Tyres over the last 3 or so years I have been reading threads about

No just a thought was reading the threads below and as I said above over the years coopers seem to have the most trouble and they still havent changed there product.

All the best
Eric

They also are arguably the biggest seller in the category, although there are no published figures to my knowledge.

They also have an "out there" guarantee and go anywhere proposition so attract the more serious users.

In my experience they also stand behind their product when approached rationally by balanced attitudes.

Cheers
Andrew.

Correct me if I am wrong but from what I hear Cooper's "guarantee" is no good if you go off-road (the purpose they are bought for), which is why they only offer it in the city, and if you do have a problem, the guarantee only credits you for a purchase of a tyre the same as the faulty one you just bought. I therefore don't see the sense in buying the product for more than you can buy other brands. Comparing the kms some people have told me they are getting out of other brands I just don't think the few extra kms justify the many extra $$$.

Yes, you are wrong. How about reading the Cooper guarantee yourself - go to a Cooper dealer or their website. Get some advice about what they offer instead of taking sound bites from here about how it works.
Cooper have the same statutory obligations as every product manufacturer, that their tyres are fit for purpose. They happen to go the extra mile with a guarantee of the mileage you will get if you look after your tyres properly for some tyres SOLD in capital cities, and if appropriate, in country areas too. Sounds like good practice to encourage proper tyre care to me.
Once you have read it you can assess the value to you versus whatever other brand you want to think about.
Regardless of what you buy, if you want good mileage out of it, look after it including rotate and balance, and adjust your tyre pressures for the circumstances.

Cheers,
Andrew who has not had to use the Cooper guarantee, and has got 108,000 under the current set of 6xSTTs (for which the guarantee is not available anyways).

Pretty obvious that Cooper tyres are supplying Vivid Adventures with tyres under a sponsorship arrangement to see such a rap for the crappiest tyre in the market today.

No sponsorship. Vivid Adventures pay for our tyres. That said, the local Cooper distributor does promote our business and we are happy to support theirs - we have had a good experience with them. We have had ATRs and STTs and do some hard yards - about 100Ks p.a. so our experience might be useful for some folks, and we are professional drivers. I presented verifiable facts and the tyres are there for you to look at. Steve from Top End put information up about his experience - are you going to question whether he is genuine too?

Intriguing that the crappiest tyre in the market also has one of the highest market shares - if not the highest. Present your minority report John - the facts, not biggoted hyperbole, but remember your experience is just another brick in the wall.

Where are the facts supporting your claim that Cooper have one of the highest market share?

The facts presented by users of this site support the point that more people have nothing but high tyre wear at low km's and high rates of side wall failure or staking issues with Coopers than we see posted on other brands.
Lets not start on the lug issues.

I'm in a 4wd club which has over 600 members, the only time we see Coopers is on the vehicles of new members when they first join who were unfortunately sucked in by the hyperbole and general bull$hit advertising expressed by Cooper.
Needless to say they very soon change to a different brand.

As said elsewhere in this thread, a warranty that you end up paying for replacement tyres is not a real warranty.

Also do a search of the posts and have a read of those who have had the famous Cooper warranty denied because they actually God forbid took the vehicle off road, failed to have the correct tyre pressue at all times (According to Mr Cooper) or failed to rotate the tyres (Causing the detachment of multiple lugs according to Mr Cooper) in other words any excuse they can use to mitigate the cost to themselves and bleed the consumer.

And without doubt my brick has been added to a pretty large wall of people who will never touch a Cooper tyre.

I said above there were no published figures on market share. If you wish to disagree then fine, but I see retailers who have the freedom to choose what they sell, continuing to sell Cooper - funny that. You'd think they'd be broke by now!

Most warranties have terms - nothing unusual in that. What is unusual is having a mileage warranty on tyres. If you don't like it don't buy it but don't rubbish those who do.

Cooper drivers are not welcome at your club - fine, that's your prerogative, but that's not a brick in the wall. That's just more bigotry. Likewise your assessment of Cooper's attitude to their customers doesn't correspond with mine but why the vitriole?

"Cooper drivers are not welcome at your club"
Sorry Andrew but Where did I say that?? Sounds like a bit of "Cooper Advertising" to me.

The simple fact is that they soon see that the tyre does not stand up to its claimed performance and when they try and take the argument up with the dealer they are offered the excuses listed in my previous response.

I have also retailed for near on 25 years (Not Tyres) and sold specific brands as opposed to my competition for a couple of very good reasons.
The main being that the wholesale price was better than others ensuring the margin was more conducive to selling their product over one with the obvious lesser.
They also limited the dealer arrangements to ensure they protected the distribution network, again allowing the margin to be preserved.

Simply speaking too many distributors means they cut the price to get the business over the competition, market the product as something special and exclusive and limit the dealers who toe the same sales line and the margin is better maintained for all.

I still vividly remember a particular brand in my industry that was marketed in Australia like this and it maintained the No 1 brand position in Aus despite it having the largest product return rate within the industry.
They did this by having a no argument return / warranty policy allowed for because the margin for both the wholesaler and the retailer was so good. In other words they could afford to do it.
The same product was rated at 14th in the list of most popular brands in the USA.
The Australian distributor just marketed the brand better here than the yanks did.

Sorry - Cooper drivers are gullible but welcome.

Perhaps the Victorian distributor doesn't have the same attitude to customer service as the SA and Qld distributors. I've not had anything to do with the Vic's. Perhaps the market share in Vic is lower too - I haven't paid attention to that.

Whatever, I've been in business a long time, and would think that they'd be broke by now if things were the way you make them out to be.

I hate changing tyres and if I needed to it would make my life miserable. I have schedules to keep as close as possible. Do you really think that in 3 Simpson crossings, a total of 47 days in the Kimberley, Anne Beadell, numerous Central Australia tracks - in all 108k's, probably 50:50 dirt:bitumen that I would persist with your alleged high tyre wear and side-wall staking? Crikey - I've only had two punctures and a couple of slow leaks.

They also are arguably the biggest seller in the category.
Thats beacuse they replace so many and thats then a new sale.

Just another thought.

All the best
Eric

"Blistering" of a sidewall is often classed as a manufacturing defect and within the terms of warranty for any tyre.

I had a complete set of Goodyear MTRs replaced prorata after two showed slight sidewall bulges.

A good friend had 2 Goodyear Silent Armours replaced with new tyres after a sidewall blew out.

In both cases, Goodyear asked what pressures we ran and how much load was in the vehicle, Both times we said we did desert trips and lower our pressures in sand. They then replaced the tyres immediately without any hassles.

"I get around 75000 - 80000km average"

'bout the same milage you get out of a 3lt motor hey!!! LOL

Cheers Stefan :)

I have the Goodyear Silent Armours in 265/75R16 - the amount of crap I have put the tyres thru - I am very impressed.

It is not about a "fault"... tyres wear out. It is just a simple proposition that is made to anyone interested. Cooper actually call it a warranty and as you can see from the link are quite clear about what it includes. If you like it, buy it. If you don't you know what to do. From what I can see, it is more than other manufacturers provide.

Do you have any guarantees or warranties on your brake pads?

Darian that is a very good point about the warranty why would you keep getting the same poor quality product.
They probably count the replacments as new sales.

We have had people a way with us after one trip to the cape which is about a 2500 k round trip from Port Douglas to Cooktown
No matter what type of cooper they look as if been on the 4x4 for ever.
Most noticeable is the amount of lugs missing.

All the best
Eric

"sidewall Blistering...Should not be a warranty issue"

Hi Fazz,
I tend to agree with you, but it seems like some tyre makers are willing to consider it a warranty issue and replace tyres that have that sort of damage, while others don't.

BTW, are "sidewall blistering" and "delamination" the same thing??

gotta say phill the pressures you were running i commented at the time they looked very much aired down.
your puncture record at the time spoke for itself but that was in the desert. certainly i had no probs when i met up with you running 28psi with no discenable sidewall buldge.
I run low pressures but only on soft sand for 100km max .
with the MTR I found the tread to be VERY strong but the sidewalls far less so with the worst puntures being suffered with low pressure and 100% OF Flats being copped in the sidewalls and shoulders. I wouldnt run low pressures in anything other than soft sand with these tyres to protect the sidewalls (same as most tyres) with the added bonus of not delamenating them with the extended pressure of low speed running

Gday Davoe,
You're right - I have tended to run pressures a bit low in the past. That trip in Oct 2005, we had 5 days straight of 40+ degree temps, and I was running 20psi on the Anne Beadell Hwy corrugations. We'd stop for lunch, and the tyres felt pretty hot - maybe that is where they were damaged. My thinking is that I'd rather damage a tyre than damage the car. Up until then I'd had a good run, with no punctures in 6 years. Only had one since.

I know you WA guys love to keep the pressures up, and the SA people like to let them down - maybe thats what needs to be done on the roads in each state? I spent 6 weeks in WA this year - must say that your gravel roads are way better than ours in SA - the gravel seems a lot finer in WA.

If you compare the MTRs to any other radial tyre, I think you'll find the sidewalls are thicker. Thats why you need to let more air out of them on sand, and why they build up more heat than others. Your experience with your set of MTRs is consistent with what you do with them. Many friends we go away with run them now, and they are a good desert tyre in our hands - both offtrack and offroad.

Where's Yalgoo? :-))

Yalgoo is about 250k East of geraldton. Has some interesting things like jokers tunnel which was an exploration tunnel right through a hill that is now full of crickets and bats
I actually am working South of there at Golden Grove currently
8 days on 6 days off----- Yea

Found Yalgoo and Golden Grove on the map! Looks like its well out in the donga there :-))

We passed thru Nullagine in August, but knew you weren't there. Had a nice trip where we took in Canning, Rudall River, Oakover River, coast from Port Headland down to Exmouth, Mount Augustus, central Pilbara and then back to the Canning, Wiluna, Kalgoorlie, Esperance, Cape Arid and Home. Some magical places.

Cheers

And to to add fuel to the fire, I think a lot of problems (in WA at at least) are caused by the airing down fixation of some folks.

I air down on dirt roads but reduce my speeds never over 80ks per hour Front 20psi rear 24 psi

If I travell on fast dirt roads the presures are higher around 26 front rear 30 depending on loads.

All the best
Eric

From my point of view I'd say 20psi and 80kmh for anything over a few minutes is a delamination just waiting to happen.

BUT..........

It obviously works for you so that's all hunk dory as far as I'm concerned. No arguments here and each to his own.

Which leads me to my next important point..........

Another thing that is all to rarely taken into consideration is the VITAL factor of location. Now we are possibly as far away from each other as you can get in this vast country Eric, so it's an apples and oranges comparison as far as I'm concerned. That's where half the arguments start and both sides can be right and both wrong at the same time. My rule of thumb for WA applied in the Cape simply wouldn't apply.

For example, a Victorian raving about his MTR's is on to a good thing in the High Country, however get him out in some off-track work in the remote northern goldfields of WA and he'll be walking home by the end of the day with no sidewalls if he's not super careful. By the same token, take the exploration ute from WA and put it in the High Country and it will be sitting at the bottom of the first hill with its split rims and highway pattern cross-plies spinning uselessly and with absolutely no hope of getting anywhere.

It's horses for courses. Simple as that.

These tyre pressures are what I use and have done for a fair while now.
These are cold pressures and when the tyre heats up you can add about 4psi to these low pressures ,
When I say I drive not above 80k per hour that may be only for half an hour or so.
I have done the same for about 20 or so cape trips and touch wood not a problem to date.

The rubber I am using at the moment are 2 wrangler mtrs and 2 maxxis bighorns these are rotated as a pair. Size 32x11.5x 15


All the best
Eric

V8Diesel,
You're absolutely right - its horses for courses.

WA roads seem to have much finer gravel than the sharp rocks we have here in SA, and the road maintenance is better - especially those leading to a mine or aboriginal community.

You got that right phill.
While it has been quite a few years since i trundled the roads on the Eyre penninsula and they may have improved.
WA Dirt roads absaaaaalutly crap all over SA dirt roads wheather it be in the goldfields or the weatbelt or the desert.

I was cruising the wheatbelt between Scaddon and Condingup heading to Cape arid while it was belting down.
I thought to myself this reeely highlights the difference driving on a biltup sheeted all weather gravel road that might as well be bitumen.
Compare this to playing footy and having to drive from wudinna to Elliston.
potholes, 4 inches of gravel and if it had been raining the main topic of conversation (If you made it to Elliston) was how many times you lost it in the clay and went up the bank.
Also As i told you we dont have corragated roads in WA

If you believe their advertising Brew they are the star on top of the Christmas tree when in fact experience tells us they are just one of many silver balls on a lower branch :-))
Cheers Craig..........
MTR's