all over a, 4wd camping & caravan web site forum,

and just because we (the Royal we) don't agree, it's not to say we are wrong or don't under stand. OR ARE BAD people.

I have ex serviceman in my blood, know and have worked for many,

But over 3000 none serviceman die in Australian work places every year, and I do not see people announcing it on the forum (I may have missed one)..

But it is a sad day, that an Australian Defence Force person was killed in a foreign land for on just cause.... other than for..........

Regards

Richard


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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:09

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:09
Could have sworn this was a forum??? If Labor was in govt i would be blaming them. My opinion is we have no place being there. How is this disrespectable??? And Gramps and Qld Kev. Chill out guys and dont look further into something thats not there.
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Follow Up By: tryonreef - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:05

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:05
You are a disrespectful t_ sser mate.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:09

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:09
Good factual post tryhardbeefhead.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:27

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:27
Brew, I know you would be too, but blame isn't what is required. Rudd has supported the Afghanistan activity so he is just as much to blame. We all elected our parliament so some are trying to cop out here too. Nothing unusual in that.

GXL 80 series seems to lack any idea of accountability as both sides of politics support the Afghani action. She is just trying to make something out of what isn't
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Follow Up By: Member - R Send - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 08:33

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 08:33
Richard,

Can you please explain exactly what this means?

"But it is a sad day, that an Australian Defence Force person was killed in a foreign land for on just cause.... other than for.........."

I do try to work out what other people mean, but sometimes I just have to give up! Especiaaly when the statements are presented in a "fill in the missing blanks" manner.

I fail to understand the point of making these sorts of statements - you'd be better off keeping your hands off the keyboard!
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 13:05

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 13:05
"on" is ment to be NO. dam fingers.. ;-)
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Reply By: Footloose - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:21

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:21
I've got a relly in Iraq, and another one in Afganistan. The poor dead guy is Special Forces so it wasn't my relly.
Something tells me that we'll lose more young lives before we get out.
Old soldiers never die..
THE YOUNG ONES DO.
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Follow Up By: whyallacookie - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:27

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:27
I have a brother and 3 close friends over there, I hope it isn't one of them but at the end of the day they are in the military, it is there job.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:31

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:31
Any death diminishes me :((
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Follow Up By: QLD Kev - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:33

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:33
Footy,

I have already been on the phone to find out more info. It wasn't any of my mates that I have over there. But an SF guy that was providing protection for the Reconstruction Teams.

Cheers Kev

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He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:47

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:47
Kev, more at http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/25/2070673.htm
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Follow Up By: QLD Kev - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:53

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:53
Thanks Footy,

No doubt more info will be forthcoming in the next 24 hours.

Cheers Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:54

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:54
Hi Kev.
Our forces in Afganistan are really doing a great job.
I am sure that all the knockers would not like to suffer under the terrible Taliban forces.
It is such a pity that there is not a greater presence of european forces to help drive out these insurgents.
Cheers.
Vince
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Follow Up By: QLD Kev - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:00

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:00
I hear what your saying Vince,

But some people have wool over their eyes and carrots in their ears

Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: whyallacookie - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:05

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:05
They would rather pretend it "isn't their problem" doesn't directly effect them so who cares.

Of course sticking your head in the sand worked so well in the past, oh well some will never learn as long as they are all right.

Prayers to the families and friends.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:43

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:43
All these things have a cost , and I am proud of every one of those volunteers , and those that went before them in other conflicts.

Robin Miller
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Reply By: Ozboc - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:58

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 20:58
Vale sas guy :( and condolences to his family


Boc
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (Qld) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:58

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:58
Kev
Your follow up 2 was very well said , I feel no one could better your reply , , Thewre was also a couple of other good ones there too , good onya Mates .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Motorbike riding involves a level of risk. Each week in Queensland, at least one motorbike rider is killed and more than 15 are hospitalised. It's too many. Queensland Transport's motorbike safety campaign includes radio, television and outdoor advertising. This campaign is designed to encourage motorists and motorbike riders to share the road by looking out for one another.

Is John Howard responsible for these too ,

Doug
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Reply By: DIO - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:58

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 21:58
Soldiering can be a very dangerous profession. Those that choose such career go into it in the knowledge that possibly sometime dueing their period of service they may be called to serve in a hostile environment. Same applies to Fire fighters, Police, Miners (particularly underground) and I'm sure that there are many others you can include.
What greater glory for a soldier that to die for his country. Can't ask for more than that. As for the politics - nothing to do with it.
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Reply By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 22:00

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 22:00
Hi Kev,

Very sad news.

The attached recent speech from our Governor-General, His Excellency Major General Michael Jeffery AC CVO MC, himself a former SAS soldier, is an excellent insight to these wonderful group of men. Please do not let politics sour the work these men do, nor the respect that should be shown at such a difficult time for his family, friends and fellow troopers. Who Dares Wins.

GG SAS 50th Anniversary Speech

My condolences to his family.

Lest we forget.

Hugh
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Reply By: Member - Karl - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 22:57

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 22:57
After 23 years as a Reg and now a 'choco' I feel for him and his family. Everytime I hear that one of the fellas has been taken out or injured I immediately feel something as I have some mates over there as well.

We are a volunteer force and each and everyone of us knows the risk and we take it.

I am thank full that I came home at the end of my deployments and I wear my medals proudly because I earnt them the hard way.

Whilst none of my mates have been killed I have lost two to suicide who were unable to adjust after East Timor.

Remember Politicians make wars not soldiers - we only do our duty and we do it well.

If given another chance I too would love to go over there or any where else that we are currently serving and do my job - I love it. Even after getting out of uniform I still work for Defence as a civvy.

RIP digger.

Karl
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Reply By: Member - Roger B (VIC) - Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 23:15

Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 at 23:15
This extract is from the Defence Media Centre.

CPA 397/07 Thursday, 25 October 2007


SPECIAL AIR SERVICE SOLDIER KILLED IN AFGHANISTAN

An Australian soldier from the Special Air Service Regiment has been killed in Oruzgan Province earlier today.

The soldier was on a patrol when he was severely wounded by small arms fire from Taliban extremists.

Chief of the Defence Force Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston said other members of the patrol reacted to the incident by extracting the soldier from further danger and providing immediate first aid.

"A Coalition helicopter immediately responded to a call for assistance from the Australian patrol and evacuated the soldier to a nearby medical facility," Air Chief Marshal Houston said.

"Unfortunately, despite the best efforts of his mates and the aero-medical team, the soldier succumbed to his wounds."

Air Chief Marshal Houston said Defence was now doing everything it possibly could to support the family of the soldier and his mates in Afghanistan.

"We have recently informed the soldier's family and are doing everything we can to assist and support them through this very difficult time."

"This is a tragic day for the ADF and our thoughts are with family of the soldier, his patrol colleagues who did everything they could to save him, and the wider Special Operations community."

No other Australian troops were wounded in the incident. Further details of the operation will not be released as it is ongoing at this time.

Personal details of the soldier involved will not be immediately released at the request of his family. Defence, with the permission of his family, will seek to release further details about the soldier in the coming days.
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:20

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 06:20
lest we forget
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Reply By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:16

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:16
Kev, I really have tried to understand the level of professionalism that the forces of our nation display and I can say we all should be proud of their work. The work they have done in Timor, in Aceh, and Afghanistan as well as more recently Iraq has been extraordinarily professional.

We employed a young neighbour and I was particularly mindful of his work for us when I wrote his reference to join the Engineers. He too has grown into the level of prosessionalism. I admire it greatly and really regret the loss of our Digger. The Australian soldier is without peer in his profession.
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:24

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:24
So true John. My kids will be brought up the the utmost respect for them too as i was with my sisters. Too many people don't take time (even on Anzac Day) to remember and pay respect.
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Follow Up By: QLD Kev - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 09:05

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 09:05
John,

He joined a bloody good Corp,
I just don't like politics being bought into a thread that was supposed to bring recognition to the lost digger as well as all the others that are still serving our country throughout the world.

Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Reply By: Laura aka diver 1 - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:54

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 07:54
Im with Kev here. Its all fime to say that its the governments fault but you gotta remember that they have signed treaties with countries purely for protection,ie, either of them go to war and there will be back up - if govt say no to the Iraq war and refused to go and then we were attacked to a country - you would blame the govt for not going cos no one would come for back up...

They are a team,aust/usa/england....they are together for each other.....

Its a reality that the Aussie troops are in a dangerous place but they are doing their job and fine good job t that. I take my hat off to anyone that goes into a combat zone (yes you Zev....my hats off to you....) . This is why they joined in the first place - they knew exactly what they were doing and what chances there were about being called up for something like this.

I could ramble on and on....waffle...yeah lets waffle....LOL....Ill go onto bat for anyone in the defences.

I live in the town where the Sea Kings are at home (Albatross) and have a close friend who was there when one crashed killing all his mates....they do the best they can with what they got. Simple.

Kiwi
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Reply By: Wizard1 - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 08:55

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 08:55
A little perspective from a serving soldier.

We don't enlist and spend years and years training just to be bench warmers sitting here in doing exercises in Australia.

How would you feel if you spent several years training to be a tradesman and then to be told, "sorry mate its too dangerous to be a plumber".

A tragic as it is. These blokes die doing what they signed up and trained for. We all know the risks but just hope it won't happen. Just like the police. More cops are shot or killed than soldiers on operations overseas by an enemy.

We actually appreciate the opportunities given to us by the Howard Government to test our training and skills on real operations. Unfortunately there are risks and threats that the normal Joe on the street doesn't have to deal with.

More Aussies die on our roads in one year than soldiers have died on operations and training since the vietnam war.

The last thing we want is a bunch of tree hugging do gooders that don't understand our job to ask to "bring the soldeirs home".
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 12:27

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 12:27
Now that's a worry. I'm no pacifist and I support our armed services. But I would have hoped that our troops have the ability to think a bit about what they are being used for. "I just did it because I was ordered to do it" is the Nuremberg defence and we didn't think that was good enough back in 1945. We honour our troops, but when and how their skills and bravery are used is a political decision. For the record, I would support all our current troop commitments except for Iraq.
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Follow Up By: Zig-n-Zag - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 12:42

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 12:42
Wizard 1

As a parent of a current serving soldier (aged 20) who has had a stint in Afghanistan last year I concur fully with your words.

Whilst I may not like my sons chosen profession he and all his mates in the Defence forces have my 100% support and respect for the job they are doing.

I fully beleive he is safer in places like Afghanistan doing their role than he is in Australia on a Saturday night drive after a session in the pub/club.

Whilst my son has been in the forces for only two years he has matured greatly and has the respect of his mates in the Army and they all look after each other as an extended family.

Those who have not had relations or been in the forces need to get a reality check as to what is involved in the training and dedication to our Country.

RIP
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Follow Up By: Member - barbara M (NSW) - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 15:07

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 15:07
I am too a parent of a serving soldier and I feel for this soldier's family and his mates in his company as they would all be feeling his death. our son has been in the forces for 18 months and he is about to leave on his second deployment this one to Iraq and I am very proud of the way he has matured but the thing that impresses me most is the way the men in the forces support each other and how they care for each other. So I am sure the other members of his company would appreciate our thoughts and prayers as they deal with the death of their friend rather than expressing our thoughts on the validity of the conflict in which they are representing their country.
Hope this makes sense.
RIP Soldier
Barbara
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 15:44

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 15:44
Hi mfewster

The backbone of any military force is the discipline to follow orders handed down. Notwithstanding they are in line with appropriate and well laid down treaties. For this reason alone soldiers should never be called to account for the decisions of political masters nor should they be burdened by having to make value judgements on the decision of our politicians

The men and women serving our country in the middle-east are professional and highly disciplined. Their skill and bravery is entirely theirs and not linked in anyway to political decisions.

Only the decision to send them there is political and the Australian public has the chance to voice their opinion on our involvement in the middle-east at the upcoming election.

Zig n Zag and Barbara, I can only imagine how it must weigh on you to have one of your children in a theatre of war, but I’m sure you’re proud of them!

Good luck
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 16:15

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 16:15
I was taking issue with the following statements from Wizard1
"We actually appreciate the opportunities given to us by the Howard Government to test our training and skills on real operations. Unfortunately there are risks and threats that the normal Joe on the street doesn't have to deal with.
More Aussies die on our roads in one year than soldiers have died on operations and training since the vietnam war.
The last thing we want is a bunch of tree hugging do gooders that don't understand our job to ask to "bring the soldeirs home"

I agree that it is difficult for an army to operate, yet weigh up their orders (despite the Nuremberg trials which held that soldiers must take responsibility for their actions and cannot use the defence that they were just following orders.) If soldiers are not to to query orders, then it is non sensible for people to interpret every criticism of the wars our troops are in as a lack of support for our soldiers. ie, they can't query their orders, but if the public queries the basis of a war, that is seen as not supporting the troops. Therefore any time our government declares war the policy can't be questioned.
On one point I agree with J Howard. Australians need to study more history. If Australians, and JH, had looked a bit more closely at the history of Iraq we would never have sent our troops there. Afghanistan is a very different situation. Discussing what our troops are asked to do in our name is not an attack on our troops, it is our responsibility in supporting them.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 16:45

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 16:45
Howdy mfewster

I think we should all question internally and our politcal masters whether we should be involved in any conflict.

I certainly don't see that as not supporting our troops. However, that burden should never rest on the shoulders of a professional soldier. The chain of command is central to a well disciplined force and in many situations critical to their survival.

I don't think we are at odds here, just that I firmly believe that politicians answer to the broader community for our involvement, professional soliders' answer to their superiors and should never be called to defend the direction of our politicians.

Good weekend to you....

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Follow Up By: mfewster - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 17:38

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 17:38
G'day Landy
I don't think we disagree either. It was a couple of statements from Wizard 1 that bothered me.
A good weekend to you too
mf
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Reply By: Member - Roger B (VIC) - Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 23:02

Friday, Oct 26, 2007 at 23:02
I am also a retired ex regular soldier from the 60s/70s era, and have nothing but respect for the current ADF people. The following is a brief tribute to the soldier in question taken from the Defence Media List.


Department of Defence Media Mail List
------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPA 399/07 Friday, 26 October 2007


TRIBUTE TO SERGEANT MATTHEW LOCKE

The Chief of Defence Force Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston today paid tribute to Sergeant Matthew Locke who died yesterday whilst on operations in Afghanistan.

"Sergeant Matthew Locke was everything you would expect of an Australian soldier. He was courageous, dedicated and very professional. He took great pride in being an Aussie digger, displaying the characteristics of loyalty, mateship and determination for which Australian soldiers are renowned, Air Chief Marshal Houston said.

"Sergeant Locke died whilst working with our coalition partners and Afghan forces to drive the Taliban from their sanctuaries and create an enduring security presence in the area. Operation 'Spin Ghar' was to target and clear Taliban from the area around Tarin Kowt in Oruzgan Province.

"Sergeant Locke had extensive operational experience in East Timor, Iraq and Afghanistan and was one of the finest soldiers in the Australian Army.

"Sergeant Locke will be greatly missed by his brothers in arms. He was admired and respected by all who served with him. His energy, enthusiasm and sense of humour made him a popular figure in the Special Air Service Regiment.'

"In 2006, his courage was recognised with a Medal of Gallantry, one of the ADF's highest honours. With complete disregard for his own safety, Sergeant Locke braved heavy enemy fire to neutralise the Taliban advancing on the Australian position and in doing so saved the lives of his mates. His courage on that day was but one example of the extraordinary valour we have come to expect from the Special Air Service.

"The thoughts and prayers of the entire Defence organisation are with the family, friends and comrades of Sergeant Locke. We will do everything we can to support them through this difficult time," Air Chief Marshal Houston said.

Media Note: A photo of Sergeant Matthew Locke is available at http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/
AnswerID: 268555

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