Reducing towball weight 160kg
Submitted: Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:25
ThreadID:
51535
Views:
8994
Replies:
6
FollowUps:
7
This Thread has been Archived
Member - David R (QLD)
Hi folks, We have recently bought an old Jayco poptop to tow with our Camry Altise. The Jayco weighs 1000kg but the towball weight is 160kg. Our Camry Altise is rated to tow 1200kg but the max towball weight is only 90kg. How dangerous is that really? The only obvious option to reduce van weight is move the spare wheel from the drawbar to the rear. That would help but not enough. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions? Would the axle location be adjustable forward a few inches? I would rather keep the Camry but if I had to change to another vehicle (value up to $15k), what would you suggest? I don't want a big guzzler 4WD (no offence to those who do!).
Reply By: disco1942 - Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:41
Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:41
I think you will be overloading your Camry. 200kg of load is not much allowance, particularly if you are going to carry gas and
water with you. With a tare weight of 1,000kg your ATM will be 1,300kg which exceeds the rating of your tug. Also FWD vehicles need a weight distribution hitch (WDH) to maintain traction - you will need a Hayman Reese 550 hitch if you can not reduce the ball weight to under 100kg.
A van at a maximum load of 1,300kg and a ball weight of 90kg only has a 6.9% ball weight,
well under the recommended 10%. Shifting the spare tyre and other heavy items to the rear to reduce the ball weight is likely to reduce the stability of your van.
PeterD
AnswerID:
271410
Follow Up By: Member - David R (QLD) - Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:52
Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:52
Thanks Peter, the 1,000kg weight was the ATM, loaded for a weekend trip and driven onto a weighbridge, weighed independantly of the tow car then hooked up and just the caravan main wheels weighed 840kg, hence ball weight of 160kg. I have a Hayman R weight dist set (only two bars) which I set to the tow vehicle being approx the same rear height as unloaded. I know there are differing opinions whether this actually reduces the T/B weight.
FollowupID:
534374
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 21:16
Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 21:16
David
WDH does not reduce the tow ball weight - it just transfers some of it to the front wheels.
Thanks for clarifying the weight. This somewhat changes the situation, as I saw it. Relocating the spare will go a fair way to correcting your situation. If you can reduce the ball weight to 90kg this will mean 90% which is quite reasonable.
PeterD
FollowupID:
534380
Reply By: Louie the fly - Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:49
Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 20:49
I had a similar issue with towing my boat with my Adventra when I first got it. The headlights were stargazing a bit. Worked out that if I keep some items on the back
seat, along with 80lt fuel, it was enough to redistribute the weight. Mind you, I have a tandem trailer as
well. I also upgraded to a 2100kg tow pack.
Where is the
water tank, fore or aft of the axle? If aft, keep it filled. Move the spare & maybe add a second. Even redistributing some of the van's contents can help a bit. It may be a big job to relocate the axle forward.
My dad used to tow a similar van with a Magna Altera without any probs. I thought the Camry was rated to 1500kg but obviously not. Good luck with it.
AnswerID:
271412
Reply By: PradOz - Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 21:35
Monday, Nov 12, 2007 at 21:35
now i am sure this will start a few arguments. i am about to do a LPG conversion on my prado. will give me great fuel savings compare to straight petrol. i have spoken to many others running LPG on their 4wds and all say same thing - fantastic. cost to convert is $2300. government rebate is $2000. last guy i spoke to (yesterday) doesnt even bother to run his landcruiser on petrol anymore - for regular use, 4wding or towing.
so there are options there if you want them. you have the option of using the LPG or petrol. cheers
AnswerID:
271418
Reply By: DIO - Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 10:48
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 10:48
In all honesty, I don't think the solution to your problems will be easily achieved. To move the spare wheel to the rear of the van might indeed reduce some of the ball weight but in doing so it will increase the rear weight which is very likely to start causing an imbalance of the van. Van's are engineered (believe it or not) with due consideration to their chassis length, axle capacity, wheel size, van weight front and rear etc. To start moving things around to try and achieve a lower towball weight may cause more problems than you already have. It would seem that the car and van are simply not matched to one another. I suggest that if you insist on retaining the same tow vehicle/van combination, you should seek some expert advice. Perhaps you could start with your local Hayman Reese distributor or a Tow Bar manufacturer. Someone with industry experience and knowledge of the forces at play and resulting dangers if you fail to abide by some basic principles.
AnswerID:
271458
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 13:40
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 13:40
"Perhaps you could start with your local Hayman Reese distributor or a Tow Bar manufacturer."
I don't think so. WDH does not reduce the ball weight - it just distributes some of it to the front wheels. The legal situation is the load has to be re-distributed in the van to reduce the ball weight to 90kg.
PeterD
FollowupID:
534482
Reply By:- Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 14:44
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 14:44
In my humble opinion tow anything more then 500kg by FWD car is plainly crazy – does not matter what manufacturer saying, I recon you just ask for trouble. In my opinion if you really set yourself on van, than you should change your tow car. Not need to have “big guzzler” – you can walk away with old gas RWD falcodore. They quite cheap and you can even have one for towing only, thus keeping your nice Camry for everyday civilized driving.
Cheers.
Serg.
AnswerID:
271482
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 14:56
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 14:56
"In my humble opinion" - sounds like you have never had experience in towing with a FWD. I have, if you follow the manufacturers handbook, keep within the weight limits and use WDH there are no more problems than than towing with RWD. Employing WDH puts more weight on the front wheels than when un-hitched and they are operating as they were designed. The extra load you place in the boot and the extra weight (half the ball weight) from the van keeps the rear wheels following.
PeterD
FollowupID:
534488
Follow Up By:- Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 15:37
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 15:37
Whatever, mate. I still preserve my humble opinion. FYI I am driving my second Cruiser and my
forth Magna.
Cheers.
Serg.
FollowupID:
534497
Follow Up By: Member - David R (QLD) - Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 20:22
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 20:22
Thanks everyone for your varied replies. They reflect the dilema i am going through. I dont want to modify the van that much to risk the engineeriing design but just to reduce the towbar weight ratio to the 10% of ATM that is standard nowadays. Perhaps that wasnt the case when the van was built in the early 80s. Moving the spare wheel to the rear probably wont upset the chassis dynamics but then also wont be enough to reduce the t/bar weight enough. I might take the wheel and mount off this weekend and weigh them. I am also aware of insurance and legal risk if something should go wrong (even if its the other guys fault!). That leaves me with either replacing the Camry Altise with something like a BA Falcon or replacing our other old Toyota with perhaps a VR or VS Comdore as per Serg's suggestion. Any warnings or suggestions on alternatives of similar value?
FollowupID:
534561
Follow Up By: Member - David R (QLD) - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 21:16
Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 21:16
Just letting everyone know I have successfully remedied my problem, for now anyway. I removed the spare wheel and carrier. the wheel now resides in the back of the tug. More importantly, I took all the annex poles out of the the pole holder and put them under the bed at the rear of the van. No-one mentioned the annex poles! I took the van over the weighbridge today and found the towball weight now down to 80kg! The wheel and carrier weighed 16kg and the poles weighed 28kg. I also put a bit extra air in the van tyres to 42psi and put the distribution bars one link higher. Result is the van is now legal, tows better, and my blood pressure is down to human levels. I hope some other "newbies" might benefit from my experience. Cheers
FollowupID:
535659
Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 17:43
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 at 17:43
All kinds of insurance and legal implications apart from the issue of whether it is safe.
AnswerID:
271529