Patrols losing their wheels....some info that might assist.....

Submitted: Monday, Nov 05, 2007 at 21:38
ThreadID: 51317 Views:10884 Replies:7 FollowUps:15
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I've just copied the following from a weekly newsletter I receive related to the 4WDSA organisation....................

Make of it what you will.......I know a few blokes on this forum have also suffered this problem and it is only by sheer luck that nobody has (apparently) been killed due to the loss of a wheel.

I run steelies myself, but reckon anybody who has a GU with factory alloys should be VERY diligent......

Cheers

Roachie
********************************************************************************************************

More about Nissan Wheels.

It’s been an interesting week with lots of emails on the subject of late model Nissan’s losing wheels. A selection follows.

· In June, one of our support vehicles, a fairly new Nissan, suffered the same fate between Tibooburra and Cameron Corner. The vehicle rolled and was a total write-off but fortunately the passengers were shaken but not hurt.

I was told that the tolerance on the stud holes is minimal and when replacing a wheel it is very easy to feel that the wheel is hard against the backing plate but in fact it is not. The studs loosen and work their way out. Stephen

· The issue came to my attention when I purchased my current set of tyres, I was asked to bring my Patrol back after 1000 km to have the rear wheel nuts checked for tightness, as I was informed there have been instances of them coming loose. I was told it was only with the non steel wheels. The information I received was from Widetread Tyres in Ferntree Gully.

· We lost all six wheel studs whilst crossing a creek near Marble Bar. Luckily we were with someone else and were able to source some “second hand” studs in Marble Bar from some locals in the pub. We drive a Nissan Patrol 2001 model 4.2L wagon. Wayne

· I too have had the experience of losing wheel studs while driving the Great Central Rd between Warburton and Tjukayirla. In my case it was 5 studs sheared off on the left rear wheel. My vehicle had only covered about 20,000kms. I was lucky that the wheel hung on with one stud and was able to bring the vehicle to a stop. I carry a spare set for the rear and the front now. I bought my vehicle new in Sept 2005. Trevor

· We certainly have had first hand experience, in fact three times, the last also being near Copley. We have contacted Nissan Australia, but with no luck. Ken and Pam

· I own a 2005 4.2 and have had the same problem with wheels coming off. I have found this is a problem with the factory alloys so now I run steel rims. My best mate also has the same patrol as me. His passenger rear has come off with a $2000 repair bill.

I went to Nissan the complained that it should be a recall issue and the response was that the likely cause was (my) human error, once maybe but not four times. Brett

· In my experience 99% of the time wheels come off is because they have come loose and broken studs normally eventually result from this. I always carry a spare set of wheel nuts and studs to suit the vehicle and for trailers or vans as well. It is also good practice to recheck wheel nuts a couple of hundred Km after wheels have been removed. Peter. Alltrac 4WD

· The loss of a rear wheel under the circumstances described would probably be a safety related defect subject to recall. I suggest John raises the matter with Nissan and if he cannot get a satisfactory response reports the failure to the Department of Transport and Regional Services as a safety related defect. A report can be submitted online at http://dynamic.dotars.gov.au/recalls/NotifyUs.asp. It should be noted that DOTARS is not a consumer affairs agency and cannot assist in obtaining refund or repair. Max

· This has happened to me 2 years ago on a 2003 Nissan Patrol 3L Turbo Diesel. In Mt Isa I had my rear brake pads replaced at Beaurepaires. They did not tighten the nuts on the right rear wheel, which I noticed after driving only 2-3 km. I called in immediately and they fitted 5 new nuts (which were completely missing) and used a torque wrench to tighten all nuts. The manager was very apologetic. After about 1300 km I lost the same right rear wheel driving at about 100 kph. Luckily I was able to pull over at the side of the road. The only damage was to the rear axle. I did find the brake disc and all studs had sheared. Never found the wheel though. John

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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Monday, Nov 05, 2007 at 22:02

Monday, Nov 05, 2007 at 22:02
Bill

Got this from my late Westprint Friday Five

"It’s been an interesting week with lots of emails on the subject of late model Nissan’s losing wheels. A selection follows.

In June, one of our support vehicles, a fairly new Nissan, suffered the same fate between Tibooburra and Cameron Corner. The vehicle rolled and was a total write-off but fortunately the passengers were shaken but not hurt.

I was told that the tolerance on the stud holes is minimal and when replacing a wheel it is very easy to feel that the wheel is hard against the backing plate but in fact it is not. The studs loosen and work their way out. Stephen

The issue came to my attention when I purchased my current set of tyres, I was asked to bring my Patrol back after 1000 km to have the rear wheel nuts checked for tightness, as I was informed there have been instances of them coming loose. I was told it was only with the non steel wheels. The information I received was from Widetread Tyres in Ferntree Gully.

We lost all six wheel studs whilst crossing a creek near Marble Bar. Luckily we were with someone else and were able to source some “second hand” studs in Marble Bar from some locals in the pub. We drive a Nissan Patrol 2001 model 4.2L wagon. Wayne

I too have had the experience of losing wheel studs while driving the Great Central Rd between Warburton and Tjukayirla. In my case it was 5 studs sheared off on the left rear wheel. My vehicle had only covered about 20,000kms. I was lucky that the wheel hung on with one stud and was able to bring the vehicle to a stop. I carry a spare set for the rear and the front now. I bought my vehicle new in Sept 2005. Trevor

We certainly have had first hand experience, in fact three times, the last also being near Copley. We have contacted Nissan Australia, but with no luck. Ken and Pam

I own a 2005 4.2 and have had the same problem with wheels coming off. I have found this is a problem with the factory alloys so now I run steel rims. My best mate also has the same patrol as me. His passenger rear has come off with a $2000 repair bill.

I went to Nissan the complained that it should be a recall issue and the response was that the likely cause was (my) human error, once maybe but not four times. Brett

In my experience 99% of the time wheels come off is because they have come loose and broken studs normally eventually result from this. I always carry a spare set of wheel nuts and studs to suit the vehicle and for trailers or vans as well. It is also good practice to recheck wheel nuts a couple of hundred Km after wheels have been removed. Peter. Alltrac 4WD

The loss of a rear wheel under the circumstances described would probably be a safety related defect subject to recall. I suggest John raises the matter with Nissan and if he cannot get a satisfactory response reports the failure to the Department of Transport and Regional Services as a safety related defect. A report can be submitted online at http://dynamic.dotars.gov.au/recalls/NotifyUs.asp. It should be noted that DOTARS is not a consumer affairs agency and cannot assist in obtaining refund or repair. Max

This has happened to me 2 years ago on a 2003 Nissan Patrol 3L Turbo Diesel. In Mt Isa I had my rear brake pads replaced at Beaurepaires. They did not tighten the nuts on the right rear wheel, which I noticed after driving only 2-3 km. I called in immediately and they fitted 5 new nuts (which were completely missing) and used a torque wrench to tighten all nuts. The manager was very apologetic. After about 1300 km I lost the same right rear wheel driving at about 100 kph. Luckily I was able to pull over at the side of the road. The only damage was to the rear axle. I did find the brake disc and all studs had sheared. Never found the wheel though. John"

doesnt sound too good, but allso sound a bit suss..

Richard
AnswerID: 270251

Reply By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Monday, Nov 05, 2007 at 22:06

Monday, Nov 05, 2007 at 22:06
On Monday 8th October on Birdsville Track by Dulkaninna a 2002 3L TD Patrol with alloys that was an associate of mine that had just completed the Simpson Desert Bike Challenge as a support vehicle (medic) lost the rear passenger wheel.

Was on a bit of an uphill slope, sheared all the studs and broke the brake disc and caliper with the resulting trauma on the road.

Interestingly the Copley service guy carries lots of studs and related paraphernalia for Patrols...

Interestingly a Ford Courier that support vehicle had had the same problem happen on the Rig Road, although this was put down to not having properly seated the wheel when replacing it after a flat at Mt. Dare.

I've also helped out a late model Pajero who had lost the same wheel and studs on the Diamantina Developmental Road same time last year. Big job of raiding other wheels for studs, pulling them and seating them.

Cheers
Andrew who thinks it is a time of year thing.
AnswerID: 270252

Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 10:08

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 10:08
It's not only Patrols that have problems on the Simpson Challenge Desert Crossing. One of the members on here rode in one a couple of years ago and broke the seat off in the first day.
He officially completed the race with some temporary repairs, but I thought it was a bit anal.
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FollowupID: 533290

Follow Up By: Garbutt - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 12:03

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 12:03
Des I know you've been telling that story for years now, but the seat didn't break at all it was the frame. Sorry.
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FollowupID: 533308

Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 18:28

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 18:28
Yes I am aware of that now but, it was your Butt on the seat wasn't it?
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FollowupID: 533377

Reply By: Wheatbelt Wayne - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 00:34

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 00:34
Interestingly, I am quoted in this when we lost our wheel crossing a creek near Marble Bar (in quite a remote area on a largely unused track).

More interesting is the fact that we do have the standard steel wheels from Nissan.

Also, how many people have had the steel wheels develop cracks. One crack was only a few millimetres long, now stretches about 60% of the way across one spoke.

Anyone had issues with that and what was the outcome?
Cheers

Wayne

Member
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AnswerID: 270274

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 00:56

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 00:56
Roachie must have more info, mine was just a copy and paste,, sorry.

Richard
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FollowupID: 533256

Follow Up By: blue one - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:23

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:23
Had the same problem. Nissan replaced all 5 wheel with the heavy duty ones no questions asked.

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 533257

Follow Up By: tdf - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 07:41

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 07:41
mine cracked as well nissan replaced with heavier steel wheels under warrenty
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FollowupID: 533267

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 23:42

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 23:42
Early GU's had problems with the cracking steel wheels, later ones do not.
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FollowupID: 533453

Reply By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 02:27

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 02:27
Guys,

To read about my experience of last year go to posts 35665 and 34261 in the archive.

There is also info on the patrol forum about these recent incidents.

I have reported my case to DOTARS. Nil response from Nissan despite long conversations with senior people.

Moral of the story I think is change wheels to after market steels and always use a torque wrench - and check regularly.

Peter

AnswerID: 270275

Reply By: pt_nomad - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:24

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 06:24
I have had several busted wheel studs on my previous vehicle - S1 discovery. The problems all related to having the mags on and my swapping between them and steels for off raod. The mags had a flat faced wheel nut rather then the cone shaped face on the steels.
I elimiinated the problem by:
Wire brushing off all dirt from hubs and wheels.
Applying a copper based grease to the studes each change.
check torque 5-20 k's after changing.

I had experienced cracked / busted studs. I always found it on the first one but if I had let it go it would have resulted in more. I had a mate loose a mag on a S1 disco. Once the above procedure was applied the problems stopped.
Paul.

AnswerID: 270276

Follow Up By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:34

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:34
How do you know that swapping was causing the problem?

I've seen cases where swapping was not happening.
0
FollowupID: 533274

Follow Up By: pt_nomad - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:49

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:49
Hi Andrew,
In my case I had been routinely swapping between wheel sets. I never had an issue with the steels and their tapered face wheel nuts. All instances where I discovered loose wheel nuts where when the mags were on. Once re-tightened there were no further issues, this remained to be the case until I went through a tyre change.
I routinely take a vehicle for a short spin after a wheel change and re-torque nuts. I found that the incidence of loose nuts could occur many weeks after a change.
I have put the main cause to be the flat face of the rover discovery mag wheel’s wheel nuts and dry friction. The application of copper based grease seems to eliminate friction from a wheel nut appearing to be correctly torqued (thanks to the forum some time ago for identifying copper grease as the appropriate grease).
I was wire brushing the hub and wheel to ensure that the was no material present that could break down, fall out though travel and then introduce a clearance that would resulting in a loose wheel nut.
Once I implemented this procedure I had no further incidence of loose wheel nuts or cracked studs.
As mentioned this was all on a LR Discovery. It may not directly relate to the Nissan experience but is related and worth a mention.
0
FollowupID: 533277

Follow Up By: Andrew from Vivid Adventures - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 09:16

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 09:16
Interesting because the GU that I helped out on last month had a lot of rust on the hub... interesting to think that he might have been better keeping it clean.
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FollowupID: 533283

Reply By: 93 Navara - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:30

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 08:30
Can't recall my post but the same happened to our work Patrol. Series 4 but with the 16 inch alloys at our request. Wheel was changed and lasted 2,500 kms before coming off and jamming up under the front left hand guard.
Nissan denied fault stating advised torque settings must not have been followed, which of course they weren't as they were changed offroad with a wheel brace. They however paid for replacment parts/guard, but not labour.
Our organisation has had 4 come off now and I believe all vehicle will now have to run 17 inch rims due to a steel sleeve Nissan are no putting in their alloys.
Worthwhile having a tyreshop check torque setttings as asoon as practicable after changing a tyre though to prevent the above happening to you.
Ben
AnswerID: 270290

Follow Up By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 11:04

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 11:04
As I've said before - carry a torque wrench and check yourself. Use 100ftlb

Peter
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FollowupID: 533303

Follow Up By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 11:34

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 11:34
Did Nissan offer advice on how to check the torque settings with the supplied wheel brace? ;-)
Gerry
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FollowupID: 533305

Follow Up By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 11:38

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 11:38
No. My dealer went out and bought torque wrneches whcuh are routinely used on Patrols now. I have made the point that they should be supplied with the tool kit!

Peter
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FollowupID: 533306

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 22:41

Tuesday, Nov 06, 2007 at 22:41
This happened to a NEW GU on my Murray Sunset trip I just ran..

Speared a Cooper ST (No suprise there LMAO!), then the next day, the same wheel came loose, snapped a stud, and ovaled the holes on his rim. $1000 rims them things!

He was happy... more pist at the fact he knew about it, but forgot to check the rims.

hes now going to get steel rims and toss the crap alloys.
AnswerID: 270442

Follow Up By: ddr - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2007 at 10:02

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2007 at 10:02
Holes arnt ovaled, but there is scuffing on the holes will be checked Satdy. Tyre will be "looked at by an expert" Satdy too.

Not convinced on going steelies yet.

Its happened before in my 4-runner when changing from the steel back to the alloys. I know Alloys should ALWAYS be checked after first putting on after some driving, dont know why I didnt this time.
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FollowupID: 533508

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 07, 2007 at 13:02

Wednesday, Nov 07, 2007 at 13:02
how fast you change ya spots :P

just after I swapped them tires nad rims you were gettin steels... and them holes didnt look healthy to me! Could have been the edges were chewed more than the centes..

and them weights were well over GVM eh!

3600 for Shane!
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FollowupID: 533531

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