4WD Mag trashing the track ..again!!

Submitted: Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 18:45
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My son just came home with the 4wd Action DVD on Cape York. I've been in the film game for a few decades and know that most of the stuff these guys do is set up for the cameras. What gets my goolies is when they trash the track for the sake of a shot. So here's that mug Roothie getting stuck in the Gunshot Crossing. "Oh Gee, I'll have to use my new OL winch cable, aren't they beaut!", Says he "And I've got an OT tree protector too." And he proceeds to chop up the crossing exit for the camera. Now, they cut to a wide shot and in the background are the other tourists waiting for these wackers to move on. There's a pair of Prados, looking pretty stock to me, either they managed to get through where this 4WD guru couldn't, or the poor buggers in the Prados had to negotiate Roothies' thouroughly chopped up track after 4WD Action's cameras had packed up and moved on.
Another thing that gets up my nose is when, like in this case, they say "I'm doing this trek solo." Solo my Rs! Solo ..apart from the film crew and backup units. The real problem is, kids and novices who watch this crap and presume that they can go anywhere solo in a beat up old heapa'.
It's about time these guys realised that the cowboy days are over. Every week tracks are being closed to 4WD's because of idiots like these. All they're interested in is selling a few more mags.
But, if they keep this stuff up, their mags could become history books.
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Reply By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 18:55

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 18:55
Interesting post Smudger.

After purchasing one copy of this magazine some years ago I promised myself I would never purchase another.

However... what will be even more interesting is to see if the people who produce this magazine choose to respond to this thread? The internet has changed the whole perspective - previously, if one disagreed with a publishers writings, one could only write to the journal in question to complain and they may, or may not, choose to publish the [edited] letter. The net means we can bitch pretty much uncensored and "conventional" publishers are tasked to answer for their decisions... if they have the courage to face criticism over which they have no editorial control...?

Mike Harding
AnswerID: 281604

Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:06

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:06
You can always go to the magazine in questions web site and put your views good or bad onto their forum , as an aside I had a good old chin wag with "Roothy" last Wednesday while on Moreton Island , twas the 1st time in 25yrs that have known him that neither he nor I had a can of beer in our hand , lol.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:44

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:44
>You can always go to the magazine in questions web site
>and put your views good or bad onto their forum

But as this forum is, probably, the premier forum in Australia for 4WDing it would be more appropriate if he came here and put his views forward.

In fact... it's rather surprising they haven't posted here already...?

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:23

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:23
Maybe "they" have ..... cue Twilight Zone music
.
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Reply By: Ken - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:06

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:06
Couldn't agree more ! It is exactly why 4WD has an image problem. These clowns have no idea how hard it is to sit with the land managers and argue for continuing access and against closures.
The object seems not to get somewhere that happens to have some difficult conditions but to prove how tough they are, the destination seems to be the least of their interest.
That bloke also sends a great message with constant references to beer which seems to be an essential part of every task he undertakes. Definitely not against having a beer or several, in camp or after a job, but fair dinkum there is a can in nearly every photo and some reference to cans/beer every few paragraphs.
The really sad bit is if, and probably more likely when, the tracks are closed these turkeys will move onto some other attraction. Those of us that value the bush for its many attractions beyond some tough tracks will be locked out as a result.
Ken
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Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:11

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:11
Ken, Off subject where you located ?? Regards Steve
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Follow Up By: Ken - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:06

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:06
Steve, Melbourne, why ?
Regards,
Ken
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Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:36

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:36
No Problems, was looking for another Ken that gets on here but is from the mountains here in Sydney. Regards Steve
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Reply By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:30

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:30
They definitely set it up as a challenge, Anyone who knows Gunshot knows that it is a difficult if not near impossible task for a standard 4b, and pretty hard for a modified one if coming from the north. The reason that particular track has so many steep entries is because people attempt them from the north. This means a difficult climb out rather than a drop in from the south. The lack of traction and relentless spinning of wheels eats away the bottom third of the track and makes it steeper each year. The wet season does the rest.
AnswerID: 281614

Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 08:55

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 08:55
David,

When we went north (& south) on the OT in 1998, there was another cutting in the south bank only 10 to 20 metres to the east of the infamous gunshot, which is easier. But you need to turn and run up the creek for a few metres to use the normal north bank exit. Was told that Telstra cut a new one most years.
Did the easier one in the stock pajero (with ATs) first go without too many problems.
My sister and other friends who have travelled the OT since then mentioned it too.

Is the alternative shallower cutting on the south bank still there?

If it is, why did Roothy take the hardest route north?

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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:05

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:05
Last season there was no eastern track and only one useable track. The western exit on the north bank responsible for rolling at least one vehicle was the one Roothy used as far as I can tell from the video. As he said. It was in bad shape.
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Reply By: Crackles - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:42

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 19:42
And who bought the Magazine???? Which in turn indirectly supports them to go out & do it all again. Break the cycle & dont buy them.
Cheers Craig............
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:10

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:10
An extension of this thought is to tell those advertisers that utilise the mag that you won't buy their products until the mag lifts its standards.

The main money is made from the advertisements and the cover charge is the lesser of the revenue streams.
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Follow Up By: jeepthing - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:12

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:12
Most of the articles are all about selling 4wd accessories etc anyway
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:09

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:09
>the cover charge is the lesser of the revenue streams.


Much lesser. A 1/3 page ad for 13 issues costs nearly $9,000. Add up the revenue next time you look through. There are undoubtedly a few favours done and those ads would be cheaper, but generally the revenue is pretty big from ads. Still it isn't cheap to produce a magazine these days.
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Reply By: apriti00 - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:06

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 20:06
Same thing again, once before I expressed my concern in the way the magazine promoted itself showing a blatant disregard to machine or environment. As they didn't even bother to respond I did what I thought was appropriate, no more subscription. I guess only by demonstrating that we will not be part of this behaviour can we hope that they take notice.
AnswerID: 281623

Follow Up By: Member - Rob P (NSW) - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:40

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:40
People,I think in general,the mag has given newcomers to our pastime,some very sensible and usable information that will help them in some difficult situations.I agree that it is mostly sensationalism on their part,but are you guys out there(majority of you that is) promoting and helping,would be first timers into this great world of 4WDriving???Yes I agree they might do some damage to the tracks they traverse,but would you not do the same in the worst scenario?? They are trying to give the heads up to the uniniciated of us.Which we all have been at one time!If we are so closed minded,how will we keep the tracks open if we dont have the extra support of newcomers?
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Follow Up By: Ken - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:04

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:04
Rob P

You must be joking ! Useful information possibly, but as an example to first timers they are a disgrace.
Can't speak for others here but I get the feeling from the posts that many people here support newcomers, are part of clubs, offer good advice both here and in the bush, and act responsibly. I certainly do and through a range of efforts from driver training to tag along tours, have set many on what I feel is the right path.
Track damage is often unavoidable and the question always needs to be "Do I have to do this?" Unfortunately it seems there are so many that have the sole objective of 'conquering' the tracks, their object is not to get to a great camping/fishing/fossicking/whatever spot.
Fine for them that wants that conquer things but they can't continue to expect to be allowed to continue to cause damage on public land.
Ken
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:50

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:50
>> Yes I agree they might do some damage to the tracks they traverse,but would you not do the same in the worst scenario??

Theres a difference in WORST SCENARIO and DELIBERATE FOR THE CAMERAS isnt there?
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Follow Up By: Ken - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 23:14

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 23:14
Truckster, my beef is with the intent of these people. It is one thing to be caught out by circumstance such as weather and in getting to safety/home damage can and sometimes does happen. If this is what you mean by worst scenario then you are right. In all circumstances I believe you need to ask yourself do I need to do this ?
What I can't justify is the mindless herd that roar of to places like Toolangi, Narbethong, Bunyip, and Wombat Forest each weekend where the SOLE reason for going is the challenge of the tracks. They are not looking for anything other than the excitement of the drive, they are not interested in the wildlife, scenery, isolation and all the other things the make the bush so important.
As for setting it up and doing it for commercial gain that is simply unnaceptable in my view.
Ken
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Follow Up By: jeepthing - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 17:50

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 17:50
If the intent of these "deliberate for the camera" stunts is to give people skills then it can be performed somewhere else can't it..like at a 4x4 training area like Landcruiser Mountain Park rather than on a well travelled track to somewhere.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rob P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 20:58

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 20:58
Ken,
Answer me this.What damage would the waiting Prados have done to the track?Would they have turned around and gone back in a different direction after seeing a 25+yr old truck get across with the equipment that they may have on board their late model vehicles.I think not! But it could be that it is the worst scenario for THEM...?
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Follow Up By: Ken - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 22:27

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 22:27
Rob,

As to what the Prados did or didn't do or what they carried, who knows, certainly not you or me. Speculation on this is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
As I said in a previous post, try justifying track damage to land managers, arguments like 'enjoying the challenge'; 'using a 4WD for what it is designed'; 'the bush belongs to us all', don't in my view and that of land managers, justify this sort of behaviour.
In many places, thanks to thrill seekers with bigger and bigger wheels and increasingly aggressive tyres, it has become near impossible for standard vehicles to use some tracks. I'm talking 'real 4WD's', not soft roaders.
Ken
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 23:29

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 23:29
>> In many places, thanks to thrill seekers with bigger and bigger wheels and increasingly aggressive tyres, it has become near impossible for standard vehicles to use some tracks.

Whats wrong with people liking a challenge? There have always been easy/med/hard tracks, there always will be easy/med/hard tracks that stock standard vehicles cant go. 90% of the time a bypass track there anyway. So as long as people arent sittin there diggin to china, start makign their own tracks thru virgin bush, or ripping the asshole out of the place and staying in one region to do their gear whats the problem? Even these hard/extreme tracks get dozed and closed every one in a while, which drives more people into less areas. BAD MOVE.

Its probably a bigger thing for people knowing the limit of their truck and their own skills would save a lot of tracks. I know of people putting their names down in my old club HARD/EXTREME trips that have 1in lift on AT's thinking their extreme. Some people have no idea of their limitations.

We dont all want to drive fire trails and dont all get to go to the outback as often as we like.

Better get out and lock the hubs and select low 1st - I can see some dirt ahead...
10/4 big boppa...
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Follow Up By: Member - Rob P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 13:53

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 13:53
Well said Truckster!! Copy that!!!
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:30

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:30
>> So here's that mug Roothie
Your polite about it!!

what about the high country one? Seen that? that is eye opening in the wrong way.
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Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:12

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:12
Sledging down the hills with brakes locked was the eye opener for me. Some advanced driver training wouldn't go astray.Not to mention the second principle of 4wdng. Think Assess Decide.eg Do I need to go there?
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:57

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 21:57
Smudger , its important that you always carry a copy of that magazine , as our last trip report shows they can be very effective as temporay immobilizers for broken arms etc.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Kath - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:25

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 22:25
Robin, I saw that someone actually had a legitimate reason for carrying Cosmopolitan last week. Couldn't you say the same rather than useless Roothy's mag? All sorts of interesting other mags.
Cheers,
Who?
John

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Follow Up By: madcow - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 07:57

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 07:57
Used the missus's better homes and gardens to snatch a mate ff the beach at Robe last year, 3 copies and apart from the cover they survived pretty well.
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Reply By: cityslicker - Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 23:55

Monday, Jan 14, 2008 at 23:55
I've been subscribing for years now and am just about sick of their stuff. I'm more interested in the geography of this continent and the great spots to explore and couldn't give a stuff about the massively modified trucks they showcase. The last few contacts with their marketing people have been a disgrace anyway. Maybe I'll give Outback magazine a try next time.
AnswerID: 281672

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:14

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:14
That is the way I am planning to go. Outback magazine seems a better product for the average mum and dad.
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Follow Up By: Scoof - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:05

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:05
Spot cityslicker, if they don't damage or break something (4wd or the track) they haven't had a good day.
Have to to keep greasing the sponsor's palms I think.
I'm also sick to death of the comp trucks it just about full of that bleep .
I will not be signing up again.
I wouldn't want some of the test drivers drive my 4by you can see they don't pay the damage bill.
I couldn't believe the way they treated the utes when they tested them for 4wd ute of the year.Bloody dangerous I reckon.
Roothy is so predicable why can't everybody see through this Guy.
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Follow Up By: Scoof - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:06

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:06
Should of read spot on cityslicker, arrrrrrrrrr
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 23:36

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 23:36
>> and couldn't give a stuff about the massively modified trucks they showcase

... and the hardcore people couldnt give a toss about outback touring rigs or 100k toorak tractors. So what do you suggest they do to appeal everyone?

Some how they are the biggest selling 4b mag in Aussie... So either they are doing something very right (I find hard to believe that that is the best that anyone can produce, although havent bought a copy in yrs), or the other magazines are diabolical...

Which is it?
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Follow Up By: Scoof - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 09:17

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 09:17
Ive been a subcriber for years but I find now that a lot of the Mag dosn't interest me any more.
If I want a mag full of monster trucks I will buy a monster truck mag.
Maybe my interest have changed.

I know I will not be signing up again.I'm sick of the content.

Another reason it's a top seller is the free be's they shell out when you subscrbe I ended up with a sleeping bag and a self infating mattress when I signed and the mag was cheaper than I could buy it from the news agent.
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Follow Up By: cityslicker - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 16:20

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 16:20
I'm sure the mag appeals to many others but as Scoof mentioned, I've only been renewing my membership because of the sweetners they offer. Maybe after all these years together the mag and I have just grown apart and we need to spend some time away from each other...
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Follow Up By: Scoof - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 16:24

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 16:24
Yeah it just dosn't float my boat anymore.

Scoof .. :-) ..
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Reply By: Member - Barnesy (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 01:04

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 01:04
I posted a thread here about 6 months ago criticising this magazine's attitude.

I think they were in the Blue Mountains and their pretty much exact words were:

"after rain and a few 4wds the track is chewed up and it may be closed. But when the track isn't closed then it's open season. And there is nothing more fun than driving through a big bog hole".

WTF?

The tracks are closed because of bog holes and they openly encourage driving through them because it's fun!

In the previous issue they were preaching 'tread lightly' and complaining about track closures! That was the last issue I bought.

Barnesy
AnswerID: 281677

Reply By: Axel [ the real one ] - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:11

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:11
This whole thread is absolutely amazing , the holier than thou attitude brought forth over a magazine / video ,, lets just ask 1 question of ourselves , "why do I drive a 4 wheel drive" ,, if its NOT to go to out of the way places that cannot be driven by the family road sedan you are being hypocritical , as for the 4x4 mags being advertorials what do you think you would have to pay for a magazine without ads ect ,, no one forces you to buy /read or watch.
AnswerID: 281711

Follow Up By: Smudger - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:13

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:13
Is that you Roothie?
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Reply By: KSV. - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:19

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:19
Yea, you have a point. Some people (like me for example) trying to get through with minimal loses because my aim is to get to destination and if I happens not to use my locks of HiLift all trip I am getting only happier.
While others going through just for sake of going through or test their rigs. Fine for me if happens in quarry, but you right why to trash track which meant to be use also by others, not by them only? And yep, as result of this irresponsible behavior we have more and more closed tracks each year.

Cheers
Serg.
AnswerID: 281726

Reply By: socket - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 22:12

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 22:12
oh lighten up ,what you need is a big plate of wombat poo stew or maybe some nana maskuri, a couple of beers at mudflats with some sizzling converstion with fat kevy or maybe chooka morris , and if your lucky roothy might give you a lift back to camp in milo. good on ya roothy & team for a great mag . dave long live milo !!!!!!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 281860

Reply By: Tahiti Blue - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 08:24

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 08:24
I am fascinated by all this........so I am going to buy the magazine to see what all the fuss is about!
AnswerID: 281886

Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 at 00:38

Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 at 00:38
Tahiti Blue go the hole hog and subscribe for 12 months. Ha Ha
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Reply By: Fnqt2 - Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 16:20

Friday, Jan 18, 2008 at 16:20
Hello, Roothy going up gunshot is not much different then the hundreds of tourists that go through there each year , as for track damage turning over a rock and churning up a bit of mud is pritty insignifiant compared to the coyboys and yahoos who scollop the landscape out iv seen gunshot ramps turn from a driveable ramp to an undriveable ramp within 15 to 20 minutes , i dont see any thing wrong with going places like gunshot as long as care is taken. Quite often gunshot is used as a mid way point for people to stop and take a break chat with fellow travelers and the like to which roothy could very well have been doing before the cameras were turned on.
AnswerID: 282274

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