Small 4x4 (take 2)

Drew

The short answer is, that while the Suzuki is great for dirt roads and off road driving, it does not have much power for towing.

I would suggest you look for a larger 4x4 such as a Toyota 4Runner, Nissan Pathfinder, Mitsubishi Pajero and so on. All these vehicles can be bought for well under $10grand if they date back to the mid 90's. They should give you reasonable fuel consumption around town or you can also look around for a LPG powered vehicle although the price of gas keeps on rising.

Cheers

Pajero would fit the bill heaps better than a suzi. I used to tow all the gear camping with mine and only decided to sell because I wanted a ute tray. Just one persons opinion though.

The Sierra is a 1.3 actually. It would do it but it would be stretching it to its limit. The Vitara is a 1.6 and is a better vehicle for what you want to do. An excellent vehicle if you can find a good one is the last od the old shape Jackaroos with an efi 2.6. Very gutsy vehicle especially in swb form with 4 wheel discs brakes, so you can pull up. Fuel economy is reasonable. Best I ever got was 27mpg but on short trips about 23mpg.
If you want a fair dinkum 4wd you best not to worry to much about fuel economy. A sierra towing 6ookgs could have safety issues .
I loved my old 4runner with a 22r motor(2.4) but it was a dog towing my boat(6ookgs). My 3.5 Jack does it so easy it is a pleasure to drive, and the diff in economy towing would be less than 10%
Cheers Pete

A different approach. Buy an older vehicle. With a bit of searching you can still find pretty good 60 series Toyo diesels. Might be on their second engine but still be available for a few thousand. Built like tanks, space and towing power. Driven gently, surprisingly economical. What you will save on the purchase price will make up for the extra fuel cost. The extra strength of these things is also likely to save you $ in the long run. Lots of parts and extra bits still around.
To my way of thinking, they are the best buys for those who want to go 4WDing today. Depreciation costs on newer vehicles when added to fuel costs are killing us. Answer, get something strong and eliminate the depreciation factor.

If you go a "light" 4By, you will struggle towing with even 600kg.

If you go medium sized, as others have suggested, Pajero, Pathfinder etc... expect to get fuel consumption of not less than 13L / 100km in the city. And thats driving it, like you have the last tank of petrol in the world.

Drew

There is a reason why the vast majority of 4WDs you see on the road are medium to large vehicles. A Sierra is a great little fun car but put four people in it and a trailer on the back and you will have every part of it stressed to the max. When you are faced with a wet mountain hill you could find it is brilliant at sitting still and spinning its wheels but not much else.

If this is your first venture into 4WD then I can assure you that you will soon want to go somewhere other than the same road to the same National Park. You will also discover that a trailer can restrict your assess to many interesting places and I don't mean ones where you have to transverse extreme damm near impossible tracks to get tothem You will also find out very quickly that your mate's Hilux will go places even in standard form that most of the small 4WDs could only dream of.

Have you ever thought about buying a Hilux instead of a smaller car? They are about mid way between the small 4WDs and the full size Cruisers and Patrols and the running costs should not be much more.. A dual cab would carry your family with easy and it would tow your trailer. They are not short on ground clearance and you will have to go looking for some pretty rough conditions before modifications become necessary. Another advantage is with a flat tray on the back (usually about 1800 wide and 1500 long), you could either build, or have custom made, some form of camper body that could eliminate the need to tow anything.

Brian

I had 2 Sierras and on the highway, I am doing better now in a 2.7 diesel than I was in a 1.3. The little motor, while it will go anywhere, is working hard to tow a trailer any distance. I took a Sierra trailer Townsville-Newcastle return 3 times, so I have some idea.

If you want a comfortable mid sized wagon, the I would strongly suggest a 2.7 diesel Terrano II (and no, I'm not selling mine). Good on the road, quite capable off. A different body shape, so most are passed over at car yards as a unknown, but all the mechanicals are Navara/Pathfinder. You can often pick up a 10 year old model for around 8-10000 with a few bits bolted on.
Most of my club drive/drove V6 Pathfinders but are not keen on the fuel economy.

Kia Sportage (pre 2002) or Suzuki Vitara. A Suzuki Sierra does not have the space power or comfort to do what you require.

Mike Harding

thanks for all the info.

After reading the post about the Hilux i rang me friend who i will be going four wheel driving with. He is going to lend me the Hilux for a weekend after christmas. he has a dual cab tray back 2.8ltr diesel. he even said if i get a turbo (he does not hav one) its even better on fuel, is that correct. oh and i like the idea of the tray back, with that i wont need a trailer. Does anyone hav the fuel costings of a hilux like me friends.

also i do like the suzuki vitara but my mates hilux has a high lift , can the same thing be done on a vitara

In the end i know its all going to come down to what the"wife" says, she wants to down grade our cars to save on rego cost and spend less on fuel. The way she is talking im going to have to get a car that runs on solar power :)

Drew...I have had the sierra 90 model and it was fantastic. I think you would be a tad overstretched for what you would like to do with it in standard form.

I fitted a 1600 16V Swift motor into mine and used it to tow a 14' Quintrex runabout around Brissy and the sunshine coast. The tow bar limit is 550kgs!!

It is small and cramped but very light weight but read also...tinny, soft and noisy.

I loved it but with 4 in the vehicle you will be annoyed.

The best option in your size and price is a diahatsu feroza. 1600 engine standard and its EFI!
Read ANY report on them and they were the strongest driveline on the market...way over engineered for a 1600...so you get reliability.

Inside there are decent seats, plenty of room for such a small car...you can remove tha hardtop if you like but you get the option. Have the weather proof of the hard top or remove it in a few minutes for some fun. Air con is great too, but they drop out at idle so if sitting for awhile you need to bump the revs up slightly.
Only know fault if the exhaust manifold cracks on all of them. This is fixed by any exhaust mob...I chose MRT Rally in Sydney they boxed a up a complete system headers, muffler and tailpipe for a bolt on fit for $800 to Perth!!

Go the late model 'Widetrack" and you can pick a great one up for less than $10k. Factor in a timing belt, exhaust system and a complete oil change service and you will be great!

Matt.

Hi,

I had a Sierra many years ago, and believe me, with 2 adults and one child under 5, it was cramped and not really suited to taking the family out.

With the 60 series, I agree a good tough vehicle. Watch out for the roof rust. Can be a little sluggish in the diesel towing up hill so don't expect huge performance.

The Hilux (we have a 92, 2.8 Diesel dual cab) is a good contender. We packed the family of 4 (one a teenager) and managed 2 weeks doing the Simpson and Birdsville from Sydney without the need for a trailer.

The Pathy is a good comfortable vehicle and is great for towing, my wife's is a little thirsty though (although after spending Sunday on the tracks with her, I think driving style could also be a problem!)

No experience in the other vehicles suggested, but kids get taller very quickly!!

Cheers,

Michael

I had a drive of me friends Hilux today, I love it, wife hates it, she is complaining it is to big (she hated driving it) and she says it will use to much fuel. : (
We came to the conclusion that I will get a small 4x4 and she will get a sedan (corolla I think) which we will be use for long trips (non 4x4ing).
So
I need a small car, don’t worry about the trailer idea (we will only be doing weekend away trips and not very often, roof racks should be find)

Im test driving some cars this Friday, the ones I’m testing are the Suzuki Vitara (2 door version mainly, all 1.6ltr) and the Diahatsu Feroza. I figured I will start small and make my way up (When I get richer).

Also if I was to get a Vitara and wanted to join a 4x4 club, what are the main upgrades done and what would they cost. Eg new suspension, lift, bigger tire size. And just a ball-park cost of things if possible.

Oh and thanks for your posts, the info has been great

Drew

When I read your post about your wife wanting a small car I thought that rules out the Hilux. They are not big by any means but I thought your mate's jacked up one will look like a Kenworth to her. It looks like I was right.

Can I give you one tip in regards to modifications?: find out the limits of whatever car you choose before you modify anything. You will be amazed where any true 4wd can go in standard form. Modifications definitely have their place but they are a waste of time and money if you don't need them.

Start by joining one of the larger clubs and see what everyone else has done to their cars. I have been a member of a club with over 300 members for most of this year and the vast majority of cars that a I have seen so far look stock. I have been out on trips that needed plenty of low gear low range driving and I have followed convoys through areas where I thought they have got to be kidding but my stock Hilux complete with its split rims and stock size tyres has made it with little difficulty. I find the car is taking my wife and I to the places we want to go in its present form so there is no need to change anything.

On the other hand though the club certainly caters for those who want to spend all day winching themselves through next to impossible areas and there are plenty of members with extensively modified cars who want to do just that. It all depends on what you want.

One thing to remember with modifications is everytime you change something, it more often than not has an adverse effect on something else. If the advantages outweigh the disadvantages then could be worthwhile. If not then you are probably better off not doing it and maybe even buying a more suitable car.

Buy the car first, get some expert driver training through a club, take your wife out on some of the moderate club trips first and get the feel of things then start making a few decissions on where to go next. Don't start by falling into the trap of thinking every car has to be modified to the hilt before you can even think about taking it off the black top.

Brian

Had a suzie 1.3lt 1994 thing and I know it wouldnt tow....plus fitting 2 kids under 5 in it would still be in car seats and those sierras have joack all room.....although they are good on fuel..

like everyone else....go a little bigger in your vehicle...

you'll want / need something the kids will grow into not grow out of so go medium....why not a duel cab ute??

a vitara will be hard on fuel....if wanting something this size can I suggest a rocky...diesel and are a decent 4wd.

Good luck and I hope you find something....

btw..80 series are brilliant, although constant 4wd I would rather have that than having to get out to lock hubs...which we now have to do....

Laura

Between the Vitara and the Feroza I would go with the Vitara although make sure it is a late '94 on swb with the EFI. The lwb all had EFI. The Vitara's are fine for what you want and there are a lot more to choose from plus you can pick up bits for them cheap. The Diahatsu has very limited aftermarket support. We have one in our Club that the owner has had to go thorough all sorts of effort to try and make it as capable as a Suzi can be made so easily. Gary loves to keep referencing the difference in chassis between the Sportage and the Vitara but the the Vitara chassis is more than adequate, I should know given the punishment I have handed out to them over the years. The 2.0 4cyl petrol motor in some of them is not a Mazda derivative although the RF diesel in overseas markets is a Mazda motor. The 2.0 V6 is a Mazda derivative and is not the dog as Gary says but it could deliver more and can be made too. 235/75R15's will fit under a stock standard Vitara. Have a look around and see if you can get a swb 2.0 4cyl as they have a 70l tank standard, more power and torque and a wider track than the 1.6. if you want to learn more perhaps try and check out the NSW Suzuki Club.