Landcruiser Diesel & HF Radio

Submitted: Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:47
ThreadID: 53749 Views:4842 Replies:9 FollowUps:18
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I have a 2006 Turbo Diesel 100 series Cruiser and just before Christmas had a Barret HF Radio fitted. It was fitted by a reputable company. I am getting a high amount of interference with the vehicle running. The power meter gores close to full strength, turn the car off and I get two or three bars with no squelch. With some help from the manufacturer I have been able to determine the problem is not through the power line, as it goes away when I disconnect the antenna coax, it is picking up a HF signal from the vehicle electrical system.
My question to anyone that can help, especially owners of similar vehicles, am I alone has someone else had this problem and fixed it or do I have to just accept this as is? Ie I can only use the radio if I am stopped and turn the ignition off.

Thanks for any feedback in Advance. MMc
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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:58

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:58
Quite a lot on LC 100's and HF interference. Do a search on this site.
AnswerID: 282934

Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:01

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:01
Thats didnt get the link though.
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:59

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 18:59
You are not alone - I have the same problem - same motor - same radio - I've put it in the too hard basket - it was chronic in my TD Jackaroo too - many makes report the same problem - the radio has "big ears" and there are many gadjets and circuits on the car only too ready to send out the feral signals. A lot of VKS737 members do their comms early and late in the day while static - comming while mobile is a luxury that many members don't expect - that said, mobile comms can be very good at times, even with noisy electronics - HF does spring agreeable surprises at times.
AnswerID: 282935

Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:02

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:02
Thanks I was hoping that wouldn't be the case but expected it was. Do you pull over and listen to the scheds?
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 09:38

Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 at 09:38
I usually monitor the VKS737 channels while mobile (I'm a volunteer there)..........but while in the bush my habit is usually to listen to one morning sked and one evening sked. The messages for members are listed at the front of every sked (and regularly within too)..... if there are no messages for us, I usually say g'day to the operator anyway, if the sked is not too busy. The am and pm skeds are the best because HF mostly works best when the sun is lower - travellers are usually in camp then anyway, and with the vehicles are not running, good use can be made of the setup - there is a 1pm sked out of the Alice in winter.... you usually need to be in that region though (maybe 1000km away max) to get them at that time.
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:00

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:00
The Interference comes from the high-energy pulse going to the Injectors - if the S meter goes to full strength then the only signals you will pick up will be extremely strong ones.

If the Installer knows what he is doing he should know which vehicles generate high noise and warned you that a basic installation will not allow any reception while the engine is running.

If you just wanted an installation that only worked in camp you could have saved all the money on the installation and just run the battery leads to an Anderson Connector at the battery and used a long wire antenna.

Unless he explained to you that this installation would not work with the engine running, this installation is "not fit for purpose" under the trade practices act.

Apparently this noise can be reduced by installing ferrites on the Injector Leads.

I will soon be starting installation of HF in my electronically injected Diesel Pajero.
AnswerID: 282936

Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:05

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:05
Thanks Mike that is exactly the track I am heading down with the company I purchased from. He said after I complained that is was a common fault with the 100 series and yet said nothing to me before the purchase. I also have kept track of my many phone calls and lack of response to back it up.
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Follow Up By: hl - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:04

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:04
The noise does not come from the injectors, rather the wiring loom to the fuel pump electronics. It can be almost completely eliminated by cutting the wires that go to the pump and replacing the run with a short loom that is completely shielded and grounded to the chassis. A friend of mine has done this and it reduced the noise to almost inaudible levels.
A less extreme way (as suggested in another post) is to place clamp-on ferrite surpressors (available at Jaycar LF1290) over the loom, you may need a number of them. This is not as effective as the hard way, but it does make the radio quite usable when the engine is running.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: hl - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 06:51

Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 06:51
I might add that a very good friend has purchased one of the first V8 diesel troopies last year and there is absolutely NO noise detectable on HF radio when the engine is running.
Incidentally, it is the same with my ZD30 engine Patrol, no noise at all.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 07:42

Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 07:42
The ZD30 Patrol is like the NM/NP DiD Pajero using a Rotary Injection Pump and totally mechanical Injectors.

After having driving Petrols all my life with noisy Ignition and noisy Fuel Pumps, driving the NP DiD with absolutely ZERO HF oise was almost spooky.

It would be very easy for a manufacturer to make the minor changes to the design to make an Electronic Injection Engine (Diesel or Petrol) much quieter on HF - they already make sure they're quiet on the AM Broadcast Bands. But because few of their customers install HF, they just don't bother. Maybe the silence of the V8 Troopie is sign of changing attitudes to HF compatibility.
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Reply By: Footloose - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:07

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:07
This might give you some ide of the problems you face.

http://www.amalgamate2000.com/radio-hobbies/radio/common_rail_diesel__interference.htm
AnswerID: 282937

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:29

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:29
Gee Wizz, for an electrical / radio expert you sure do fall down on the insert link business :-)

Try this Common rail diesel Interference suppression
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Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:32

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:32
Thank you for that link, I wish I had asked more questions before I parted with my $3.5K. Now I have to decide if I want it as a mobile base station or pull it out.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:33

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:33
John, you're quite right. I got sick of being all things to all people, and now I'm just a man for all seasons :)))))))
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:41

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:41
PG, you'll find it handy on the skeds (around brekky time) and around camp setup time.
Locating the aerial on the rear, and putting ferrites on the injector wiring will offer a substantial reduction in interference. Bonding the chassis to the body, exhaust to body and bonnet to body will all help. But you will always have some noise when mobile unfortunately. But even my Waeco can make enough interference to upset things if I don't filter it.
A sat phone seems to be the only answer, and it's not exactly the same.

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Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:44

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:44
Thanks I will probably just do exactly what you have said, listen in the morning and evenings and turn it off while travelling. Thanks everyone for your prompt replys....
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:47

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 19:47
Parts Guy.
I have a Codan NGT in a Troopy and normally set it to Selcall scan and mute voice whilst mobile.
And then switch to scan both on all channels when at camp.
This suits my needs very well and allows me to receive HF messages via Bcon and listen to the VKS sched as I please.

Although the Codan NGT has some pretty good noise suppression its still not enough to silence the vehicle HF noise and allow me to enjoy the stereo :-) without major work as outlined in the article linked above.
Not trying to knock brands, but the Barret is also a generation or two behind Codan in regards to noise suppression so your fighting a little from behind the 8 ball so to speak.

I would think you you just need to adjust your HF needs to suit your limitations and vehicle setups always seem to have limitations.
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Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:03

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:03
I will ask the retailer if they will plug a Codan in for me and see if it is any better. Thanks
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:29

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:29
Here is another article

Diesel Injection RF Noise Suppression

I've also read that Fuel Gauge voltage regulator can cause interference.

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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:24

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 21:24
Th- Thr Thre Three and a half thousand!! Is HF radio really the way to go when you can buy a sat phone these days?? I dont know much about Sat phones but they must be a better deal than HF if you only intend to use in an Emergency?? Michael
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Follow Up By: SteveL - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:29

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:29
The problem with satellite phones is, who do you call when you're stuck in the middle of the Canning Stock Route or Simpson Desert? If you call Birdsville or Hall's Creek for a tow truck,a HF will sound like a bargain.With a HF you may be able contact nearby 4wds and get a tow, a part or some expertise to get you out of a situation.
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Reply By: GO_OFFROAD - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:45

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:45
have tou tried removing your dtronic?
AnswerID: 283020

Follow Up By: The Parts Guy - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:40

Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:40
no, do you think that might help?
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 12:16

Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 12:16
well, you never said you had one, and I seem to have got that right ;-)

one way to find out.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:45

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:45
I have a Barrett 950 + identical motor + identical noise problem.
I got a headache thinking about all those solutions with ferrites and capacitors and earthing etc etc etc and I don't like to chop into the reliable factory wiring.
I went down the path of fitting a noise suppressing speaker. Cost about $350 from memory from Electric Bug in Adelaide about 2 years ago. On the first setting, it reduces the extra noise to an easy listening level; On the second and subsequent levels it introduces too much distortion. But when stationary (and the fridge and fluors are turned off :-)) it cuts out a lot of the extra background noise, so I've grown to like it.

Its a pretty expensive solution, but very simple to install.
AnswerID: 283021

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:45

Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 22:45
I have a Barrett 950 + identical motor + identical noise problem.
I got a headache thinking about all those solutions with ferrites and capacitors and earthing etc etc etc and I don't like to chop into the reliable factory wiring.
I went down the path of fitting a noise suppressing speaker. Cost about $350 from memory from Electric Bug in Adelaide about 2 years ago. On the first setting, it reduces the extra noise to an easy listening level; On the second and subsequent levels it introduces too much distortion. But when stationary (and the fridge and fluors are turned off :-)) it cuts out a lot of the extra background noise, so I've grown to like it.

Its a pretty expensive solution, but very simple to install.
AnswerID: 283022

Reply By: The Parts Guy - Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:25

Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 at 09:25
Thank you everyone for all of your fedback and suggestions. I wanted the HF for the contact with other 4wd travellers and road conditions etc as well as an emergency situation (sat phone only gives you an emergency contact) , looks like thats what I have just need to be stopped to use it. Thanks again...
AnswerID: 283079

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