WDH and tow ball weight
Submitted: Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 10:45
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jdbb
Hello all
If I have a van weighing 2800kg with a ball weight of 280kg hooked up to a LC100 turbo diesel and use a Hayman Reece WDH, in terms of calculationg GVM, does the tow ball weight reduce?
If the ball weight does reduce, where does the weight go to - does it add to the front or rear axle load and does some of it go back to the van?
regards
John
Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 10:53
Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 10:53
The weight doesnt and cant reduce it just transfers some of the weight (downward force) towards the front axle.
You will see when u hook it up sags in the middle before hooked up
Sits even after hooking up.
The weight remains the same.
Easiest way to prove it is to take rig to weighbridge and sit car on it and remove the WDH.
If u then weigh each axle you will get different figures depending on whether you have the WDH on or not.
As it says its a weight distributing hitch.
Anyway thats how an engineer I bought my hitch off described it
AnswerID:
272161
Follow Up By: pjchris - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 22:08
Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 22:08
You should check with Toyota.
Although Graham is correct that the weight does not vanish the owners manual for my Pajero CLEARLY shows that where a WDH is used only HALF of the towball load counts against the vehicle GVM.
Peter
FollowupID:
535455
Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 23:05
Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 23:05
Pray tell me where the other half goes then as it doesnt go back to the van.
If there is 250kg on a towball doesnt matter what u use other than a jack its still 250kg and its still pushing down on the towbar so I cant figure that one out
Another oddity from mits u bitsi
FollowupID:
535475
Follow Up By: pjchris - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 00:41
Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 00:41
Actually it does go back on to the trailer..according to what I can find a WDH transfers some of the weight from the rear of the vehicle to the front axle and some back on to the trailer axle...
see
http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/truck_towing_modifications/index.html
It appears my estimate of half was a bit excessive. A properly set up WDH on a van with a 240kg ball weight will result in 160KG lower wieght on the rear with 80KG going to the front axle of the car and 80kg to the trailer axle(s). SO only 2/3 of the ball weight is on the car...
Many sites when talking about WDH refer to "Distributing the tongue weight evenly across all axles on the car and trailer".
Peter
FollowupID:
535700
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:14
Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:14
Peter
You are correct when you say that the weight on the van's axles is increased. However the article is more diagrammatic than accurate. There is a thread buried somewhere in the Caravaners
forum that was posted by someone who understands physics - his calculations showed an increase but no where as much as you are saying.
For all practical purposes the tow ball weight is still much the same. It certainly is the same when the authorities are dealing with you.
PeterD
FollowupID:
535704
Reply By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 18:51
Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 18:51
Hi John, Graham is 100% correct in his answer to your query.
It seems a heavy ball weight for what I assume is a tandem van.
Is it just a coincidence that the 280Kg ball weight is a neat 10% of your van weight.
Cheers
AnswerID:
272217
Follow Up By: disco1942 - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:03
Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 01:03
It is not a coincidence. Vans are generally constructed so when they are loaded roughly 10% of their loaded weight is carried on the ball and 90% of the weight on the
wheels.
PeterD
FollowupID:
535702
Reply By: Member - Clive G (NZ) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 19:49
Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 19:49
Hi John.
There is a lot of smoke and mirrors used in regards to WDH claims. You are right, the weight doesn’t go anywhere, I doubt that Hayman Reese can defy gravity. The correct term for the device would be “Load Levellers”. They are handy for people who don’t do a lot of towing and don’t want to make permanent changes to their vehicle. Air bags do the same job but are a permanent change more or less. Think about how they work. The back of the vehicle sags due to the weight that the vehicle springs can’t handle, The pivot point is the hitch which hinges down. The WDH passes under this point with torsion bars or springs. The torsion then winds up under the pivot point and straightens the hinge, which is good. But where do the front of torsion bars end?? At the tow bar, so the weight on the draw bar remains the same, the weight on the van axle remains the same. The excess weight is carried in the torsion bars. The vehicle doesn’t know anything about it other that is now travelling in a level attitude, which is good (load levellers). Any weight distribution that occurs is in the fact the vehicle is now level. Air bags do the same thing, upgraded rear springs do the same thing. Sorry about the rant but Hayman Reese get right up my nose with their clap trap advertising. It must be just a shade off misleading.
Regards. CliveG (NZ)
AnswerID:
272224
Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 23:19
Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 at 23:19
Well I must disagree as u can tell just by looking at your front tyres after you pull the hitch up that there is more weight on the front
wheels.
It could also be said the pivot point is the rear axle as anything behind it drops and anything in front rises.
In my experience air bags help but arent as good as the hitch for levelling, they just basically stop rear end sag but the front end can still come up. If it does it must be pivoting on a point in the car. It can matter also how far your ball extends beyond the towbar as the further back from the axle it is the greater the drop.
I had my Hayman shank shortened as it stuck out a long way due to the spare wheek hard up against the inner end of the tow socket. Try a heavy van without one and see how light the steering is then hook one up and u will see the difference.
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Follow Up By: TroopyTracker - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 20:47
Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 20:47
Clive,
You're waaaaaaaaaaay off. Don't feel too bad though, people who get payed to give advice on towing are often just as deluded :-(((
WDH's do what no spring, airbag etc can ever do.
I can't be bothered typing this again. Anyone who actually wants to know about safe towing and WDH's-search this site and google.
Matt
FollowupID:
535646
Reply By: TroopyTracker - Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 21:07
Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 at 21:07
John,
You got it, when you use your WDH, the ball load is now shared between the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle and a certain amount is actually transferred back to the front axle of the van.
But.......I would say you should still count the ball weight in its total as part of the GVM. Also, many new vehicles actually have a reduced GVM based on ball load to compound the problem! Don't think the Cruiser has this issue.
A weigh bridge will take any guess work out. About then you'll probably realise that your GVM is not too far away. Don't forget to include two people sitting in the vehicle, fuel tanks full and whatever gear you'll travel with.
Way I see it, you can either travel light, or do what 95% do- forget about it and hope you never have a major bingle or get pulled up told you're overweight/unroadworthy !!!
Matt
AnswerID:
272406
Reply By: jdbb - Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 14:05
Monday, Nov 19, 2007 at 14:05
Thanks for all the comments gents - didn't mean to open a can of worms.
I don't have a van yet but it is not too far away. I wanted to get an idea of whether I could tow a van at 280kg tow ball weight legally. From the comments received it seems that regardless of the WDH, the tow ball weight is not reduced as far as the authorities are concerned.
The cruiser went over the weigh bridge before I added all the goodies and will go over again this week to see what I've got to play with. I'm not prepared to run the risk of being overweight - have worked far too long and hard to see it all go down the drain.
regards
John
AnswerID:
272512