Absolute Frustration.

Submitted: Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:02
ThreadID: 52329 Views:3542 Replies:22 FollowUps:18
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I thought long and hard before I posted this thread.

My wife and I run a small tour business, We work hard to give people a great tour, we look after our employee's.

I employed one fella from the previous owner, I gave him a pay rise last year and again this year, he is worth every cent, I employed another guide and gave him top dollar as well worth it, I employed a Nanny I gave her a pay rise after 2 weeks worth every cent, then I made my mistake.

I employed a person for 6 days before she went on a over seas trip, that was pre arranged all seemed fine, she came back on the 4th of August and started straight away, we didn't need her but it was a act of good faith, as I had told her she had a job when she got back.

Since August 7th she has been on compo, apparently she fell and has a broken wrist, shoulder injury, swollen foot, and bumped her head, yet she drove continued the tour and drove 170 km home, yes she had the Sat phone and didn't relay a message to the senior guide.

Since the 7th of August the insurance company have accepted the claim based on a doctors report that says she has chronic pain disorder, WTF, there was no x ray or ct scan for nine weeks, after the scans it showed no injury, she was photoed and filmed lifting boxes, she cried poor and demanded I pay her immediately after
her judgement I had 5 working days, as soon as she got it, she left the country within 24 hours.

I was told it was over not so, she has disputed the amount I need to pay her, It was dismissed, today I get a served saying I have to defend it in court, the insurance company will defend it for me as I will be on holidays as of Monday.

So to date it has cost me close to $10,000, I've been dragged through an unfair dismissal claim I successfully defended, and now this sh1t, all for 3 days work.

Thanks for listening as I need to get this off my chest.

Cheers Steve.

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Reply By: Trekkie (Member - WA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:35

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:35
Steve, I have had similar experience - I employ 11 people and sometimes wonder if it is all worth it - one of our workers fell over her own feet when walking to her desk one afternoon (no she had not even been drinking) 10 to 12 months later with weeks and weeks off work, rehabilitation, RSI, Physio, pain specialaists, OT etc etc - She did not want to work for us any more we did not want her (but could not dismiss her while on compo)

Just grin and bear it - after a while she resigned to inflict herself on another employer
AnswerID: 275405

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:45

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 01:45
Why would she get RSI from falling over? I couldnt think of something easier to dispute than that, unless she fell over 400 times?
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Reply By: rockpiglet - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 02:38

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 02:38
Hi Steve
Had an employee on tour who strained a shoulder?? Luckily we kept her working on light duties till contract was finished. Thanks to doctors, tour manager, and physio.
All signed off and well.

Person has had 2 compo claims with future employers since, for unrelated injuries. ??? Myself and the tour manager, have other ideas.
AnswerID: 275411

Reply By: Member No 1- Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:24

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:24
ruddy parasites
AnswerID: 275423

Follow Up By: DIO - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:11

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:11
What's 'parasitic' about an employee injuring themselves whilst at work then as a result of said injury, requiring medical intervention, perhaps hospitalisation, rehabilitation etc. If the present 'system' has provision for compensation for said injury, pain and suffering and perhaps (heaven help them) the possibility of long-term or even permanent disability, then what's the problem with either continuing payment of salary etc. As for employees 'ripping off the system' NO I don't agree with or support such action. Wonder how many employers there are who blatantly and knowingly rip-off employees whether through wages, conditions, entitlements, work safety etc. Bet there are plenty.
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Follow Up By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:18

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 11:18
DIO.

This woman wrote 3 accident reports with 3 different stories, the insurance companies doctor gave her the compo claim, as he couldn't prove she wasn't injured as there were no scans for nine weeks, the x rays were inconclusive.

Once the scans were taken it showed no injury but she complained of continuing pain, she told the doctor that she was told of this condition called chronic pain disorder, so in fear of malpractice he continued to give her time off with light duties, I know this because I have all the records.

Once it became apparent I was being scammed, I notified her that if she wanted to continue her employment, she had to have a full medical as she had apparently fallen twice in three days I wasn't notified of the first fall till latter.

She argued that the medical should be paid by compo, I told her it was now a job requirement, as I wanted to know if she was capable of performing her duties, she refused so she was told she was no longer required.

Next thing you know I have proceedings against me for unfair dismissal, This journey to Darwin to sort this out cost me $3500 of lost revenue, I was deemed to be in the right, no compensation for me.

Her pay was decided by what she had earned in the last 12 months and her non cash benefits EG: the free rent and board I gave her, she was duly paid, she then left the country but complained she was not being paid enough so it went to mediation she lost, now she is taking me to court.

I have since found out she tried a similar stunt with her last employer, this woman is having a holiday in the UK at my expense.

Yes she is a parasite.

Steve

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Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 17:35

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 17:35
This woman will get what's due her be patient, this is a game to her but, she will be watched and charged with making a false insurance claim.

I have a friend who does insurance claims and the people believe they only go on for the time of the case, oopsy no way they go on for life pretty much so as soon as she is seen doing something that she's not suppose to then she is gone!!!! be patient. Then strike!
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Follow Up By: Member - Mainey (wa) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 21:12

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 21:12
Yes, she is a real "parasite" and also the cause of high business insurance rates, something that's not easily understood by 'honest & hard working' people.





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Reply By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:54

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 07:54
Sounds like a crappy situation you've been landed in. I believe in unfair dismissal laws and insurance compo, but no scans for 9 weeks? If she had a broken wrist then why no xray?

Have you had a second opinion regarding her 'chronic pain'? Pain is a subjective thing and medical people can be fooled ocassionally. Does the insurance company have doctors they use?

Barnesy
AnswerID: 275425

Reply By: madcow - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:12

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:12
It does help to "speak" about it and get it off your chest eh? Good luck with it matey there are a lot of us in your corner!
AnswerID: 275431

Reply By: KSV. - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:23

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:23
Yep, people our biggest investment, yet can be biggest nuisance. Sometimes nothing much can be done about it, do whatever you need to do and sooner it finished sooner you forget about it.

Good Luck
Serg
AnswerID: 275438

Reply By: Willem - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:47

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:47
Hang in there Steve

Although not that expensive I have been through the same mill with employees or disgruntled customers(tourists). All minor issues blown up out of all proportion. They seem to think that you are an easy target.

Go on holiday and put it in the back of your mind.

Cheers
AnswerID: 275446

Reply By: fisho64 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:59

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 08:59
Dont forget though you guys, that it isnt all one-sided. If it was all as described here, why are there so many suicides of people on workers comp?
If it was all as described above, people on compo would be buying houses in the Carribean and dancing in the streets on their crutches?
Why do you have insurance compnies letting tyres down and filming the results etc, no matter whether it is a "genuine" case or not?
Rather than being weighted in favour of employers, I think it is weighted in favour of people doing the right thing, and severly open to abuse by either worker, employer and insurance company.

Oz needs a system like NZ's ACC (Acident Compensation Commission)
AnswerID: 275448

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:15

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 10:15
Of course both sides can abuse a situation. There are of course workers who made fraudulent claims.

But employers have the power at the end of the day, maybe not small employers like this case but big companies have a lot of power.

My brother is (was) on workcover from 3 slipped discs in his back. The employers own insurance company's doctors said he has to do light duties only. They wouldn't give him light duties and kept him on full duties aggravating his back. Eventually making him so bad he couldn't do anything and the employer eventually fired him.

He was filmed coaching his sons under 8 footy team from the sidelines and they argued this meant he could play football!

They are willing to pay court costs and compo if it means getting him off their books. I'm sorry but big companies have most of the power. The last 11 years of government rule hasn't made it easier for blue collar workers in this respect.

How hard is it for Victims to get money off James Hardie?
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Follow Up By: Member - Clive G (NZ) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 20:27

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 20:27
Fisho64
NZ’s ACC system would not help Steve in his predicament as the claim is for unfair dismissal, not the alleged injury. Our dismissal laws are very similar to Oz. I am also an employer and have long been advised by our lawyers that if an employee is obviously being a problem then just sack them, then grit your teeth. In the long term the 10K cost (typical here to) is the cheapest option.
CliveG (NZ)
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 22:11

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 22:11
Its only unfair dismissal now, after all the compo business and because of it.
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Reply By: Nick R (VIC) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:18

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:18
Steve, frustrating isn't it, been through the same thing, Also learned that while the employer has to stick by the rules, the rules about reporting etc don't necessarily have to be followed by the employee.
It rubs salt into the wound when you know they are bunging it on, not even a sworn witness statement from an independant person is good enough to put a stop to it, doesn't help either when the workcover investigator goes missing for 2 months thus missing the deadline for conclusion of the report......
While never wanting to screw over an employee over a workcover issue I take exception to having to lube up and cop it sweet when you know it is wrong.

All i can say that is helpful is concentrate on your good workers and how much better they can be for life and business
Nick
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AnswerID: 275453

Reply By: Off-track - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:45

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 09:45
Think of it this way - $10k to sack her is probably money well spent. :-)
AnswerID: 275461

Reply By: Footloose - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:42

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:42
I know a person who's a member of a protected species. Laugh at him, deride him in any way and he'll sue the pants off you.
He knows every word of the appropriate acts, and how to use them to his advantage.
I know of 4 or 5 times when he's sued companies and individuals, and I estimate the known bonanza at around $100K.

It must be an interesting way of going through life.
AnswerID: 275488

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:42

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:42
Gday Steve,

I once had a boss who told us all (while building a 12m Tank stand) if anyone falls he'll sack them before they hit the ground..
LOL

Maybe you could offer her light duties??

Something like licking the toe jamb from the tourists feet when the get back from a days walking.
Or Wipeing the sweat from the crack of your arrsse?

You never know, she might get better and prefer her old job back.....and then sack her!

We have a similar sought of bloke at work (permanently on compo) it gives everyone the bleep s!!!! Hes just a bludger!

Good Luck
AnswerID: 275516

Reply By: Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:49

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:49
Hi Steve, like the one in todays paper, a lady had a snow ball thrown at her back and is now taking legal action against her fellow work mate cause it has bought back on the pain caused by a previous accident !!!! Must have been a big snow ball and secondly she's out skiing the snow fields !!!!. Now I know things can trigger previous back injuries and it doesnt take a lot, sneezing will do it ,BUT if you have had previous major surgury on your back I'm quit sure I would not be taking any chances and be ploughing down a snow slope ?? I know there a few people on here one in particular who has had large time off work and some major surgery and is still taking care and still in the healing stage and has only just been game enough to take a road trip but I'm quit sure he would not be prepared to go blasting down a ski slope. I feel for the poor bloke that threw the snow ball. Got to be so careful these days no mucking about any more in the work place. Regards Steve M
AnswerID: 275517

Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 17:20

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 17:20
G'day Stephen

Is this the case in USA where the fella that threw the snowball is an Aussie and could be facing up to 2 yrs jail???

Cheers.....Dave
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Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 18:49

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 18:49
Hi Dave, yes thats the one. I bet he's a bit nervous at the moment Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 22:20

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 22:20
be careful that you are getting the full story and not the tabloid version. Some descriptions of the events have come across as him being an bleep and harrasing her heaps etc.
I have no idea which is true, but if it sounds too rediculous then its likely NOT the full story.

Do you think they were best of friends, he threw a snowball in jest, so she sued him? Doesnt quite sound like the full story does it??
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 23:57

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 23:57
Fisho

My question to Stephen was simply" Is this the case in USA where the fella that threw the snowball is an Aussie and could be facing up to 2 yrs jail???" nothing more nothing less!!

Cheers.......Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 23:59

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 23:59
Forgot to add ....Why do i have to be careful???
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 20:52

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 20:52
Burgy-what makes you think I was replying to your follow-up?
yours was a follow-up to Stephen, as was mine.

Maybe you need to be careful not to throw "snowballs" in the wrong direction! otherwise I do not know?
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 22:56

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 22:56
No probs FISHCAKE

Cheers.........Dave
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Reply By: JimDi - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:50

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 16:50
Steve,
Sadly you will be a much wiser and experienced person when this is all over. Did I mention cynical?
Jim
AnswerID: 275518

Reply By: Member - BIGDOG G (WA) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 17:46

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 17:46
G'day Steve,
I have no words of wisdom Steve.
I just jumped on to offer my support.
Look, this is the way of the modern world now, some people cop it some dont, you did.
Get rid of this experience as soon as is possible and move on.

Regards...........BIGDOG
AnswerID: 275531

Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 18:11

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 18:11
Unfortunately, due to the recent events on 24/11, it certainly isn't going to get any easier for small business employers!
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Reply By:- Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 18:22

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 18:22
"Think of it this way - $10k to sack her is probably money well spent. :-)"

G'Day Steve,

After many years in large industry, I can tell you that most experienced people who have seen many of these things over the years, fought an lost more than won, would all agree with the statement above.

Put it down to experience, learn from it and enjoy the future.

Getting down about it only adds to your loss.

Unfortunately no system is perfect, and people on both sides of the fence will lose at times

Hope this helps

Rolande
AnswerID: 275537

Reply By: Member - Clive G (NZ) - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 20:38

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 20:38
Steve.
Good that you got off your chest. Suggest that you move on and put it behind you. In the future you will do well because you work hard and provide a good service. What will her future be? More than likely a dead beat bum that nobody trusts. It’s (almost) worth the 10 grand to watch it happen.
CliveG (NZ)
AnswerID: 275551

Reply By: Steve from Top End Explorer Tours - Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 22:40

Friday, Dec 07, 2007 at 22:40
Hey thanks for your show of support.

My wife and I had a laugh at some of the responses, we should be able to get the wages we have paid back through the insurance company, but the premiums will go up and if we have to get a lawyer well who knows.

I have found out today that I can now appeal if I don/t like the decision in court, so there's something.

My wife and I worked bloody hard to get here, I will never let some one else take us down.

Once again Cheers Steve.
AnswerID: 275567

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:04

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:04
The unfortunate thing is you probably will never hire a women again which is entirely understandable
My missus always compains to me how much harder it is for women
her last job they spent a grand on inductions for her plane flights too and from accomadation
2 days of work and she said fly me back
i had to point out to her they would never hire another women
Didnt get any for a week - what price the truth
AnswerID: 275574

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 03:22

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 03:22
Not trying to get into a sexist argument but it is harder for women. Especially if they have children.

A woman I know recently got a top quality job with the RFDS. After a couple of grands worth of plane flights and 4 days of inductions she decided she couldn't spend any more time away from her children. Back to her old job at the hospital. What a total waste of money for the RFDS.

Wouldn't be an issue for a bloke.

Barnesy
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FollowupID: 539329

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 03:26

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 03:26
As a side argument that is a contributing factor to the doctor shortage. Majority of new medical grads are females, who on average work a lot less hours than men. Especially after they have kids, they come back 2-3 days a weeks rather than staying full time right through.
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Follow Up By: Member - Steve NT - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 11:05

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 11:05
I have no problem employing women, in fact there are many girls out there doing a great job, I had 2 girls last year my wife and another girl and her husband.

Unfortunately I wouldn't employ her husband this year as he was just lazy, I will try to get her back next year as they have moved back to Jabiru.

We are also looking at getting local Indigenous guide next year.

We have already put in place ways not to repeat this problem again, as a post above says there are things in business that hard you up.

Cheers Steve.
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FollowupID: 539360

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:05

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 02:05
The unfortunate thing is you probably will never hire a women again which is entirely understandable
My missus always compains to me how much harder it is for women
her last job they spent a grand on inductions for her plane flights too and from accomadation
2 days of work and she said fly me back
i had to point out to her they would never hire another women
Didnt get any for a week - what price the truth
AnswerID: 275575

Reply By: Member - lyndon K (SA) - Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 23:03

Saturday, Dec 08, 2007 at 23:03
Sorry to hear of your troubles Steve, but rest assured,every dog has it's day! You may never hear of it but it will happen!
Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

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