3lt nissan patrol

Submitted: Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 20:25
ThreadID: 53936 Views:8971 Replies:6 FollowUps:19
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With all the bad feedback on the early 3lt patrols burning holes in pistons,would love to know what do the owners do to fix the engine. Surely they don't just replace the pistons with Nissan pistons,is there mods to engine.With all this said there still seems to be a lot getting around. And yes I do have a 3lt and still going strong.
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Reply By: Member - Matthew ,United Fuel- Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 20:58

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 20:58
The problem is caused by faulty air mass/flow meters that cause overboosting and high combustion pressure issues resulting in failed pistons.

Normally the engines are replaced and the air flow/mass meters are replaced at the same time.If not the problem happens all over again.

Matt
AnswerID: 283976

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 21:13

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 21:13
Matthew,

Presumably from your answer you have seen a customer that has had his 3lt blow more than one engine? I feel sorry for the folk that have had the engine self destruct once, but how do you feel for one that has had it happen more than once?

Cheers, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 21:27

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 21:27
Trev, If those people where to explain their frustrations to nissan in swear words!, there would be not one square inch of air space in this country that wasn't Blue!!....lol


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:49

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:49
So Matthew, what you're saying is the current run of 3.0 diesels will exhibit the same failures as the early ones despite Nissan redesigning the engine?
I have heard second-hand stories of the later series engine destroying itself.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew ,United Fuel- Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:07

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:07
To date i have not seen a later series destroy an engine but have replaced several air flow/mass meters due to customers complaining of low power.

Engine design may have helped the situation but i believe the same engine management system is on the later models with no fail safe.

MAtt
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Reply By: Member - Matthew ,United Fuel- Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 21:25

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 21:25
Trevor

I had a an elderley couple that had an engine failure in there 3.0 patrol, had the engine rebuilt by nissan ready for a lap of the good country and they got to the top of greenmount hill and BANG engine gone again.

Fortunately after the engine was done for tsecond time we got it to dyno test and found the air flow/mass meter was faulty and causing the failures.The stupid part about it is the nissan system does not record a fault code nor does it go into limp,it just keeps banging away making more boost.There is a boost sensor on the intercooler for ecu reference and that is all.

Matt
AnswerID: 283985

Follow Up By: carlj - Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 22:08

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 22:08
sounds like you are happy with your chevy who did it and how much approx
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Reply By: Member - Matthew ,United Fuel- Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:12

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:12
Yes very happy.

Its a Vortec 350,roller cam,4 bolt main.ally manifold cost me $5K brand new with everything.

I fitted it all up around $10K with exhaust and aircon brackets and new pump.

Matt
AnswerID: 284000

Reply By: Chaz - Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:33

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:33
Hi Carl,
If you’re serious about getting long life from your 3.0Di, swing over to the Patrol forum and start reading THIS document by Patrol4x4 member Aksniss.

These guys are right and the MAF is often the cause of engine failures, but you don’t just want to go and replace it every time it fails. There are ways to prevent the MAF from failing and get long life from them.

Unfortunately the MAF isn’t the only cause. Overboosting doesn’t melt pistons, but overfueling will and another problem occurs when excess crankcase oil enters the intake, flooding the intercooler with oil that eventually mixes with EGR to form a filthy thick black grease that tends to block the rear inlet runners. This eventually restricts the intake causing the rear cylinders to run rich, resulting in melted pistons.

There are preventative measures for all these symptoms. HERE are some of the measures that I have taken to overcome these issues.

Cheers
Chaz
AnswerID: 284008

Follow Up By: Chaz - Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:36

Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 at 23:36
Sorry Carl, I messed something up.
This is the link…….
http://users.on.net/%7Easchulze/ZD30/ZD30%20Y61%20Reference%20Document%20-%20Colour.pdf

And the Patrol Forum….. http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/index.php
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Follow Up By: Member - Matthew ,United Fuel- Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:11

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:11
Overboosting will result in overfuelling because the MAF believes there is more air in the engine than there actually is and raises fuel quantitys to compensate .

The oil in the intake is a big problem and yes it causes huge restrictions in the ports of the head.

Keeping your air filter in good condition goes a long way to keep the dirt of the air flow/mass meter in the beginning which is what eventually leads to its failure.

Matt
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:54

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:54
Hi Matt,
Yes, I agree, but the problem here is uneven air distribution. The MAF tells the ECU how much air is entering the intake system, but not each individual cylinder. The amount of fuel being delivered to each cylinder is equal, so if you have one or two blocked intakes, they will be rich.

Overboosting will increase fuel, but the additional air helps cool the intake and combustion process and doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be rich. I’ve seen more ZD30 pistons crack from excess pressure than melt or have burn holes from excess heat.

Personally I feel that Nissans 40K air filter replacement schedule is poor. It should be more frequent, but in many cases MAF contamination comes from EGR and crankcase blowby.

The ZD30 EGR valve has 4 stages from closed to ¼, ½ and fully open. The ECU controls boost and EGR under certain conditions. Boost decreases, even under load, to increase backpressure and enhance EGR. If the EGR valve jams open, not only is boost pressure lost to the exhaust, but excessive EGR occurs under deceleration. So, not only will you get contamination, but air that has been metered by the MAF will escape through the EGR valve causing it to overfuel.
This is another problem that potentially is a time bomb, because EGR valves generally eventually fail.
Another interesting theory is that oily crankcase fumes make their way toward the air filter and promote MAF contamination when a hot motor is shut down. Fitting an oil/air separator can go a long way to reducing oil in the intake.
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Follow Up By: carlj - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 19:38

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 19:38
first up I would like to thank Chaz for all this info you don't always get this amount of help,it sounds there are quite a few who are in the same boat[Nissan].I would like to know is the 3'' exhaust part of getting the temp down.
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 20:06

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 20:06
Hi Carl,
Yes it is, but it also helps gain a bit of low rpm torque and improves fuel economy. The catalytic converter is designed to retain heat, so removing it makes a reasonable difference to EGT’s and exhaust restriction. Of course removing the cat and blocking the EGR valve is illegal in Australia, but it’s something that these motors didn’t need to have at the time of their introduction.
Fitting a 3” exhaust will also increase boost, so it should be adjusted accordingly. Another interesting little mod is to fit an electric pump to supply fuel to the Zexel rotary pump. Don’t ask me how, but this has reduced EGT’s by an average of around 30C across the entire range. Every little bit helps and it makes bleeding the fuel system a breeze.
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FollowupID: 548929

Reply By: flyboy - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:18

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 00:18
Being a GU 3.0 Patrol owner, I am also concerned about the day it goes BANG!! I have been trying to research as much as possible also...Seems to be qiute a lot of chat about blocking the EGR and reducing boost at the same time - I would be interested in anyone else's comments also about this mod. Also google "ZD30"...it gets qiute a lot of hits.
AnswerID: 284012

Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 01:12

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 01:12
Hi flyboy,
I’ve had my EGR blocked for over 30K and I think it’s the best thing I could have done. I instantly gained low rpm torque, reduced EGT’s and my oil stays clear for 10K.
My car now has 107K on it and my intake is clean.
I have done many more mods over the years and most of them were to reduce EGT’s.
I did change my MAF at 100K, just as a precaution, but there was no real need. I monitor all the engines sensors with OBD software and keep a close eye on MAF voltage. I also have a manual boost controller, so my boost rarely goes over 10psi and my EGT’s rarely see 400C after the turbo.
My car still makes 127RWHP, so it hasn’t lost any performance, but it’s much better to drive.
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Follow Up By: carlj - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 08:43

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 08:43
excuse my ignorance but what does MAF and EGR stand for
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:23

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:23
ow do you block the EGR?
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:31

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:31
Carl,
Your MAF is the Mass Air Flow Sensor and the EGR is the engines Exhaust Gas Recirculation System. EGR is in essence a part of the vehicles anti-pollution system and doesn’t do much for the motor.

Bonz, the EGR on a 3.0Di is easily blocked by replacing a gasket with a thin plate.
This way it’s virtually undetectable and the ECU needs to see that the valve is electrically connected.
However, if you block the EGR, you must lower boost because without EGR, boost will increase.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:33

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:33
next qn, how dio I lower the boost?
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:52

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:52
Hi Bonz,
That link to the ZD30 Reference Document that I posted above explains it all, but there are a few ways to lower or control boost. The most common is to adjust the VNT actuator limiting screw, by turning it down 1/3 to ½ a turn. This normally limits boost to 18psi depending on the state of the turbo. You can also adjust the actuator rod length too, but you should never shorten the rod. This will determine when boost is made in the rev range and too much at low RPM is dangerous for the turbo and engine.
Of course, before doing any of this you must have a boost gauge and preferably an EGT gauge fitted.
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Follow Up By: awill4x4 - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 10:36

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 10:36
Bonz, if you're after some REALLY good tech info regarding the ZD30 engine then I suggest you join the patrol4x4.com forum
There's some great info there on oil/air separators, boost control using "dawes valves", blocking egr's and a whole lot more.
Regards Andrew.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 12:06

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 12:06
I'm glad I have a TD6 Troopy.
I just drive it and have none of this crap to worry about.
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Follow Up By: Chaz - Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 12:43

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 12:43
Hi John,
I know what you mean, but your TD6 has EGR and will suffer because of it. Long gone are the days of 600K plus reliability from a new diesel.
The ZD30 isn’t a bad engine, but its fuel and emission control systems let it down much more than most. I bought the Patrol for much the same reason as most, and even after spending a few grand on mods to overcome the issues, it’s still good value for my money.
I’ve had a great run so far and wouldn’t hesitate to buy another, but I would modify it immediately knowing what I now know about the problems associated with them and how to avoid any issues.

Bonz, if you do what Andrew suggested, it will be an eye opener.
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Reply By: Member - Matthew ,United Fuel- Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 13:57

Monday, Jan 28, 2008 at 13:57
All points above are valid to all owners.

Fundamentally the ZD30 engine is good ,but the control system is crap and if owners carry out minor mods to the control system you will get a heap more life from your engine and save you sokme money in the meantime.

Matt
AnswerID: 284088

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