Insurance for 4WD imports - anyone know a good deal out there ?

Submitted: Monday, May 26, 2003 at 10:11
ThreadID: 5117 Views:2069 Replies:7 FollowUps:12
This Thread has been Archived
The hassle of insurance with a Grey import, last year thru TCIS (Tread Lightly) I paid $681 for my Toyota Surf KZN185 97 model with a 35yr old driver with 60% no claim - anyway now they say the premium has gone up some where just over $1000 - OUCH.
I know people will say that is the penalty for getting an import but I had a good deal last year.
Can anyone assist with a insurance company please ??????
PS. Off road coverage would be desirable but will consider non offroad use and just be careful offroad.Cheers, Beddo
Surf KZN185
<- Yengo NP, Central Coast NSW
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Reply By: Member - Rohan K - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 10:25

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 10:25
Beddo, try the specialist insurer Shannons. I don't know if they cover 4x4s but I'd be surprised if the don't - do virtually any other unusual or non-standard vehicle.Life just ain't that serious.
Rohan (Sydney)
AnswerID: 21049

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 10:45

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 10:45
Thats standard with TCIS now, most are rising 40-70%... Last year is gone..

Sad but true.

Personally I think thats insulting to raise someone who is 35 AND 60% NCB to that sort of figure.

what ever happened to user pays? If you dont crash, why should you get screwed more?

Insurance companies, right up there with banks, cops, lawyers, Politicians, rapists, childmolesters, and priests in my books.

Nothing on the Surf List with options?
AnswerID: 21053

Follow Up By: Peter L - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 12:42

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 12:42
Truckster, curious that you lists Priests seperately from Child molesters - do they qualify even if not a child molester?

Curiouser & curiouser
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FollowupID: 13643

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:53

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:53
Ask Hollingworth. or the other ones in history that were covered up that are popping up lately.....

YMMV
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FollowupID: 13710

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Anne - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 14:57

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 14:57
Hi Jeff,
We have the MU insuranced through Australian 4WD Insurance,cost $530 a year and that's off road as well, plus you can pay by the month from your bank a/c. Their phone no is 1800 800 471. hope this is of some help.
Bruce.Looking forward to the end of June,
Darwin via Lawn Hill-Borroloola.
AnswerID: 21085

Reply By: Dozer - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 15:21

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 15:21
Try 4wd insurance (old b.r.a )1800800471
Andrew ($628 26k last week)
AnswerID: 21091

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 16:46

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 16:46
Jeff, Dozer, Bruce and Anne,

Are you a member of any four wheel drive clubs?? CHECK with your insurer that YOU ARE COVERED during 4WD trips with the club. GET IT CLEARLY AND CONCISELY STATED IN WRITING!!!! You only get what you're paying for...if you are not paying much........

Just been through the runaround with AAMI

Sorry in advance for the long entry, please read from bottom to top. Personal details and non relevant information edited:
-----------------------------------

Dear Mr Camp***,

Thank you for your email.

Your email and comments have been passed onto the relevant Manager, who will discuss the issue at the next customer relations meeting.

Kind Regards,

David Button
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Camp** [mailto:gkcamp**********]
Sent: Monday, 19 May 2003 7:54 PM
To: AAMI
Subject: Re: Email AAMI Camp*

Dear Andrea,

Please forward this link on to your Management team, from a forum run in W.A.

http://www.exploroz..com/Forum/View.asp?ForumQID=5001&Page=%2FForum%2FDefault%2Easp%3FDisplaySet%3DActive%26PN%3D1

Independent verification that these training days ARE being run by clubs affiliated with the ANFWDC.


I look forward to hearing the results of your Management teams' review of 4WD policies. I believe the policies have been a victim of a series of "one-off" decisions based on the increased number of 4WD accidents (related to the higher market share that the 4WD sector now has), rather than the actual cause of these accidents (poor training in vehicle driving characteristics).

I would be very interested in being kept up to date with what transpires and hope it can come to a productive conclusion.

Regards,

Gary Camp***


----- Original Message -----
From: AAMI
To: Gary Camp***
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: Email AAMI Campbell

Dear Mr Camp****

Thankyou for your email and feedback. Your email and comments have been passed onto Management.

Regards,

Andrea Roza
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Camp***** [mailto:gkcamp**************]
Sent: Sunday, 18 May 2003 10:34 PM
To: AAMI
Subject: Re: Email AAMI Camp**

Dear David,

So what you are saying is that your company is prepared (or at least see the value in) giving a discount to members of a 4WD club who undertake the recommended 4WDer training provided by their covering association (ANFWDC), as long as the policy holders do not partake in any 4WD club trips, at which the instruction and courses are run? Individual clubs have accredited teachers that accompany novice drivers and provide the instruction at both special introductory series of days organized by the ANFWDC, and also regular club trips, the process is ongoing. The proceeds LESSENS the likelihood of claims being made in the future. (remember the "Mum's taxi" incidents...)


Could you please get the manager that you referred my previous email to read the above, and explain his logic in encouraging club membership (required to get ANFWDC accredited training) and not covering club outings (at which the training is given)?

This is unfortunately beginning to sound like middle management meddling, without the necessary thought being given to the overall situation.

Regards,

Gary Camp***.
----- Original Message -----
From: AAMI
To: Gary Campbell
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: Email AAMI Camp*****

Dear Mr Camp**,

Thank you for your reply.
I have reviewed your quotation and referred it to a Manager. Due to the information you have provided, unfortunately we cannot offer you adequate cover for your 4WD club trips.

You will need to contact a specialist insurer to assist you. Please click on the following link to take you directly to the Yellow Pages Web site http://www.yellowpages.com.au/ to search for other insurers in your State.

However, your suggestion regarding a discount to owners and drivers who complete an accredited 4WD driver training course has be forwarded to the relevant department for their perusal.

Regards,

David Button
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Camp*** [mailto:gkcamp*************]
Sent: Saturday, 17 May 2003 3:35 PM
To: AAMI
Subject: Re: Email AAMI Camp***

Dear David,

Please read the original wording of my questions:

"4. Is accident damage that occurs at a 4WD park or other such private property, such as Boat Harbour 4WD Park near Kurnell, or crown land such as state forests and declared wilderness areas such as Fraser Island (subject to appropriate permits being held) covered under comprehensive car insurance?

5. Is accident damage that occurs during a 4WD club trip covered?"

Question 4 (4WD parks), pertains to privately held land (usually old farming areas) that have privately maintained 4WD trails available for use (usually for a fee) for recreational purposes. The vehicle is not "being used or tested in or for a race, trial, test or contest", nor is the 4WD park a "competition circuit, course or arena" although they do run events similar to the "Warn Winching Challenge" from time to time on the properties. My use of the facility would be simply non-competitive recreation and camping.

National Parks and Crown Land are maintained by State or Federal Governments. Once again the vehicle is not "being used or tested in or for a race, trial, test or contest", nor is the land defined as a "competition circuit, course or arena", except for events such as "Targa Tasmania". Once again, my use of the land areas would be simply non-competitive recreation and camping.


Question 5 pertains to membership of clubs and the effect (if any) of coverage of accidents occurring in areas described in Question 4 (and enroute to and from these areas) during a club outing. The club I am a member of is affiliated with the ANFWDC and adheres to its charter. These outing are of a purely social, recreational and non-competitive nature between like-minded individuals.

I am simply trying to get a "Yes, you are covered" or "No, you are not covered" answer on my coverage to the two above questions.


All care is taken during these outings. Likewise the reason for being in a club is if you do get into trouble there are people around to assist you (and tow you out if necessary), "safety in numbers". The vehicle is also my "daily driver" so I'm not about to take undue/foolish/irresponsible risks with it.

------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note, there may be some merit in insisting that the owners and drivers of 4WD's undertake an appropriate accredited 4WD driver training, such as made available though the ANFWDC. There would not be one genuine recreational 4WDer that would object to doing this. It would serve several purposes:

1. Increase the awareness about issues related to the higher centre of gravity and lower traction of the tyres.

2. It would discourage the "mums taxi" mentality in the city (if done on a larger scale by the insurance industry).

3. The improved education would result in less claims.

4 Basic recovery techniques and safety issues can be taught, reducing or eliminating some of your recovery costs.


In the ideal world most recreational 4WDers would like to see a drivers licence endorsement system put in place similar to the HR and Semi drivers licence endorsements. I would hazard a guess that most of you claims from 4WD vehicles occur in the city by female drivers within 200 metres of shops/schools ("mums taxi"), and that unfairly biases the rest of the recreational 4WD community.

How about offering a discount to owners and drivers who complete an accredited 4WD driver training course, similar to what some companies do for advanced driver training courses? This would be a win-win situation, and I am certain would be supported by the ANFWDC.


ANFWDC website http://www.anfwdc.asn.au/

I thank you for your time, and hope that you will consider or forward my comments on the relevant area of your organisation.

Regards,

Gary Camp*.


----- Original Message -----
From: AAMI
To: Gary Camp**
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Email AAMI Camp***

Dear Mr Campbell,

Thank you for your email.
AAMI will not cover your vehicle if it was being used or tested in or for a race, trial, test or contest or if the vehicle was being used on a competition circuit, course or arena. There are no special specifications for insuring 4WD vehicles. We anticipate that the driver does take all reasonable precautions to secure the safety of the vehicle.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to email us. Or alternatively, you can speak to a customer service representative on 13 22 44, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Regards,

David Button
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Camp** [mailto:gkcamp**************]
Sent: Friday, 16 May 2003 3:10 PM
To: AAMI
Subject: Re: Email AAMI Camp******

Dear Lee,

Am I to assume that the answer to all of my original questions is about coverage is "yes", more specifically my questions 4 and 5 about private land, Crown land, national parks, and also damage occurring on ANFWDC affiliated four wheel drive club outings.

I will state that I will not take part in timed trials, competitions, or race circuit as per your policy.

Thank you for your assistance and clearly defined policies. It's enough to give insurance companies a good name ;-)

Regards,

Gary Camp***
----- Original Message -----
From: AAMI
To: Gary Camp**
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: Email AAMI Campbell

Dear Mr Camp*******,

Thank you for your reply.

I apologise for the confusion and the delay in this response.

AAMI are able to cover you vehicle under the policy.

I have set up a new quotation for you, the quote number is QTE *** *** ***, the premium is $878 and the Agreed Value is $22,000.

If you were to use your vehicle for 4WD driving purposes you will be fully covered under the AAMI policy as long as you were not involved in any competition or race circuit.

Please note that due to the modifications no driver under the age of 25 will be covered to drive the vehicle.

Once again I apologise for the confusion.
AAMI will need to reconfirm all details of your quotation prior to commencing cover. To arrange this cover, please call us on 13 22 44 and a customer service representative would be more than happy to assist you. We are available, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to email us.

Regards,


Lee Johnston
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Camp****** [mailto:gkcamp**************]
Sent: Friday, 16 May 2003 9:33 AM
To: AAMI
Subject: Re: Email AAMI Camp***

Dear Lee,

I believe there may be a bit of a mix up.. I do own the Australian (civilian) model Kia Sportage that is (or was) available from the normal Kia retail network. My reference to the Military KM42 was meant as a reference for you regarding the fact that they share the same running gear), not unlike the military and civilian versions of the Land Rover and Hummer. (main reference was to show that the chassis and running gear were designed for larger tyres than what are supplied on the civilian chassis.)

Stated absolutely clearly....I own a domestic model 2002 Kia Sportage purchased from new from ********* in ***********, VIC on the *** of January 2003. I do not own the Military KM42 model.

Does this change/clarify the picture?

Thank you for you honest reply,

Regards,

Gary Campbell

----- Original Message -----
From: AAMI
To: Gary Camp***
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Email AAMI Campbell

Dear Mr Camp*****,

Thank you for your reply and the opportunity to discuss your concerns.

The suspension and wheel modifications that have been made to your vehicle are accepted under the AAMI guidelines, which is why the AAMI representative would have advised this. The website also accepts these type of modifications.

The concern AAMI have is the modifications to the running gear and that it is not consistent with the standard model on Australian roads but is standard with the KM42 Military vehicle which AAMI would not cover, due to this AAMI will not offer you insurance on your vehicle.

This has been referred to an AAMI assessor who has advised that we would not be able to repair this vehicle in the event of a claim.

We would prefer, as I assume you would, you knew about this before your policy commenced rather than in the event of a claim.

Regards,



Lee Johnston
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Camp***** [mailto:gkcamp]
Sent: Thursday, 15 May 2003 11:03 PM
To: AAMI
Subject: Re: Email AAMI Camp

Dear Lee,

The modifications that I specified are all commercially available "bolt ons" and do not permanently alter the vehicle in any way. They are removable and transferable without any evidence of them ever being fitted. They involve no more than the use of spanners and screwdrivers, no additional holes or panel cutting of any sort is required. Your company website allowed the quote to proceed with the modifications described, and I also phoned one of your customer support personnel (transferred to a relevant staff member on the phone) who confirmed that the modifications were allowed.

My question is simple, what changed? You expect ABSOLUTE disclosure, you got it. I am simply asking for the same absolute disclosure for the reasons for your company's about face.

Regards,

Gary Camp***.
----- Original Message -----
From: AAMI
To: gkcamp***********
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Email AAMI Camp****

Dear Mr Camp*****,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately due to the modifications made to the vehicle we are unable to offer you insurance.

The reason for this is that in the event of a claim we may not be able to provide you with adequate coverage and we may also not be able to repair the vehicle to its current condition.

To assist you in gaining insurance you may wish to contact Just Car Insurance on 13 13 26 or at www.justcarinsurance.com.au

If they are unable to assist you Fortis who specialize in 4WD may be a better option, they can be contacted on 03 9869 0269.

Regards,

Lee Johnston
AAMI eBusiness
aami.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: AAMI.com.au Web Site [mailto:aami@aami.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 15 May 2003 2:27 PM
To: AAMI
Subject: Email AAMI Camp****


From: Gary Camp*****
Email: gkcamp************

Message : Dear Sir, I am presently looking around at insurance for a (soon to be modified) 2002 Kia sportage. I have recieved a quote from your website (your ref: QTE *** *** ***) and I wish to get in writing the answer to a few questions on the extent of your cover prior to acceptance of your quote. 1. Spring lift 2.5" OK? Fitted by Ironman Suspensions in Victoria (manufacturers 2. Body lift 1.6-2" OK? 3. Tyres up from 205/70R15 to 31-33" diameter on suitable rims OK? (Note that we have the running gear of the KM42 series military vehicle (on www.global.kia.co.kr , Others -> Military vehicles -> KM 42 series - have a look at the specs-> Kia sportage chassis and running gear.) Note the standard 235/75R15 tyres) With the above lifts C of G height to track width remains the same therfore should not present any more of a rollover risk than presently exists (rated to handle a 45 degree slope in military form). 4. Is accident damage that occurs at a 4WD park or other such private property, such as Boat Harbour 4WD Park near Kurnell, or crown land such as state forests and declared wilderness areas such as Fraser Island (subject to appropriate permits being held) covered under comprehensive car insurance? 5. Is accident damage that occurs during a 4WD club trip covered? I would hope that you as a company understand that most 4WDs are modified to PREVENT damage occurring, and this is my intention for the modifications. I would like the situation clarified before I find out the hard way. Thanking you in advance for you time, Regards, Gary Camp*****

---------------------------------------

I could have gone on club trips not knowing that I wasn't covered..........

This is a warning to all, IF YOU DON"T ASK THE HARD QUESTIONS AND GET THE ANSWERS EXPLICITLY STATED IN WRITING, THEN YOU ARE PROBABLY NOT COVERED! I used AAMI as an example, but have yet to find one, other than TCIS, that covers 4WD club trips EXPLICITLY in the insurance policy.



AnswerID: 21105

Follow Up By: Member - Rohan K - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 17:07

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 17:07
Gary, truly bizarre! So they'll cover you when 4wd'ing if you are alone (higher risk), or in the company of others (as long as you and those you are with, are not associated in the manner of a "club"). I wonder how they would prove it was a club trip if there were no written records of formal arrangements? If you and some fellow club members go 4wd'ing, but its not an "official" club trip, you're covered?

Good grief.Life just ain't that serious.
Rohan (Sydney)
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FollowupID: 13668

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 17:28

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 17:28
I think the expression is

"I seen it but I doooon't believe it!"

Trying to extrtact a simple "Yes/No" answer is almost impossible...
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FollowupID: 13669

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 00:02

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 00:02
You sound suprised you got the run around from AAMI or any insurance company?
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FollowupID: 13711

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 12:24

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 12:24
Not really surprised mate, but they really don't like have the "absolute disclosure" and "yes/no" answers turned around and pointed at them! Why do you think I asked....
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FollowupID: 13745

Reply By: stevesub - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 17:46

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 17:46
We are with NZI thorough DGC an insurance broker Ph 1800 800 471. Premiums are approx $300 and $450 for our 2 4WD's, we are middle aged and have max no claims. The Freelander is an import from New Zealand (I imported it as we owned it when we lived there). We are covered ANYWHERE in Australia so the policy states. Following is the actual wording from the policy

"Please note vehicle is covered for FULL off road and on road cover anywhere in Australia, there are no restrictions to this cover".

"Please note vehicle can have any modifications added to vehicle there are no restrcitions. Accessorites need to be notified"

Not bad we thought and still wondering what the catch is.

AnswerID: 21116

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 18:26

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 18:26
...Now ask them EXPLICITLY if you are covered when on a 4WD club trip and get it in writing!!.

If you look above AAMI said exactly what NZI said (or words to that effect). If your accssories make the vehicle technically "unroadworthy" (bigger tyres, lift kits etc, without an engineers certificate) do they have an "out" by way of an unroadworthy vehicle causing an accident, even though they new about the mods???

As I said at the head of this piece, ASK THE DIFFICULT QUESTIONS, better to find out now than later.
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FollowupID: 13675

Follow Up By: flappan - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 10:34

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 10:34
Yes , they do have an "out".

Insurance Co's will basically accept most mods, including larger tyres/wheels and suspension mods BUT it is YOUR responsibility to make sure the vehicle is "Roadworthy" Its not acceptable to say "but the Insurance was accepted".

NONE of the major insurance co's that I'm aware of WILL cover 4wd "club" trips. That also includes ON THE BITUMEN.

Only a couple of specialist Ins Co's (TCIS and co) WILL cover CLUB trips.

The NSW 4wd assoc (not sure of the exact title) have been having this argument with Insurance Companies for Years, in particular NRMA.

The other thing of interest from the Emails was coverage for private 4wd parks. As far as I'm aware, NONE cover this, or in fact, 4wding on someones Private Property (ie mates farm). They WILL cover any MARKED road, but geez, thats a bit wide for my liking.
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FollowupID: 13740

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 12:29

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 12:29
Makes you wonder if they cover you while you are parked on your mates proprty and a tree falls on it, ie. not a "marked road" (off the street) and someone elses property.
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FollowupID: 13746

Follow Up By: flappan - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 15:55

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 15:55
Actually Gary, we have talked about this before on other forums.

I don't profess do be a legal expert on this, but I have made some enquiries about this type of thing.

My understanding is this. If you are an invited guest on the property, then you are covered should a tree fall on you. If you're driving around, and a tree falls on you . . . . . grey area.

The other question then was, what if they have a long driveway (say 1km for argument sake). Its not a marked road is it. ????? You should still be covered provided you are legally allowed to be there. What if its YOUR driveway. Normal vehicle insurance wouldn't cover it. You would need some sort of "farm" insurance to cover that type of thing.

As I said though, I'm not an expert, so if any "Expert" is out there that COULD provide the EXACT coverage please do so. To many grey areas in 4by coverage for me.
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FollowupID: 13778

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 16:21

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 16:21
Agree totally. Ever driven up a "driveway" of a sheep station in CQ? can be several tens of kilometers long, and they may not know you are coming (on the other side of the station for a day or two at a time).

The more I look at it the better TFT insurance is looking, put the comprehensive insurance money aside for the big one when/if it happens.
0
FollowupID: 13784

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, May 29, 2003 at 15:49

Thursday, May 29, 2003 at 15:49
Gary....

The more I look at it, insurance isnt worth a pinch of bleep .

You do the right thing, pay your $$, ask all the questions you think will need to be asked... then they have their of HIGHLY paid "team of experts" does their best to get out of it, even if you HAVE been told everythin on the phone, done everything correctly...

Even If I had it in writing, I wouldnt trust them, they could say it was some pleb with no idea that said that, and then take that to court, all in an attempt to run you broke, so you cant contest it...

Trust me it happens.
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FollowupID: 13941

Reply By: Jeff (Beddo) - Friday, May 30, 2003 at 18:14

Friday, May 30, 2003 at 18:14
Thanks for all the responses - I will start calling.Cheers, Beddo
Surf KZN185
<- Yengo NP, Central Coast NSW
AnswerID: 21476

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