Mud Terrain vs All Terrain

Submitted: Monday, May 26, 2003 at 20:13
ThreadID: 5130 Views:10401 Replies:11 FollowUps:9
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G'day all,

Tyres are an issue of hot debate, and after reading all the archive posts to date about 'what tyres should I buy' issue I am still as confused as when i started (am I alone in this?)!!!
I know alot of ppl say go the Wrangler MTRs (is this site sponsored by Goodyear or what!?) but they ARE mud terrain tyres after all! I mean who out there apart from ppl who have two sets of tyres or pro tour operators actually do any more than 10-20% off road work if you average it out over the life of a tyre?

I am one who is willing to admit that out of my usual 300klms per week only about 50klms are actually off sealed roads. When i do go off road though I am likey to encounter either mud, sand, rocks, dirt or a combination of these.

Do I qualify for needing MT tyres or realistically should I buy AT tyres? Are the Wrangler MTRs an All Terrain tyre like they sound or should I be looking at Dueler AT, BFG AT, Wrangler AT or what? I want to get about 80, 000 klms out of the tyre and want to pay up to $300 ea for anything up to 33 inch tyres.

Is this confusing or is it just me?!?!
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Reply By: KiwiAngler - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 20:30

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 20:30
I have just changed to Coopers AT.

Checkout:
http://www.coopertires.com.au/
for the written gaurantee

and then:
http://www.coopertires.com.au/tyres/index.htm
for tire selection

Rest is over to you (hint: my mum always told me that a price tag is nothing more than an invitation to haggle)
AnswerID: 21130

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:46

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:46
read the fine print on the Guarentee... It costs you more than a tire to keep them under warranty..
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FollowupID: 13708

Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 00:13

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 00:13
Truckster

I have read the gaurantee. Not sure what you mean by "It costs you more than a tire to keep them under warranty". Please explain.
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FollowupID: 13715

Follow Up By: Member - Chris (W.A.) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 04:30

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 04:30
I might be wrong but I think part of the guarantee is that the tyres are balanced/rotated/aligned every 'X' amount of kilometres by an authorised dealer.....true or not?
RegardsLove the bush.
Chris
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FollowupID: 13722

Follow Up By: Allyn (Pilbara) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 10:16

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 10:16
correct - every 10K as I understand it.
That's approximately 8 wheel alignments, rotations and balances.In here - thinking of out there !!!
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FollowupID: 13735

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 13:55

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 13:55
It used to be every 5000klms, which is what I was talking about, that cost of full alignment and rotation and balance puts the cost thru the roof...

Now its every 10,000. But read the last sentence...

"... A participating dealer has the right to refuse orvarythe warranty period based on their discretion.."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From www.cooperstires.com.au

How to maintain the warranty
Every 10,000 kms you need to return to where you purchased your Coopers to have them aligned and rotated. Your participating dealer will endorse the Warranty Card. Your dealer has the right to refuse endorsing your warranty card if a fault is present in your vehicle that is causing erratic or rapid tyre wear.

What it will cost you?
Check the Warranty Card as it has a fixed low price for Cooper customers.

How to Claim on any Shortfall
As long as your participating dealer has endorsed your warranty card every 10,000 kms they will credit you with any shortfall off your next purchase.

Who isn’t Eligible for the Warranty?
Taxi or Hire vehicles
A participating dealer has the right to refuse or vary the warranty period based on their discretion.
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FollowupID: 13753

Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 19:05

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 19:05
Truckster

Yes you do have to get the tires rotated, balanced every 10,000ks etc. That would mean 8 checks @ $20 (have quote) = $160. I dont consider that a great cost.
I rotate and balance my tires now, as a matter of course and have done so for years, its good practice.
Each tire cost me $260 and the balancing will cost me $160 so not sure where... "It costs you more than a tire to keep them under warranty.. " comes from.

Pain in the proverbial when some beggar puts facts in the way of emotion :-)
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FollowupID: 13804

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 20:36

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 20:36
read my post again - slowly.

the first 6 words of the whole thing should give it away.
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FollowupID: 13814

Follow Up By: diamond(bendigo) - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 23:46

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 23:46
cooper tyres only give a waranty in the city.
i live in the country.
no waranty but as cooper say if they do 80000ks in the city they will do it in the country.
they do i work in the tyre buisnes and see them do them ks all the time.
you get people complaining about having to get them rotated and balanced every 10000ks ect well why wouldnt you anyway.
if the place your buying your tyres from want to charge you $60 for rotation and balance every 10000ks your buying at the wrong place.
when we sell a set of tyres pasanger or 4wd we give free rotation and balance for the life of the tyres.............. why.....so you will come back.
when you buy a set of tyres it pays to get a wheel alignment.
people always ask me how often should you get a wheel alignment.
answer is simple.
when you come back every 10000ks for your(free)rotation we will have a look and see how they are wearing.
with a good wheel alignment and you havnt belted the front end around you shouldnt need one till you get it done again on your next set of tyres.
i think its more finding a good tyre dealer to deal with more the people who carry on more about cooper waranty requirements and forgeting that they do make as far as im concerned the best 4wd tyre on the australian market.looking foward to september(landcruiser park/fraser island)
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FollowupID: 13832

Reply By: Steve - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 21:29

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 21:29
Cruza : as you said... the problem is just you !!

What do you want a tyre to do / be ??

MT are for 80% mud... AT 's are for 80% tarmac... and you reckon we have a problem ?
AnswerID: 21142

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 21:42

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 21:42
Horses for courses, if you do a lot of sand/bitumen A/T's, if you are likely to find youself in mud more than a couple of times a year M/T's. You've only got to need your muddies once in a blue moon to make them pay for themselves, likewise muddies and sand will bog you to the axle and a wish that you had bought A/T's.

Whatever your decision is you will be wrong, Murphy's Law says so!!
AnswerID: 21145

Reply By: chopper - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 21:54

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 21:54
I used to believe the theory about muddies being bad in sand, until i bought a set and tried them. Admitedly mine are 33x12.5, so when you let some air out of these babies they cover a whole lot of real estate.

I did 60 000 kms on my muddies and they've still got another 10 000 in them. I now use them a spare set for when i go out to play, and wear 31 x 10.5 ATs at other times.

On road the ATs are much nicer and performance is better, though this has much more to do with size than type. I do miss the ability (confidence) provided by the muddies, but it just means i need to be more organised.

In terms of use, it would be a very rare week that i do not put the hubs in, and I'll quite often go a week without disengaging them.

Also rather than talking about a percentage of your mileage, think about a percentage of time. An hour in low range might see you travel only a couple of kms, rather than a hundred on the highway.

Did you buy the fourby for comfort up the tarmac or for confidence/ability off of it??

We travelled to Barrington Tops ~1000kms each way, a few months back, obviously the troopy was wearing the ATs, when we got there and started exploring we were wishing that we had the muddies.

So in not answering your question i'll say this, even with two sets of tyres there are still compromises to be made.
AnswerID: 21148

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 22:17

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 22:17
...see Murphy's Law above
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FollowupID: 13698

Reply By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 22:04

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 22:04
I have muds and wouldn't have a less agressive tyre as i think why limit yourself offroad just for on road driving, by the way they arn't that noisy on road and have no complaints other than they do tend to bog down in sand.

AnswerID: 21149

Reply By: Dozer - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 22:38

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 22:38
Hi
I run muddies and find them good for all road surfaces. Wet/waterlogged bitumen is a place they excell aswell as mud and gravel. The AT tyre is probably more suited to my 95%onroad, but when i do go adventuring, i like to hold all the aces.
As stated above, you can live with muddies on all surfaces, but i cant live with an A/T in mud. (Might have to say to Colicab Patrol that im stuck in the mud)
Andrew LC80
AnswerID: 21158

Reply By: Allyn (Pilbara) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:42

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:42
IF YOU'RE GONNA BE A BEAR......................BE A GRIZZLY !!!In here - thinking of out there !!!
AnswerID: 21175

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:51

Monday, May 26, 2003 at 23:51
Heres some pics against my BFG MT's.
MTR's

yes I would say they are an MT compared to a Coopers ST which is an AT.

if you do 70% road and 30% offroad/mud I would go STs.. The ultimate is to run 2 sets of wheels, I did for ages, when I get $$ again I will do it again.

Some Simex Extreme Trekkers on rims, and some ST's for the road.
AnswerID: 21178

Reply By: Suzuki Viagra - Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 22:38

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 at 22:38
Simple answer - Muddies can cope on the road
A/T's can't cope in the mud.

In the right conditions, without lockers, I can drive through big patches of mud deeper than the top of my 30" tyres using Mud Terrains - you can ask me for the photos if you want proof. With All Terrains in those conditions, you'd be knee deep in the mud with the snatch strap out.

If you do any significant work on clay or mud surfaces, your A/T's will end up as slicks within seconds. There is truly no comparison.

If your 4wding consists of wet muddy terrain, there is simply no choice - well maybe between muddies and boggers....

If you do all dirt roads, sand or outback (dry season) then A/T's are the better option.

However, there are many types of A/T's (most companies these days offer multiple All Terrain patterns - usually some are almost Highway Terrains, and some damn near Mud Terrains.

Remember if you're buying new - not just to assess what you need now, but what you might encounter in the next 3 years your tyres will probably last. Even if you decide you want All Terrains, my tip is to go for something with a little GRRRR in them, because you can't call up your tyre dealer to come and change them when you're knee deep in it in the bush.
AnswerID: 21245

Reply By: diamond(bendigo) - Wednesday, May 28, 2003 at 00:04

Wednesday, May 28, 2003 at 00:04
gday cruiser.
we do most of our time on road about 4weeks a year hollidays.
on hollidays we go camping of road.
lots of time spent relaxing and as much time as we can of road site seeing ect.
total time spent of road would then be.???
well we do roughly 30000ks per yer.
hollidays we might clock up 5000ks
take away your time traveling there and back maybe 3000ks
take away your time not spent in the real of road stuff 2000ks.
so time in one year spent of road 1000ks.
so thats roughly 3%.
now i dont live in the out back and dont drive on dirt roads all day wich some people do this is just what we do.
i use cooper st.
why??? great milage good grip wet and dry good in sand and in the mud and a lot quieter than the deset duelers i had on.ps i work in a bridgestone store,
looking foward to september(landcruiser park/fraser island)
AnswerID: 21252

Reply By: Member - Rohan K - Wednesday, May 28, 2003 at 12:57

Wednesday, May 28, 2003 at 12:57
Cruza, no matter how many times this question is asked, the answer will always be the same. It depends on what you need them to do.

You mention you'll be "off-road" about 15% of your annual kms and that you'll likely encounter the whole range of terrain (just like most of us). But you haven't indicated the degree of difficulty of that terrain. There are rocks and then there are ROCKS. There is mud and there there is MUD, etc.

The guys who look for extreme conditions, even if it is only 15% of their driving, want and need more extreme tyres. The ones that enjoy more moderate conditions off-road can opt for a more moderate tyre (and enjoy the benefits of better on-road performance). What are you - a moderate, or a Tuff Truck kinda guy?

Think hard, be honest. Making this decision will help narrow your decision. Moderate guys go for moderate tyres, ie. ATs (note, there are varying degrees of AT). Tuff Truck kinda guys go for Tuff Truck kinda tyres like MTs.

It also depends to some degree on the capability of your vehicle. Particularly if you're a "moderate". The more capable your vehicle is, the less help you'll need from your tyres. I fit into the moderate group but my Pathie needs a little more help than diff-locked Patrol so I'm going for a slightly more aggressive AT (the Cooper ST). Once you've "categorised" yourself honestly, the type of tyre is the easy decision. The hard bit is choosing the best make, and if you ask that question here again, .... Life just ain't that serious.
Rohan (Sydney)
AnswerID: 21285

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