Which Soft 4WD to choose?

Theres a couple of guys who drive the Forester on the Overlander forum and im sure they would be happy to help.

gday tony
dont know much about the xtrail but nissan build good cars
the forester is a very capable 4wd in its range both have limitations which you will only find out when you use it as only then will you be able to compare effectivly it suitabilty to your needs i asume that you are buying new rather than second hand
if so be carefull with your chioce becauceonce you drive it off the show room floor the resale value takes a dive so if you dont like what you buy you may not get your money back for it, may be worth looking second hand 1 or 2 years old & let somebody else take the loss of $$$ you may also be able to get into one of the bigger more capable 4wds , but just atip what ever you buy go do a4wd training course the it will not only save your life but will save you big $$$ as you will not be so easy to miss leed in whats what of 4wding
Regards Bruce

Tony
Think carefully about it your choice as once you start 4x4ing it is very easy to get hooked and then you will be wishing you bought something that was more capable. Trust me I am going through the expensive exercise of upgrading now. But if you want my cents worth go the one with the dual range gearbox, at least then you can go up and steep inclines.
Cheers
AK

Tony

Have you considered the Jeep Wrangler? Probably one of the most capable (off-road) compact 4wd. Not a soft roader at all as it has good low-range, clearance and other features missing in soft roaders. Same price range as the xtrail and forester.

Some people say spare parts for jeep is expensive, so you may have to check this out.

If kids is not in the equation yet, and long trips to the outback will be a few years from now, then the jeep is a worthy consideration.

I agree with AK, once you're in you're hooked. Get something that is very capable now, an easily upgradable once you want to get serious.

Thanks Guys you've made me think about about a few issues and considerations that never entered my mind. This is getting to be a hard decision and from what I heard from you all, a decision not lightly to step into. The depreciation is always a factor and buying second hand can be a risky situation in some cases as well. I will definitely do a 4WD training course and visit this forum and website regularly as there's a fair to bit to learn. As far as the Jeep Wrangler goes - the soon to be family situation in a couple of years prevents us from going down that path - thanks.

Again thanks for your help.

Tony.

Does it HAVE to be new?

As others have said once you are bitten, you will want to deeper into the bush and stuff.

Low range to me is somethign a 4b MUST have. Simple as that, YMMV.

It may be a hard decision now, but once you make it and sitting round your first camp fire with a few ales, it all seems to have been easier.

There are SO many 4b's out there that I'd hate to be buying another(well it would be a GU 4.2 TD Auto ST but they dont make em).

Your talking new, but for that money you could get a VERY good second hand 80 series with loads of extras, a GU with loads of extras, GQ, Jackaroo, etc etc. any of these will wee on a X trail, or Forester. But all depends on your lifestyle. If your not the outdoor type then the Xtrail might be you. but 1 thing,DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU SEE ON THE COMMERCIAL.

Personally I wouldnt buy a new car of any form. Paying $40-50k on something that WILL get scratched or dented to me is insane.

Get something value second hand and then its not so bad, as you dont have to pay so much to get more.

Before you buy an AWD consider what you are going to do with it and make enquiries with the guys who run off road training. Vic Widman at Great Divide Tours would, I am sure, help you. I consider if these guys are training people to drive them they will know their capabilities. Do not be fooled by the TV adds or by salemen. I have a friend with an Xtrail and one day he wanted to borrow my box trailer to take some rubbish to the tip. It was parked on dirt and it meant he had one wheel on the dirt, one in the gutter and two on the road. It was raining and a slight uphill pull. The wheel on the dirt started spinning and that was it. I do not know why the other three wheels did not pull him out. So much for AWD.
The other thing to consider is storage space. The Xtrail seems to have a reasonable amount of space but the Forrester not a lot. If you are off camping every bit of space helps and unless you buy a Cruiser or Patrol the smaller 4WD are not as big in the back as a Falcon station wagon.
I have a Frontera which suits my wife and I and goes where the big boys go. I can forget however going where the big boys go if I am on my own because I cannot carry all the gear they do, especially recovery gear.
Some thing else to consider is what after market gear is available for it. AWD's and 4WD's generally have a lot of money spent on them to really make them go where the average person with a 4WD wants to go. For example I would like a snorkle for the Frontera. No one makes one. I can fit a second battery but then I cannot fit a heat exchanger for a shower. If I fit a drawer system it will cost $2500 for two _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx and a fridge slide because it will special. You will be amazed how after a few trips these sorts of things become a must.

Agree with most of the above.

I think the Forrester is a better occasional offroader then the X Trail. I know of someone who has one and it would surprise folks the places it has gone.

The 4by bug is very addictive. Once bitten you will NEVER go back. If you don't wont a full blown 4by (like a Cruiser or Patrol), have a look at something like a Jackaroo, Prado or Pajero. Quite capable offroad, and drive very well on road.

Is there a reason you aren't looking at the Suzuki Grand Vitara? Maybe not quite as refined onroad but certainly much more potential to go offroad. Seperate chassis and a proper low range where as the Forrester although a very good vehicle only has a slightly lower range and that is only available on the manual. Also a lot more in the way of accessories to build a very capable offroader.

Thanks again guys,
Wow where do I go from here? I think a little more research is required and yes Richard I will talk to the guys that instruct in off-road training - good idea. I spoke to couple of mates who put me onto this web site and all they could say was "I told you so." They too have commented on 2nd hand vehicles and also to check out the Vitara as "projects" was talking about. With a little more investigation, a closer look at what is on offer and listening to what you guys have to say I think I'm now in a better position to make a more informed decision. I've just been showing my fiance' the comments that have been generated and she's got the 4WD bug really bad now. I'm thinking I might just have to look around for 2nd hand diesel patrol or landcruiser (also thinking about fuel costs considering I spend close to hour everyday in Sydney traffic?).

Thanks.
Tony.

All the softroaders suggested are good cars, however as this is to be a stepping stone car, then depreciation should be a factor, as really it will add to your costs at the end of the time.

The forester is a good unit, is hard to drive the price down, but have seen some good deals on almost new units, at 150 kms ex Suburu Australia.

We drove the X trail, and was disapointed with it power/torque, but then to be fair we were looking to tow a pop top.

I have found the best way to establish value, is to do a spread sheet, where you list against each make its features, particulairly the ones that are important to you.

I think in the main you will get what you pay for, but the spread sheet will enable you to focus on the units that meet your needs.

Now if the X trail and Pathfinder, were available new here with diesel, that would have changed our focus.

Best of luck, I think in the main, that most 4WD are good products, it is a matter of tailoring the one that suits you and your budget.

Regards

Col Tigwell

Hi Tony
You seem to have gotten a lot of advice on your query but no-one has mentioned beach driving yet. Here are my experiences. In short, Xtrails are usless on the beach. I spend most summers up at Double island point/Rainbow beach area. And every day I pull a soft 4WD out of the sand. On the actual beach they are fine below the high tide mark (but so is a Commodore). But going through the cuttings to and from the beach they are absolutely useless. I have pulled these things out going uphill, downhill and on the flat, I don't know how they get bogged going downhill, but they do. If they do get going on the soft sand and stop, they are stuffed, can't get going again,bogged to the floorpan. These things get bogged in places where I can stop, get out, have a look, drive around them, stop again, reverse up, hook up a snatch-strap and reef them out. And I drive a 1993 2.6L twin cab Rodeo which most guys here would agree is not a powerhouse. The problems with the soft 4WD's are, not enough gears, not enough power, not enough ground clearance and they are always sold with useless road tyres on them. But they may have a very nice cup holder to make up for it. They are marketed as great go anywhere vehicles but don't believe it, if it ain't got low range don't get it. One other thing, have you noticed how people don't offer assistance to breakdowns on the road anymore? Well its getting like that on the beach too! Two years ago I stopped for a bogged Ford Escape on a flat section of soft sand. Up to the floorpan going no-where bogged. By the time I stopped he had been there for an hour and everyone was just going around him. His wife actually asked a bunch of blokes fishing nearby for some help and they replied that if they were stupid enough to get stuck then they could get themselves out. A bit of digging and two yanks on the snatch-strap and he was out. Twenty years ago if you got bogged everyone would stop, not anymore. Tony, for the thirty odd grand that an X-trail would cost, you could buy a great secondhand low k's "real" 4WD.
Best of luck with your car hunting, and welcome to the off road.
Johno

Diesel engines are really the way to go. However a second hand truck would be a good buy, if it has been serviced correctly.

The Patrol is like all cars, it has its short comings, but in most areas are much stronger than its competition.

Diesel engines long term do not like being negleted, and you would be wise to check, that oil and filter changes have been done correctly. The 3 litre engine according to Nissan, is also a bit finicky on oil type, if I recall correctly it needs a CF type oil, as Nissan are keen to hold the soot solids in suspension. Oil changes on the engine are normally 10,000 intervals, but as soon as you get into severe service, which most off road work is, it drops to 5000 kms.

The Forester is a long life motor car, if serviced correctly, and should be much cheaper to run, than a full sized 4WD. You really need to talk to people who own the types of cars you have interest in.

The 3.0 litre turbo is only a fairly new car, and the high milage on it, should not deter you, unless it has been negleted. I suggest a proper mechanical inspection, and not through the NRMA, is the way to go. In your area there should be people who can check, and would have the knowledge to do a proper job. Often the underneath of the car will tell the true story. Old oil leaks not fixed. bashes and scrapes to the underneath, damaged exhausts, all tell the story of a hard life.

The Patrol is a strong 4WD, stronger than many of its competitors, but it does not suffer neglet gladly. Look at the exterior of the car, is there damage to the bodywork, and on the inside look for "tarting up", interior neglet and damage, indicates that the rest of the car may have suffered the same fate.

At that milage, the car should be fairly well priced, and should work out cheaper than the Forester, however the Forester should be much cheaper to run, and if new, will come with a long warrantee.

Hope it all works out for you.

Regards

Col