AGM Batteries Which one

Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 20:37
ThreadID: 54514 Views:2971 Replies:9 FollowUps:19
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I know i have recently asked on here about D/C Batt,but i'm going to this week ends camping show in Adelaide to buy one,now i have done a search in the archive's and most people are saying AGM FullRiver,now i have what you call a normal size batt tray under the bonnet which is were my D/C is sitting on right now,i am plainning to put my new 40 LTR along side my 60LTR in the back of the paj instead of the fridge being in the C/T so i sopose what i'm askin is what do i ask for at the show,keep in mind i have a 80 amp alternater and the money to spend on the new Batt is $300 dollars.cheer's GREENDOG
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Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:11

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:11
Hi GD

I would recommend a M/F hybrid under the bonnet. See what you can get a MRV70 for and call the 1300 BATTERY number to confirm if you are getting the best deal.

Regards

Derek.

AnswerID: 287137

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:11

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:11
I haven't actually touched a Fullriver AGM but I happened to be at Whitworth's Marine on Saturday and had a look at the Remco brand of AGM.

An 80Ah Remco is the biggest capacity I can fit in the auxiliary tray and the footprint of this battery is smaller than the Fullriver.

Boy, was the battery heavy.

Fullriver have a good reputation, but bang for buck, I think the Remco is hard to beat.

Bill


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AnswerID: 287138

Follow Up By: GREENDOG - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:21

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:21
Sand Man you say Remco have you any idea what no Batt just remembering it is to run 2 fridge's and is 80 amp enough.cheer's GREENDOG
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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:49

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 21:49
Now we are comparing two different ends of the spectrum of battery specs and technology here.

Get the Remco :-))

Mainey . . .
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 22:01

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 22:01
Greendog,

The 80Ah is "enough" to run two fridges. More importantly though is how long you expect to run the fridges on the battery before it will need charged.

Depending on the combined current draw of the fridges, you will probably need to charge the battery each day by some method or other.

I run one 40 litre fridge which has a maximum current draw of 2.7 amps, but this is not constant. I currently use one 40 watt solar panel connected to my 75Ah Thumper battery system. From my current experience, the solar panel puts back in daylight hours approximately what is taken out by the fridge over a 24 hour period, but I also have a 30 amp in-car charger to fall back on, plus the 80Ah auxiliary battery as well.


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Follow Up By: Richard W (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 05:47

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 05:47
Greendog,
I've been running a 100AH Remco in the rear of the vehicle for almost 2 years mainly for a 40L fridge and fluro. It replaced an Optima 55AH which didn't cycle long enough without recharging. The Remco was a bit cheaper than the Full River. No dramas with it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:41

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 12:41
If I'm not mistaken Remco is a gel battery. Different from an AGM. I had a remco 100ah that only lasted me 10 months and 3 uses in that time. It wouldn't hold a charge after that, even though I kept charging it with my dual battery isolator.

Maybe the remco isn't a dud like i thought. Maybe I was doing something wrong?
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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:24

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:24
Manufacturer : REMCO
Model - Type : VRLA Lead Acid RM12-00 (AGM Deep Cycle) Battery is SULFURIC ACID (not gel)

Mainey . . .
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:46

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:46
I have the Remco RM12-80 and it's definitely and AGM.

I have had it for two years but haven't used it a lot so I can't comment too much on its performance, but I'm certainly happy that it performs as specified.

It sure has gone up in price, 2 years ago I paid $230, now it's $320 due to the price of lead going up so much.
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 22:12

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 22:12
What I suggest you do is to have a look at the Remco batteries footprint size, (length, depth and height) and determine the biggest size that will fit in your tray, recognising the need for height clearance when the bonnet is shut.

From my research, the Remco has the smallest footprint for a similar size capacity in Amp hour rating when compared to other brands of AGM batteries.

Whitworth's

Note that Whitworth's sell both the Remco and Lifeline brand of AGM batteries and their prices are good.



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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 22:27

Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 at 22:27
G'day Greendog,

The topic of placing AGMs under the bonnet has been discussed before and although there are those here who say they are okay when mounted near the heat of the engine, I would be more inclined to take the conservative option with such an expensive battery.......try to mount it in the back of the vehicle. Look at the benefits:

1). Being an AGM it is safe to have in the cabin (unlike a wet cell battery)

2). The power you get from the battery is needed for the fridge/s ......right near where the battery would be sitting.

3). just in case there IS an issue with heat from the engine, your battery will be riding in air conditioned comfort.

You WILL need to get the charging system sorted out properly........

I have a 120a/h Fullriver mounted in the back of my truck. Charging duties are handled by an Arrid Twin Charger from the main battery. You don't need a HUGE cable and Anderson Plugs to operate this unit.

You may even decide to have a dual (permanently coupled) starting battery system under the bonnet, if you already have a battery tray there. Then you will have heaps of power for running all the "normal" stuff, like spot lights, winch etc.....all off the main batteries.

The AGM will just be used for the fridges and camp lights etc.

Cheers mate

Roachie
AnswerID: 287163

Reply By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 01:42

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 01:42
Mr Dog,
Yes, as you say Fullriver AGM's appear to be the most 'popular' AGM battery in general use, but the question you need to ask is 'why' is it so ??

The 'answer' is cause they are cheap, as in not expensive!
They are about the entry level priced AGM battery, this does NOT indicate they are a gr8 quality battery, as you can read on every 4wd forum anywhere, the question is always where can I buy the "cheapest" - not where can I buy the "best" quality.

As can be read in a post above the Remco has a smaller footprint to the same capacity Fullriver, that's because the REMCO is a superior battery, yes it costs more but that's not the question either - is it?

Some large 'Mobile home' manufacturers use REMCO fitted as standard equipment, I will bet London to a brik none use Fullriver !!

There are various other AGM batteries that are superior to Remco, but that was not your question either, was it?
Will you will go along with the majority and use the least expensive battery, or lash out and buy something that's superior..?

I cel em but don't use em, I also have to pay more but I use a superior AGM DC battery.
yes, typed by sum1 with a vested Fullriver interest :-)
still prepared to give an honest & unbiased opinion

Mainey . . .
AnswerID: 287184

Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 08:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 08:52
Have to agree with Roachie and Mainey.

Most people would not know a good deep cycle battery.

Because 70% of people use them does not mean they are good, you have to ask why is a $120 battery as good as a $350 one.....NO.

Some people would say the person selling then are making more money.

Most deep cycle batterys are not designed for engine bay installations as they are totally sealed, you have to remember most deep cycle batterys are designed for applications where the temp will not excced 25 to 50 deg.

If going in the engine bay you may want to look at one that can be topped up if needed (non gel type).

Don't know much about the hybrids but the look promising.

If buying one for the show make sure it is from a local supplier as batterys do fail under warranty and it can be dificult and expensive to transport interstate.

Why not try Independent Battery Distributors up the road from our workshop.....let me know and you can use our discount.

Regards Richard




AnswerID: 287208

Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:10

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:10
Richard,

I'm not convinced that an AGM cannot be placed in the engine bay.

I used to run an Orbital in the auxiliary tray in the engine bay, until I irreversibly damaged it by draining it too low, too often. (maybe 3 times). It appeared to handle the heat OK and did not distort like I have heard some batteries apparently doing.

I currently have a Supercharge wet cell battery in this location, but this is also a "sealed" battery. There is no method of topping the electrolyte up, so if it gets too hot and the contents evaporate as you say, then it also will bne cactus.

I am of the opinion that providing the battery is kept away from high heat sources, such as a turbo, they should survive OK.

When the Supercharge requires replacement, the Remco will certainly be put in its place.
Bill


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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:40

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:40
An Orbital AGM battery is fundamenatlly different to a standard AGM battery.

Cyclindrical-cell AGMs have the plates in direct contacte with the case allowing any heat from from overcharge to be dissipated out of the battery. Wetcell and Gels similarly have the electrolyte in direct conatct with the case allow overcharge heat to be conducted out.

Rectangular-cell AGMs have an air-space between plate/electrolyte and case making it much harder to get rid of overcharge heat.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:30

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 23:30
We have a AGM in the engine bay and one mounted under the body in the rear.

The one in the engine bay does not hold charge aswell as the other one, we have tried two of them with the same result.

It's not to do with heat effecting the structure but heat effecting the inside and seperating the chemicals and not regenerating correctly.

You have to remember most AGM's are not designed for vehicle engine bay heat....most are in a temp stable enviroment.

Have a look at the specs and see if you can get a temp versus output graph.

Alot of these types of batterys have a maxium charge and discharge temp of about 50 Deg.C, in a engine bay you get anything from 70 to 100 Deg.C.



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Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:57

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:57
I have an AGM 100AH in place of the normal battery in the Jackaroo, under the bonnet.

It's been there for 21 months now, and travelled 25,000ks, including Cape York trip, and plenty of running around Melbourne in temperatures up to 43 degrees. Runs my Evakool 50l for 4 days, and still starts the car.

It shows no sign of problems. It was a year old when I bought it for $80, had seen life in a UPS before that, on contiunuous float charge.

So in my experience, under the bonnet can easily be done. Also an interesting link AGM Batteries
AnswerID: 287232

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:22

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 13:22
>It shows no sign of problems.

How do you know?
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:39

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 14:39
That's what I call a light bulb question - why isn't it working today, it was working yesterday - answer, because it wasn't blown yesterday and it is blown today. The next question is invariably "why did it blow?"

In the case of my battery, the sides are not bulging, there are no seam leaks, the car starts every time, I can turn on every electrical accessory and the headlights and the starter runs at the normal speed and the lights don't dim.

Short of taking it in to a battery place for a load test, all of the above tells me it shows no sign of problems. Doesn't mean it won't chit itself tomorrow, but if it does, I'm happy with the $80 it cost me and the use I've already had.



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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:14

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:14
As it happens I'm currently involved in some testing of AGM batteries to AS4029 and the designing of electronic systems to comply with NATA requirements for same and as far as I am aware the only way one can assess the health of an AGM battery is by performing a full discharge test (ideally a number of them) in a temperature controlled (25C) environment which is why I believe motherhood statements of the ilk "It shows no sign of problems" are meaningless. Actually AS4029 also calls for a 90 "charge retention test".

$80! You were over charged (maybe your battery wasn't? :) the last ex. UPS AGM I bought (95Ah) I paid $50 - actually I bought two of them, one is still going strong (NOT under the bonnet) but the other died after about 3 months of very light use - luck of the draw.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:57

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:57
Great, I'll accept my motherhood battery for now, thanks, since it is doing all my car battery needs to do. If you say it's stuffed because you know better and it makes you feel better, go for it.

In the meantime, I'm happy to pay $80 for my battery which is still going under the bonnet - it seems you were ripped off not me, since you paid $100 for yours. (in case you can't follow my motherhood logic here, it's like this - buy 2, one no good, means you only effectively bought one)

And I'd be a mug to subject my battery to repeated full discharge tests, to prove it's OK, especially since the very act of doing repeated tests will stuff it for sure. That way you'd be right and I'd have to buy a new battery.

But thanks for proving my perfectly performing motherhood battery is really not doing what I think it is. I'll go out tomorrow and buy a new one, if I can start the car.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:45

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 16:45
Gerhardp1,
I would recommend a 'deep discharge test' to ANYONE who believes he could have a problem with a "storage" battery or is worried that the "storage" battery may die on their holiday.

The way they (the test) works does NOT damage the battery !!!
I get both my AGM's and also my Cranker (Delkor Deep Cycle battery) tested EVERY year before going away to make sure it is in a realistic condition and should not give me problems *IF* I look after them when I'm away.
( fortunately my Solar system does that for me lol )

Mainey . . .
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FollowupID: 552447

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:16

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:16
Settle down Gerhardp1:

you're arguing with Australian Standard 4029 not with me.

>If you say it's stuffed because you know better and it makes you
>feel better, go for it.

I have no idea of the condition of your battery - nor do you.

If you are going to make definitive technical assertions (as opposed to opinions) on the internet you had better be prepared to support them with technical fact and not an emotional outburst.

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 552457

Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:39

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 17:39
Mike, I'm well settled, thank you for caring.

For what it's worth, I'm also totally ambivalent about AS2049 and I could care less what NATA requires.

I'm also well satisfied with my battery, it's performing well under the bonnet, and I don't care if you say it's stuffed, since it starts my car every day I know it's not.

I'm not sure where I made a definitive technical assertion, it seems you are the one paranoid about that.

Since you are the self-nominated standard keeper of the internet, you should yourself keep your emotion out of it - just because you say an AGM won't work under the bonnet, doesn't make it true - in fact it's false, since I have had mine there for 21months or so. That is a fact, not an emotion, and your opinion won't change it.

In my many years of owning various cars over the last 40 years, my battery problem diagnosis has been 100% reliable - every time one has been no good, I've picked it - the car will no longer start, has low voltage in one of the cells, the post has fallen off, the acid level is below the plates, or whatever, and never a technical fact has been able to restore the dud.

So, I'll repeat my previous comment, my battery shows no signs of problems, but it could chit itself tomorrow. If it does, my 100% record of diagnosing a stuffed battery will remain intact, and I'll get a new one, like every other time. And I'll get another AGM, and put it under the bonnet.

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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:35

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:35
If your battery will start your car, it only proves it can supply 2% of its original capacity.
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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:55

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 18:55
Mike,

""it only proves it can supply 2% of its original capacity""

not ruly truly tru is it lol

Mainey . . .
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:06

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 15:06
The only other thing worth mentioning is weight of the AGM and suitability under the bonnet. I am told some AGM's are so heavy they crack the structure where mounted under the bonnet.
AnswerID: 287271

Reply By: GREENDOG - Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:52

Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 at 19:52
Thanks to every one that has replyed,there is defiantly a wide range of opinon's out there for the people in the know,so i guess i have got some thinkin to do but after speakin to Roachie,on the phone,whoops that just sliped out LOL it looks like i 'll have a look at those AGM's.cheer's GREENDOG
AnswerID: 287320

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