Diesel is economical??? ROFLMAO

Submitted: Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 22:53
ThreadID: 56649 Views:6378 Replies:46 FollowUps:114
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Get a LARGE capacity Petrol 4wd and fit LPG. At least 3.5L, preferably bigger, the bigger the better.

Wiith D at $1.60 and LPG at 60 Cents, it's not a difficult calculation.

Sure, some clown will trot out the old chestnut of NO LPG or ULP out in the bush. Carry a few Jerries and you'll still be in front by thousands.

My friends, it is simple Maths.

More power, less cost.

Jim.

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Reply By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 22:58

Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 22:58
Haaaa Haaaaa


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Reply By: Voxson - Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 23:11

Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 23:11
Yeah, Carry jerries of unleaded in the car taking up needed room on a long haul,,, volatile fuel....
Stupid petrol electrics to faulter on some cars with water crossings...
Untuned LPG backfiring the air filter box to pieces....

We can also pick petrol cars to bits also...

And my arguement is as good as yours..

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Follow Up By: TD100 - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:10

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:10
im right behind ya voxson,right behind hahaha Paul
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Reply By: Member - Pedro the One (QLD) - Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 23:20

Monday, Apr 14, 2008 at 23:20
Try Weipa diesel prices ..... $1.75 ltr !!!

And we are a town, well..... almost.

Makes one feel for the poor sods in the really remote areas, aye?

AnswerID: 298579

Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 00:19

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 00:19
Carry a few gerries of LPG?
It may be only 60c a litre but is only half as economical.

Have you really had a good look at fuel consumption figures for petrol V diesel once 4wd is engaged? Diesels still get reasonable figures but petrol usage skyrockets. No diesel would ever use 25-30litres/100km but it's common for petrols when the going gets tough. How are you going to carry around all of those extra litres of petrol out bush?

Carry around a few gerries of diesel and get far more range than petrol. You don't think this is an advantage?

Barnesy
AnswerID: 298582

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:03

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:03
This was a big consideration for me when I was customising The Landy. I looked at the option of putting in an additional tank for diesel, versus additional tank for LPG, noting that it wasn’t a cost exercise, but a range issue.

The numbers never stacked up for the diesel/lpg combination on the basis that there would be areas I would not be able to obtain it. The Landy has a range of say around 1,800 klms with the diesel tanks, the best I would have got with the diesel/lpg combination would have been around 1,300 klms (from memory).

Cheers
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Follow Up By: TD100 - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:23

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:23
i will stick with my diesel,towing a 18.5ft van all up about 2 odd tonne,the 100 series is not the lightest of the bunch with all the accessories in it,auto and cruise on to boot @ 100to 110km/hr averaging 14 to the hundred on the highway.try to get that out of unleaded or lpg--- i think not.Paul
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Reply By: Ianw - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 00:34

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 00:34
Not many places to get LPG at 60c tho'. Mostly over 70c

Diesel 8.5 l/100ks LPG 18 l/100 ks Do the maths again!!!!!

Cost figs mean nothing without listing the difference in consumption as well.

LPG = VERY Explosive = kills people, kids. Basically a bomb under the car!!!
High maintenance cost

Diesel = Not explosive = safe, easy to carry lots
Low maintenance costs.

Each to his own.

Ian
AnswerID: 298585

Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 02:03

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 02:03
A correction or two -

Not one accident in Australia has EVER resulted in an LPG tank exploding like a "bomb". Safety valve will vent gas which will burn with less heat than equivalent amount of petrol from ruptured tankand typically directed away from passenger compartment. Petrol tank = plastic or 1.6mm steel, LPG tank typ 4mm steel with safety and pressure tested welds and fittings to a considerable higher safety margin.

Diesel must be meticulously maintained with oil and filters. cost = higher.

Not taking one side or the other, just straightening out misrepresentations/misconceptions
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Follow Up By: Paul Grabonski. Vic - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:25

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:25
NOT true + Diesel must be meticulously maintained with oil and filters. cost = higher

Services longer on diesel than petrol. Triton diesel services 15K and Mercedes diesel vans 32k

Diesel will do 300k 400k 500k 600k and your petrol engine will have been rebuilt 2 or 3 times in those distances
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:49

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:49
"Not one accident in Australia has EVER resulted in an LPG tank exploding like a "bomb"."

A 2 second google search came up with 10 examples on the first hit:
LPG tank explosions
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Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:43

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:43
The term BLEVE comes to my mind whenever I see that bomb under a LPG vehicle.

I have seen enough safety videos in my job to make me think more than twice before getting a gas driven vehicle. Such a little amount of leaked gas makes such a big bang.
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Follow Up By: Member - Richard K (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:13

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:13
Do a youtube search for BLEVE and see what happens when LPG doesn't vent properly... Lets just say that when fireys are putting out a burning lpg powered vehicle, the sphincter factor is off the scale for the crew and you can bet that the station officer will be standing about 200m away!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:59

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:59
>> Diesel must be meticulously maintained with oil and filters. cost = higher

Any vehicle you wish to have last and not fall apart needs regular maintanance which costs
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Reply By: Ianw - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 00:41

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 00:41
And we (the taxpayer) paid for your installation!!! This must make it economical (For You)
Ian
AnswerID: 298586

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:58

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:58
Since that LPG rebate came in, I'd guess at least $1000 extra goes into the installer's pocket. Waste of taxpayers money - Howard's attempt to buy a few votes.
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Reply By: Member - RFLundgren (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:09

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:09
And lets also look at the longevity of a diesel vechile vs petrol. I would expect to get 400,000 - 600,000 kms from my diesel without too many issues compared to a petrol vechile if which I would be lucky to get half of that without major expense.

That I feel also has to be taken into account. Then there is also the availability of petrol, distance travelled, ability in regards to creek crossings etc.

Personally I would not bother with a petrol 4WD and will keep the petrol vechile relegated to going from home to the local shops and back. The diesel will continue to take me reliably and cheaply (in comparison to petrol) around this great country.

When I look at comparisons in Patrols at least, before I got gas injection installed I was getting 900 - 1000 kms on my 2 tanks with the diesel and my sister in law with a petrol Patrol was getting 550 - 600 on the same amount of fuel. I certainly know which one is cheaper.

JMHO

Cheers

Richard

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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:15

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:15
Yep; what Richard said!!!!!

I don't know anybody with a diesel 4x4 who bought it "cos it's more economical".... anybody with even half a brain knows that the all-up cost of running a diesel 4x4 is higher than an equivalent petrol vehicle unless it is doing heaps of miles a year.

In the case of (say) a long-haul 4x4 where it is started up and drives for many hundreds of kilometers each day (like in the case of an escort vehicle), then I think the maths WOULD actually favour the diesel.....they excel at this type of use (ie: NOT your usual stop/start suburban commuter).......

Roachie
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Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:53

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:53
Flipside?...factor in a new head every 100-150 thousand km, valves every 50-80 thou....

$1500-2000 per 100 thousand km is a lot of oil changes.....
AnswerID: 298590

Follow Up By: madfisher - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 22:32

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 22:32
Lots of petrol v6s are now doing 400000ks plus. eg comodore v6 Jacks v6s Patrol rb30s and 4.2s. Even Pajs do 200000ks with only valve stem seals.
What petrol motor are you talking about? Toyota 2.7s are the only motor I can think of that needs a new head if the tappets are not adjusted at 170000ks.
You hear of more turbo diesels blowing up than petrol motors.
Pete
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Reply By: Davo_60 - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 06:43

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 06:43
I don't think many buy a diesel because it is cheaper but more likely as it is better for the intended use. I don't drive my diesel cruiser around town too often but very happy with it off road and touring. I worry about cost, that's why I have a car for day to day driving.

Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:17

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:17
ditto.....
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Follow Up By: porl - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:54

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:54
I'm with you davo. Got a lux dual cab diesel after a sold my petrol prado for bush and beach. But have a yota Echo for round town - 5/7L/100km on the highway.

Why diesel? with a prado on deep sand in low range you can see the petrol gauge move ....

Now a diesel gas conversion - that sounds interesting but I just don't do the Km to justify the cost. And with that conversion you don't need gas at all if you can't buy it.
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Reply By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 06:53

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 06:53
Against the modern diesels, petrol isn't really more powerful and anyway, it's the torque that counts and the diesels, even the smaller ones like the LR TDV6 and the Prado 3 litre, both pump out more torque at lower revs than the Tojo V8 petrol. Then you have the Tojo TTD V8...say no more.
If towing and yes, going out seriously in the bush, diesel is the answer..its a no brainer.
AnswerID: 298598

Reply By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:29

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:29
Jim, this is an argument the diesel drivers will never relent on. They all have a vested interest ;-)

A very few diesel owners can make the argument that range of a diesel and availability in the bush proves their choice is the better one. These are the exception, not the rule.

The vast majority of 4WD owners spend in excess of 90% of their time/kilometers doing the daily commute. For these a petrol/LPG combo is by far the most economical. The towing argument is not relevant. Any modern petrol 4WD has more than ample power to tow your boat/caravan/horse float.

A large diesel (Cruiser/Patrol) will get between 10 & 12 LT/100K. At $150/LT this works out to $15 - $18 /100K traveled.
The equivalent running LPG will get around 20LT/100K. At 65c/LT this works out to $13 /100K traveled. Factor in the initial purchase cost and higher maintenance costs of a diesel and you're miles in front.

Exploding LPG cylinders? Pure myth.
Replacing heads cause of valve recession? Not relevant in modern engines.

As I said, for the few who spend a lot of time outback (lucky sods) a diesel makes sense. For the majority it doesn't.
AnswerID: 298601

Follow Up By: Richo (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:42

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:42
ummmm......check the resale prices for diesel versus and equivalent petrol/lpg model.
throw in the torque, economy, service frequency and yes my friends we have a winner
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:51

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:51
The resale for a diesel is higher cause the purchase price is higher, though the higher resale value usually doesn't compensate for the higher purchase cost...

In MPG terms diesels ARE more frugal.
In Dollars/Kilometer traveled they're not.
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Follow Up By: Jim from Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:02

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:02
John,

I could't have put it better.

Why so many people are emotive about diesel is beyond me. I base my decisions on economics and LPG is way in front.

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Mogul - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:02

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:02
Tell me where you can get LPG at 65 cents per litre, try around 75 - 80 cents per litre. We can all invent figures to make our arguement look better just look at the climate change debate.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:19

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:19
Invent figures? My local Shell, Chatswood Hills, currently has LPG for 59.9c/LT. I admit thats pretty cheap, which is why I used the more normal 65c. Currently diesel is actually $1.56 at the same servo, so if my figures are biased they're actually biased in diesels favour, which makes the diesel argument even worse ;-)
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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:28

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:28
getting emotional about this topic and then accusing others of the same is a bit silly - especially when there's clearly bugger all in the argument anyway, if you've got any common sense and do what suits you.
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Follow Up By: Voxson - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:21

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:21
****JIM SAID****
I could't have put it better.

Why so many people are emotive about diesel is beyond me. I base my decisions on economics and LPG is way in front.

****VOXSON SAID****
If your decisions are based on economics then i guess you would own a RAV4 on gas, only shop at Target, use only gas at home, own a 68cm crt tv, etc etc...

Each to their own i guess...


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Follow Up By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:02

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:02
well in my case My diesel patrol costs about $1.50 more per 100kms to run per than my old LPG patrol..........Forever trying to get a happy tune on the LPG, would have to switch to petrol on day one of a trip anyway no range on LPG. So it works out the same for me. Each to there own anyway.

Just wondering Jim has a gas installer donated a gas system to that dude doing the charity walk????

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Reply By: mfewster - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:41

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:41
Depreciation remains the highest cost component in running any vehicle (unless you buy an old model to start with.) How long are you fartoring in running your vehicle for? The gas tax concession is due to come off in 2011, after which lpg will go up significantly in price. A further factor. Diesel can be made from natural gas by using cobalt at prices that make it more than competitive with current diesel. Mercedes and Exon are already involved in developing this system and multi billion dollar plants are about to come on line in the Middle East.
Given that Australia has sonme of the worlds best natural gas and cobalt supplies, it wont be long before that technology is running here.
With fuel prices set to double again in the next three years, the real question is, how long do you intend keeping your vehicle? If buying a new vehicle and intending keeping it for 6-7 or more petrol years, I'd be betting on diesel as the best way to go. The off road, remote area advantages of diesel are beyond debate. If you use a large 4wd f mainly for running around town and you don't want it for many years, then the gas petrol option is probably better,( but try not to think about trade in time, because as fuel prices continue to climb, trade in prices will be ugly)
AnswerID: 298618

Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:34

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:34
"The gas tax concession is due to come off in 2011, after which lpg will go up significantly in price"

There is no tax concession, there is just no excise. In 2011 the Govt will start to apply excise to LPG. This will be at the rate of 2.5c/lt, applied over 5 years till the excise reaches 12.5c/lt.

Do you really think any of these new technologies will bring the price of diesel down?

(Psssttt... wanna buy a good secondhand bridge???)

The off road, remote area advantages are only applicable to about 5% of the market.

As fuel prices continue to climb, based on what's currently happening, diesel will be so expensive no-one will be able to afford it. LPG will be the only viable option.
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Follow Up By: nowimnumberone - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 18:20

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 18:20
In 2011 the Govt will start to apply excise to LPG. This will be at the rate of 2.5c/lt, applied over 5 years till the excise reaches 12.5c/lt
ive seen diesal go up more than that over night.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:09

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:09
Nowim etc
Sure, but as lpg is a derivative of the petrol process, its price will be locked to that of petrol and the exise will narrow the gap. While diesel in Oz is currently made from the cracking process, there are alternative sources of oil for diesels, including using lng to make diesel. Currently I run a Falcon with gas conversion. I'd argue that it's a better deal than running a small car on petrol, at this point of time. But I wouldn't want my 4WD on diesel, unless it was mainly used around the burbs or on sealed highways. There is probably a future in LNG straight, as used in some countries, but it has range problems that make it unsuitable for Oz 4wd needs.
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Reply By: KSV. - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:57

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:57
Everybody knows that LPG 4WD actually called shopping trolley :-))))))))

Seriously though IMHO Diesel only make economical sense for long ownership where owner doing all maintenance. Otherwise petrol + gas cheaper to own. Second-hand in particular with gas preinstalled.

That is for general use. 4WD-ing somewhat different. For example going into VHC means around 100L diesel from refill to refill (could be more). That means as least 150L petrol (very conservative). Forget about using gas – it will finish even before you hit track. Thus to be on the edge of safety margin I need carry as least 3 can of petrol (in addition to 90L main tank in 80), because I been stupid enough to put gas cylinder instead of long-range tank. Where you suggest to carry them? Inside? Illegal, dangerous and smelly. On the top? In high country where center of gravity already high enough? On the back? Overhang big enough as is with two spares and HLJ and AFAIK illegal. Any other suggestions? Plus with gas refill required each second day unless one completely crazy to put extra cylinder in cargo area. Plus as least in case of 80-s I remove my spare from underneath not for the reason to fit gas cylinder that hangs even lower! Not to mention water crossing. And last, but not least. I would rather smell diesel that LPG, although it is personal.

LPG 4WD for mum’s use? No problem. For trader? Acceptable, but expect refill each second day. For towing? Yea-a. If you happy refill each 200km. For 4WD-ing? Forget it!

This is my 2 cents for sharp as razor Jim.

Cheers
Serg
AnswerID: 298620

Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:05

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:05
"sharp as razor Jim"

Serg, I love your sarcasm.

cheers
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Follow Up By: KSV. - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:05

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:05
He-he.. GB, FYI I just post for sake of this satcasm because I *DO* believe that he is just troling.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 16:28

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 16:28
Well fellas, it has often been said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

You've proved it.

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Follow Up By: Steve - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:25

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:25
yep - a bit of trolling here Jim - you've raised this one before... you've definitely got a point but why another thread to make the same point? For some, LPG is great. I tried it - it had it's pros and cons - I'm not prepared to say it's "better" or otherwise. If it works for you, enjoy it but we don't need the lesson thanks.

meanwhile....back on topic...... I finally (last Friday) had gas/diesel put on my workhorse. Having had every combination including LPG/Petrol/diesel, thought I'd give my underpowered Defender a bit of a gee-up. It sure has done that. No stats yet but I can easily whip uphills that I'd previously drop into 3rd gear for, in 4th. Must admit to being a bit sceptical about "30% more power" claims but can now actually believe that thus far. No idea on fuel economy yet but as I'm off to Straddie tomorow morning I'll give it a good workout. I get 10/100 anyway and am expecting a modest improvement but the main reaon for me was towing up long hills (ascents) and sand hills were a bit of a problem as I didn't have a lot of get up and go compared to some petrol cars. btw $3600 minus Johnny's rebate, it's not too pricey esp for a ue with it's tax perks.

cheers,

Steevo
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Follow Up By: Member -Steve.NT - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:05

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:05
Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but it shows a high form of intelligence.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: KSV. - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 09:50

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 09:50
_Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx posted:
Well fellas, it has often been said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

You've proved it
----------------------------------
Never heard of it in that form. But what I do know for sure people who does not understand sarcasm actually >> not bright enough. So I would question who said it often when in fact it quite on the contrary.

Have a good day
Serg.
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Reply By: Andrea11 - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:10

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:10
Perhaps there may be two 4wd vehicles same size, one being Petrol/LPG and the other being Diesel that have both travelled the same distance out there, with all the fuel figures then a fair comparrison can be made.

Andrea
AnswerID: 298623

Reply By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:31

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:31
Well heres a thing. An agreement reply.

Today, the value of a diesel is grossly overestimated. The reasons for owning a diesel lie 30yrs back in motoring history and are almost irrellevant today.

Changes in petrol motor qualityand performance, electronic overcontrol engine management systems, taxing levels on diesel fuel, and over the top, parts pricing still being based on the popularity of diesels in the 80's means;

1/. Diesel vehicles now, really only suited to people wishing to carry/tow a load regularly for considerable distances, with the safety factor of a low flashpoint fuel.

2/. Watercrossings and todays electronics...........HaaaHaaaHaaa
( regardless of engine. If you havent had a problem yet, just wait )

Diesel fuel economy is a given. Has no one noticed that a petrol vehicle, fully loaded or towing, uses much more fuel than normal, whilst a diesel carries out the extra tasks without a major diet change.
AnswerID: 298630

Reply By: obee - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:42

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:42
And then one day the Chinese, the Indians, and the rest of the developed world burnt the last ounze of consumable carbon fuel available and cut down the last tree so they could make the last cup of tea in the world.

And then someone thought, "Maybe there are just too many of us for all this world to go around."

Owen
AnswerID: 298632

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:47

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:47
Spot on obee, spot on
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:45

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:45
This a post going nowhere!!!!
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

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AnswerID: 298633

Follow Up By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:04

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:04
the fishing's good today, eh?

Leroy
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Reply By: Redback - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:50

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:50
Aaaaww Jim, does someone need a hug


Baz
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:56

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:56
hahahahahahaha
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:56

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:56
LPG goes up the further out of town you are, not to mention how the consumption goes up when you put 2 tonnes on the back :)
13l/100 to 15l/100 for a diesel...whats your consumption of lpg towing a van??? 30l/100....each servo has different gas...some has different butane mix to propane, and out goes your economy and tune....oh, did i mention the under bonnet heat perishing hoses, leads, batteries and exhaust systems faster than the beloved diseasal :)
If you want to talk about how we are being ripped off paying 20c more for diesel than petrol...thats another story...make your own diesel 25c/l
Andrew
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Follow Up By: mfewster - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:14

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:14
Jim, You missed the point. I agree that for around town, petrol/gas is Ok. You are probably right that only 5% of 4Wd diesel drivers use them seriously off road. For the sort of driving most readers of this forum do, then the storage, range, driving characteristic advantages of diesel become significant.
Yes, we do have long term LNG supplies. But that is not the same as LPG which is made as part of the petrol process. The point is, LNG can now be turned into diesel at a lower price than current distilled diesel (whether that gets passed on to us is another question. As petrol supplies dwindle, diesel from lng will come on line, so it will be directly linked to lng prices rather than to petrol prices (as it now is because diesel is also cracked as part of the petrol distallation process.) It still wont be cheap, but it is a better long term bet than petrol/lng. Like I said, the length of time you think you want to keep your vehicle for needs to be considered. We aren't talking very far into the future here, 3-5 years.
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Reply By: Leroy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:02

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:02
'A large diesel (Cruiser/Patrol) will get between 10 & 12 LT/100K. At $150/LT this works out to $15 - $18 /100K traveled.
The equivalent running LPG will get around 20LT/100K. At 65c/LT this works out to $13 /100K traveled'

Gee only one reply that put a bit of math to the argument. You need to work out exactly how much is costs are /km or /100km.

With serviceing intervals virtually on par or better with a diesel and the initial outlay for the gas conversion, going by the rough figures above gas isn't significantly cheaper. It's cheaper but I wouldn't do back flips.

When towing my petrol vehicle (and gas vehicles I've had in the past) absolutly chews the juice. My diesel with the same load only adds about an extra 2l/100km not 8-10l like the petrol.

I'm not happy with the price of diesel ($1.689 where I am) either as its 22c dearer than petrol and gas is 82.9c but I don't think selling a diesel 4x4 to get a petrol to convert to gas is a rational option.

Leroy
AnswerID: 298637

Reply By: Rock Ape - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:34

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:34
All of you have it wrong,

Steam is the go.
Plenty of water, lots of mills and bores. Price free.

Plenty of timber, lots of trees, forests and plantations. Price free.

Chainsaw. Price $200 @ Bunnings

Axe. $30 @ Bunnings

Chainsaw/axe operator. The Missus, cost $1000 for ear plugs and thats not for the chainsaw noise either.

Steam engine. who cares just steal it. Cost, If you get caught 3 free meals/a bed and as much sex as you can handle.

So you can all keep your expensive diesels, petrol and gas 4x4s

See you can blow off steam nearly free, but try that with petrol or gas and the blow off turns to blow up and costs a mint.

The Ape.
AnswerID: 298641

Reply By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:37

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:37
I just love that people are so insecure in life that they need to justify their own purchases on others to feel assured??

That is sooooooooo sad. Grow up people and accept that we are all individuals and free to choose for ourselves...We all complain about the ANTI-4WD brigade yet we all are quick to follow their dispicable tirade of abuse when someone has a choice dissimilar to our own.

How about air-locker, engel, landrcruiser, petrol......oh no thats right it has to be auto locker, waeco, patrol, diesel....oh no maxi, coleman, Landy, gas pfft get a life!

sad sad sad

Nice fishing Jim!!!

AnswerID: 298642

Follow Up By: Member - David.M.C - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 19:29

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 19:29
Perfectly put Matt
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FollowupID: 564855

Reply By: mfewster - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:44

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:44
Whoops, my last reply should have been to MrBitchi, not Jim.
I am surprised that no-one has challenged my comments on the lng/diesel process. I find it incredible that this technology seems unknown in Australia, given our lng and cobalt reserves.
check this for example
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7815172/
If one wanted a new 4wd at the moment, I'd suggest getting a 60 series Toyo diesel and putting the $50000 I'd save into a company that had big cobalt reserves. BHP for one. I think that what you will make over the next decade will more than cover the fuel price rises.
AnswerID: 298644

Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:04

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:04
Interesting article, given that it was written in 2005.

"The fuel will be sell for more than conventional diesel, and is hugely profitable with current oil prices above $50 a barrel. But Shell will still profit if oil drops to $20"

Wonder how much profit they're making now that oil's over $100/barrel? As I said, do you really think it's going to lead to cheaper fuel? Not while my a##e points to the ground me thinks ;-)
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FollowupID: 564776

Follow Up By: mfewster - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:16

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:16
Mr B. Of course it leads to cheaper fuel. The question is, cheaper than what? Cheaper then now? No, demand is outstripping supply. Cheaper than it would have been otherwise? Almost certainly. It doesn't make it cheap, but given the planet's reserves of natural gas versus reserves of petrol, it has to be cheaper than petrol in the long run. I read somehere a few months ago that this technology is also of interest to the aviation industry. There is no way to run aircraft on LPG, but diesel may have some prospects.
By the way, I don't buy the arguments on the longer life of diesels versus petrol engines. It was the case for diesels when they were designed for trucks, but modern car diesels are built much lighter to keep weight (and therefore fuel consumption) down. With the exception of diesels like the old Pug 504, I can't see the new range of car diesels lasting any longer than petrol engines. There is nothing inherent in diesel design that means they will last longer. Just ask Nissan 3.0 owners. The trucklike diesels fitted to most 4Wds are a different matter however.
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Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:27

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:27
I find cost / benefit analysis almost irrelevant and I suspect many others are of the same opinion when you look at the various customising that is done on four wheel drive vehicles, especially within this forum. I mean, look at Roachie’s rig (great rig!), but fuel costs kind of take a back-seat when you consider what it is you are trying to achieve. (Correct me if I’m wrong Roachie!)

Janet (SWMBO) has already told me that I need to live to 150 and drive The Landy around Australia every other week to make it pay for itself. Fuel consumption is less of a cost issue for me, when taking the total vehicle cost into account. The reason I set it up the way I have is for long range travel and therefore range is the key. I could have set the vehicle up with diesel/lpg combination and achieved a better overall fuel cost, but at the expense of range.

Another important factor to consider about fuel alternatives, such as lpg and bio-diesel is that in the long-term it will not be the cost of production that determines price, but demand. The price will eventually close to a much narrower margin versus oil based petroleum products.
AnswerID: 298657

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 14:40

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 14:40
Exactly right mate..... If I bought my 4 wheel drive based on a cost/benefit ratio, I would have ended up with some poxy little chit-box (I'm gunna resist the urge to name any particular brand/model, for fear of upsetting anybody.....but you all know who you are....hahahahaha) and been a good mate of Harold Screwball.......

I bought my current rig due to:

(a)the additional power of the engine ($20K +/-), which should mean that it can do what I ask of it without even raising a sweat...and

(b) the additional space provided by the dual cab arrangement ($15K +/-)

(c) the fact that it already had LPG injection fitted ($3K+/-)

Just 3 factors combined equalled the purchase price I paid for it, so you can see why I didn't bother getting my own 4.2TD converted over.

It's the same with tyres for goodness sake..... people seem to be tied-up in knots over how many hundreds of thousands of kilometers they can get out of a set of tyres. I'm more interested in whether my tyres DO THE JOB I bought them for. If I have to buy a new set every 25,000 klm, then so be it. I change them once they get down to about 25% tread anyway, as I don't want to risk a tyre failure in a remote location. If I were to do a cost benefit ratio on tyres I would end up with some super-soft-walled HTs (or whatever) that would last me 100,000klm, IF I stayed on the black top. How boring!!!!!!!!!!!
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FollowupID: 564785

Reply By: Member - Pixie - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:05

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:05
ECOnomy can be measured in alot more ways than what YOU pay at the bowser and what YOU pay at the mechanic and what YOU pay to drive 100klm.
AnswerID: 298662

Reply By: Member - Tour Boy Springsure- Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:44

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 13:44
Hi guys most of you know I drive a lpg/pet vehicle and that suits me. The only place I couldn't get LPG was Normanton and Karumba. So I just used petrol from burke and wills roadhouse (yes you can get gas there) to Karumba then I used gas from karumba to Koolata /new dixie. I have the conversion that keeps both standard petrol tanks and has dual LPG tanks. All you need to do is search the fuel companies online b4 your trip and you can plan for this.
When I sell it I will buy another (not diseasel).
Also that the hardcore comp trucks are now mostly running petrols and auto unlike years ago of diesels and manual boxes..
Just a thought

Dave
Cheers,
Dave
2010 Isuzu FTS800 Expedition camper
2015 Fortuner
Had 72 cruisers in my time

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AnswerID: 298673

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 14:29

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 14:29
Do you intend to own your vehicle 6 months?
yea diesal is way to dear ATM but it was only a few months back there was almost no difference between diesal and petrol
point is price difference change all the time .
gas was usally about $1.00 per litre at the capricorn roadhouse with none till pt headland.
no good for us as the vehicles spent 2-3 weeks at a time cruising the pilbarra - nothing but Diesal at our bowsers
i bought my wagon primarily because it was fully kitted out fr off road work and was cheaper than any petrol or gas powered vehicle.
AnswerID: 298679

Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 14:58

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 14:58
You are a clown Jim. For somebody who is supposed to be promoting their business on this forum you make some dumb comments.

Simple maths?
LPG up here in Pt Hedland is around 90c-$1.00. Diesel $1.70. A LPG 4wd would use upwards of 20l/100km whereas my GQ with 300 000km on the clock is using 12l/100km cruising on 110. You work out the maths on that. Thousands in front?

If you can't see the benefits of diesel for outback touring then I worry for the customers of your business who you are giving advice to.

Barnesy
AnswerID: 298685

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:13

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:13
You need to explain the correlation between my opinion on fuel costs and the quality and value of my _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx.

Makes about as much sense as choosing an electrician to wire your house based on the fact that he drives a Falcon Ute and you think he should drive a Holden.

Cheers,

Bozo.

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FollowupID: 564814

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 18:23

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 18:23
It's your business and I hope it goes well. If you want people on this forum knowing that you obviously don't understand something as simple as why the vast majority of 4wders and travellers in rural and remote areas drive diesels, well that's up to you.

I suppose most of your business would come from Victorians who don't have to worry about the price of diesel. I'm not the only one who has disagreed with your silly comments in the original post.

For example: If I was choosing an auto leccy and he said Toyota 4wds were crap and gave some ridiculous, close-minded reasons for it, well, I would doubt his judgement.

If you don't want me to be honest.....

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FollowupID: 564829

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:21

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:21
You've now called me a clown and silly because you disagree with me.

Not at all nice, and I doubt it is something you do to people face to face.

Funny how people do things from behind a keyboard.

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FollowupID: 564860

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:21

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:21
Someone called me a clown once for a having a different opininion on a matter. Not all that long ago either. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.


And with comments like this, its no wonder you thought the Button Car Plan was such a good thing:

" AND with 80L of ULP and 70L of LPG it has much greater range than an 80L diesel tank. "


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FollowupID: 564887

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:23

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:23
Look Jim this is getting a bit childish isn't it?

YOU are the one who called people clowns who say lpg and ulp are hard to get out bush.

YOU are the one making silly comments about diesel being uneconomical. When with only a little thought you could see that it isn't, when used for towing or out bush.

Are you really rolling on the floor laughing your arse off like you typed in the original post?
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FollowupID: 564889

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:29

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:29
You have completely lost me Barnesy.

I'll not insult you, just add you to the list.

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FollowupID: 564893

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:37

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:37
OT,

The Button Car Plan?

WTF does that have to do with Fuel choices and economy?

FFS, you advocated LPG in an earlier post on this thread. What drugs are you on?

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FollowupID: 564896

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:00

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:00
BaaaHaaaHaaa............................What drugs are we on ????

The Button Car Plan has plenty to do with fuel choices and economy. It is part of the process that determined the vehicles types and brands we are driving, in Australia today.

It is also has a lot to do with people calling other people clowns, from behind their keyboard. Perhaps you should try recalling some of your other threads.
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FollowupID: 564908

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:02

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:02
That original post was really charming Jim. If you want nice, friendly replies to your posts then calling people clowns and ROTFLMAO at a bloke's diesel 4wd isn't the way to get them.

Don't you don't like being called a clown? Look again at your original post!
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FollowupID: 564910

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:31

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:31
Ignoramus,

I was just offering some information.





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FollowupID: 564916

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 00:35

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 00:35
Barnesy

Your very out spoken, whats wrong?

Regards

Richard
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FollowupID: 564931

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 03:25

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 03:25
Richard, treat people as you want to be treated yourself. The original post was hardly friendly and Jim had a sook when someone reacted negatively to his smart arsed comments. I didn't call him anything that he didn't mention in the original post.

If you don't want negative reactions then don't make smart arsed posts. Simple. It has also been a slow day for me off work Richard. Too hot outside (38) and I couldn't get the bloody EGT to work.

But I suppose Jim has gotten what he wanted, nearly 40 replies to a post that required little thought or effort.

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FollowupID: 564940

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 21:10

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 21:10
Hay Barnesy, mine wasn't a "If you don't want negative reactions then don't make smart arsed posts" it was just a question, you do not seem to be this on there comment's you have made.
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FollowupID: 565094

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 22:22

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 22:22
Richard, i wasn't having a go at you. I was explaining why I was criticising Jim. He was making himself look silly and I was being honest with him. Sometimes someone being blunt, straight forward and honest is the best thing fo you.
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FollowupID: 565121

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 23:14

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 23:14
Thanks
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FollowupID: 565133

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 07:10

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 07:10
Barnesy,

You are calling me silly because I have made a factual statement that you don't want to hear.

Try reading the above response from Mr Bitchi and see if you can understand. You don't seem to have the capacity for logical and objective reasoning, so may not get it. Anyway, give it a try, but take off your blinkers first.

Jim.



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FollowupID: 565142

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 14:09

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 14:09
If LPG works for you Jim go for it. But i don't live in suburbia, and for me and anyone else living country LPG is certainly not economical. Diesel wins hands down without a contest.

Not once have you recognised this and from the title of the post you obviously have no idea stuck way down south surrounded by suburbs in every direction.

LPG economical???? ROFLMAO
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FollowupID: 565186

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 14:42

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 14:42
Now I'm convinced you are either thick or just a nasty piece of work.

Go back and read the original post, my whole point was based on D $1.60 and LPG $0.60, that obviously doesn't apply to you so why enter the debate?

I put up some useful information for people to consider and you try to poke holes in it for no useful reason.

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FollowupID: 565190

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 01:15

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 01:15
I bought my diesel because LPG was hard to get out bush. You said anybody who states this is a clown. Oh well, I guess I'm a clown.

I like my diesel because it is economical out bush especially when towing and 4wding. And you are ROFLYAO at this reason too. I don't mind, I really don't.

Somebody further down typed something that makes sense: You know how to flog a dead horse Jim.
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FollowupID: 565285

Reply By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:14

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:14
As opposed to what some of you think, this was never intended as a Troll. It was about the cost to FUEL your vehicle.

Facts
According to the windscreen sticker my 4L V6 Courier returns 13.4L/100km under the ADR81/01 test. The Ford Ranger 3L T/D achieves 10.5. We all know these figures are near impossible to reproduce in the real world but they are relevant for comparisons.

My V6 running on Sequential LPG uses 10% more than ULP, so I'll say the V6 on LPG uses 14.7L/100km.

V6=$8.82/100km (at $0.60/L)
T/D=$16.80/100km (at $1.60/L)

OR

V6=$11.76/100km (at $0.80/L)
T/D=$14.70/100km (at $1.40/L)

And the V6 will blow the T/D into the weeds. Yes, even towing if you're prepared to keep the revs up when a big hill approaches.

AND with 80L of ULP and 70L of LPG it has much greater range than an 80L diesel tank.

AnswerID: 298690

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:31

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:31
G'day Jim..... I'm tempted to ask the question:

"And your point is????"

But I think I do actually get your point.............. you're trying to justify (to yourself), why you bought the vehicle you did......;-)
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FollowupID: 564788

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:42

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:42
Other way round Bill, I did the figures and then chose the vehicle.

Must get around to sending you the info you asked me about regarding you know who.

Jim.

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FollowupID: 564792

Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:44

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:44
So vehicle with 150 litres of fuel onboard gets better range than one with 80 litres? Wow! Guess you've convinced me.
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FollowupID: 564793

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 16:59

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 16:59
Jim said: Cost to FUEL your vehicle.
I said: in remote areas whilst travelling when LPG is $1.00 a litre then it is the same cost as a diesel (cruising on the highway without towing). By my figures LPG around $20 /100km. My old GQ is $20.40/100km. You know Jim those extra 40c/100km would really add up over a few hundred years.

Towing on LPG, 25-30l/100km. Those figures go up to $30/100km.

Then what's the towing range for a 70 litre LPG tank? 200km? Then you switch to petrol costing $1.50/litre. You still end up at around $25-30/100km.

You see Jim I too can play around with figures and numbers to support my argument.

Have a look on this site for the fuel consumption figures for crossing the Simpson. Compare 6 cylinder diesels to petrols. Then work out how you are going to carry all of that extra fuel on board with you. Don't forget to factor in the cost of buying the extra litres of petrol out bush, and also the extra weight you have to cart around.


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FollowupID: 564810

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 19:01

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 19:01
Gday Jim,
You've changed the question from the original
"Diesel is economical??? ROFLMAO"
to the "cost to FUEL your vehicle".

Bit unfair this far into a thread!!

Cheers
phil
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FollowupID: 564847

Reply By: Mainey (wa) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:25

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 15:25
The post is entitled ""Diesel is economical ??? ROFLMAO""

Which admittedly got my attention, as I stepped from a 5 Litre V8 Holden into a small 2.4 Litre Toyota DIESEL, some 20+ years ago.
The vehicle has since done over 600,000 Klms and been on beaches and over the GRR a few times and to some out of the way places where smart people would not even think of taking a vehicle they lovingly polish and care for, because I don't, I drive it till it fails then replace it.

It has the oil changed a few times a year and has NEVER seen a mechanic since it run out of Toyota new vehicle warranty some 20+ years ago.

I'm sure I could not have done this with a petrol or gas powered vehicle, there is no gas or petrol in most of the places I have stayed, every station in the bush has Diesel, most simply don't have any need for petrol engines.


Then I really have to wonder why ALL (as in EVERY semi-trailer) large trucks and EVERY WA mine-site vehicle ALL use Diesel engines and NOT gas or petrol engines.

Is it only because of the huge torque available at VERRY low engine revs where petrol engine is at very HIGH revs, or is it because they are just more efficient at hauling large loads, eg Caravan on a 4x4..
What's more important when travelling, vehicle performance or bank account ??

Yes, I believe a Diesel is more economical when used for TRAVELLING this wonderful country, however the same vehicle when used as Mums taxi it's probably not an economical vehicle at all!!
Just adds more questions than answers ?

Mainey . . .

AnswerID: 298692

Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 16:46

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 16:46
Jim


That is alright if you reside in the big smoke. LPG is not quite that cheap in beautiful Katherine.

I have owned both LPG/Petrol and Diesel vehicles. I would have a diesel anyday.

Do some simple maths on the pricing in other than the big smoke.

More power, less cost. I use my vehicle often for towing. Diesel is a far better tow vehicle due to the torque and economy.

If you live in the city - LPG
If you live in the country - Diesel
If you tow - Diesel



Tjilpi
Life's great and it just keeps getting better

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AnswerID: 298706

Follow Up By: Gossy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:21

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 17:21
completely agree. And lets not forget the conversion costs to LPG. Probably already mentioned but there is now way I'm reading this whole forum!!
Economy of LPG per km is very bad when asking your vehicle to push it hard therefore the LPG doesn't last long anyway.
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Follow Up By: mowing - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 18:52

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 18:52
At last! a simple answer that makes pure logic! Well done.

Regards

Mark
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FollowupID: 564843

Reply By: Ianw - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:15

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:15
Phew!!!! Got to the end at last. Took a while!!! OR IS IT THE END??? I doubt it!
Ian
AnswerID: 298741

Reply By: autosparky - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:55

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 20:55
diesel well we pay more , get more miles when travelling in safety when touring , thats why i bought the kinder suprise for driving round town . diesel or petrol we still need it and kevin dudd and other govt cronies wont do anything until we dont need it any more
AnswerID: 298753

Reply By: Crackles - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:01

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:01
For those that do less real 4x4 driving than they do talking about it and use their Toorak tractor as a daily driver then I suppose the petrol/gas option could be seen as superior. On a recent Easter run to Wonnangatta we left a petrol/gas 80 series in camp for the day as with his poor range it simply wouldn't have made it out. Meanwhile all the diesels drove for another 7 hours & still put less dollars of fuel in at the bowser. On the Madigan crossing the petrols were carrying almost 500L, diesels 300. Extra long range tanks all cost more dollars and that extra weight puts additional strain on all components not to mention relocation of spare wheels but then if one doesn't go far well then it wouldn't matter.
So Jim what's the range of your bus on Gas. 250 to 300 km? That will see you heading to the servo 3 times more often to get your cheap fuel. Your time is obviously not important to you as over the next 200,000 KM you'll spend several days just filling up :-)
The one thing petrol owners always forget to add into the equation is the times they add petrol whether it be to get additional power for towing, climbing hills or because simply in remote areas there is no gas available. Gas users I travel with on trips regularly need to put petrol in but always conveniently forget to mention that in fuel calculations. Funny that but if one doesn't go 4x4ing often or very far from civilization then that wouldn't matter would it Jim?
Cheers Craig..............
HZJ105 (Diesel)
AnswerID: 298757

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:43

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:43
I don't drive a Bus Craig.

I drive a Ute that is cheap as chips to run. The bloody thing flies.

Jim.
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FollowupID: 564899

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:18

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:18
When I said "Bus" I was speaking metaphorically but I guess you already knew that so can only asume you are dodging the question? ;-) I have no doubt it's is cheap as chips run as we've had them at work. Ironically they tried the gas experiment with many of our fleet but with the higher overall running costs & down time almost every vehicle is now diesel. Thank god as we were sick of refueling every single day.
Cheers Craig............
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FollowupID: 564914

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:23
My apologies for the smart arsed reply Craig.

I'm currently getting 350km out of the 70L tank. That should improve as I drive it more and get used to it. You see I've been driving Autos for years and to now be in a 5 speed manual with 154kW I'm driving it a bit like a sports car.

I should have grown up at 46. Maybe one day I will LOL.

Jim

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FollowupID: 564969

Follow Up By: Crackles - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 17:24

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 17:24
No apolology required Jimbo as there is more than you & I stirring the pot here :-)
It turnred out a very entertaining thread & even a few facts were shared on both sides for those contemplating which way to go.

Cheers Craig..............
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FollowupID: 565049

Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 20:43

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 20:43
using "National Average Fuel Price" numbers shown here on-site today.

Jim's LPGas -> 350 Km from 70 Litre tank
= 20 Litres per 100 Km
@ 74 Cents per Litre = $51.80 Tank


My 2.4Lt Diesel -> 470 Km from 55 Litre tank
= 11.7 Litres per 100 Km
@ 166 Cents per Litre = $91.30 Tank

Prices for LPG and Diesel are far more expensive up north where most enjoy the good winter weather, however because a diesel engine is more fuel efficient it would then cost less on a heavy load towing or bad track situation with their much higher engine torque @ low engine revs and with lower maintenance costs also.

Mainey . . .
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FollowupID: 565086

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 22:07

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 22:07
So Mainey,

Your 2.4 D thatould not pull a Sailor off your sister is more expensive to run than a big V6.

I must be misssing something?

Jim.



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FollowupID: 565120

Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 23:43

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 23:43
Jim,
Ok, I will agree with you, yes maybe you are missing something...?

I don't have a problem with running costs and as can be clearly seen I definitely don't have any problem with the diesel engine efficiency either.
As you say your LPGas ute gives you only 350 Km from your 70 Litre tank which is (twenty) 20 Litres per 100 Km

My 2.4Lt Diesel gets 470 Km from it's smaller 55 Litre tank, which is "ONLY" 11.7 Litres per 100 Km

Therefore the Toyota diesel engine definitely is more efficient, when you remember I'm also fully loaded up with all and sundry and have 2 x Solar panels on the roof too.

I would definitely carry far more weight than you have in your ute which would have about the same cubic capacity (2.4Ltr) engines, or is it smaller??

Mainey . . .
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FollowupID: 565136

Follow Up By: Top End Explorer Tours - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 00:08

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 00:08
I have watched this thread for 2 days and I was being careful not to say something, unless necessary.

Looking at your post above Jim you say you get 350 km out of 70 lts and you are ROTFLYAO, well in January I did 900km with a L/Cruiser 1HZ 2003 GXL Diesel 5 speed manual at 90 kph with roof rack carrying 2 spare tyres a draw system in the back with 2 fridges with 110 lt capacity, and towing a camper trailer weighing approx 900 kgs, total fuel capacity was 45 lts sub tank and 90 Main tank, I got 345 km on the sub tank.

So who is ROTFLMAO, Jim looking at all your responses you sure know how to flog a dead horse.

Your quote :I'm currently getting 350km out of the 70L tank. That should improve as I drive it more and get used to it. You see I've been driving Autos for years and to now be in a 5 speed manual with 154kW I'm driving it a bit like a sports car.

Cheers Steve.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 09:15

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 09:15
Chaps,

I never said LPG is more efficient.

I said it was more economical WITH a qualifier D $1.60 and LPG $0.60.

Efficient and economical are not to be confused.

Hope this clears it up.

Cheers,

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Mainey (wa) - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:30

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:30
Jim,
if money is the only ALL important 'god' then the least expensive fuel definitely is the winner ...!!

Yes, the least expensive fuel (at the moment) is LPG and yes it's in very short supply in the most beautiful parts of Australia, the top end, in 12 months it may be a different scenario.

Yes, Jim you never said LPG is more efficient, you said it's cheap.
I said LPG is NOT efficient when compared to Diesel engines !!

The major thing to take into account when travelling is engine EFFICIENCY and using the fuel numbers you have nominated for your ute it's very obvious (can I say proves) that a diesel engine is far more efficient than LPG.
Therefore you do use LESS & carry far LESS fuel (less weight) with the absolute advantage of a much larger distance travelled between fuel stops with a Diesel engine, your own fuel numbers prove this too!!

The diesel engine is more suited to long haul travel under load, not stop start city traffic conditions, because of their much lower rev range but much higher engine torque compared to either petrol or LPG engines.

Mainey . . .
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FollowupID: 565175

Reply By: chisel - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:52

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 21:52
Just skimmed this and I'm surprised no-one (that I noticed) mentioned that LPG systems take up space and can cause hidden costs. I have an r50 pathfinder and to get lpg I have to either lose cabin space or move the spare wheel to an external carrier. The hidden cost is in the carrier which might be $1000-1500 and the heavy-duty suspension (if I didn't already have it) to cover the extra weight behind the rear wheels another $1000-2000. Then there's the reduction in load-carrying as I'm sure an lpg system+fuel isn't light.
I doubt very much an lpg system increases the resale of a vehicle. I would probably steer clear of vehicles with aftermarket lpg systems myself. Perhaps in some bigger, older petrol vehicles it might help resale.
Diesels on the other hand have fantastic resale and this surely needs to be considered in the overall cost equation.
AnswerID: 298769

Reply By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:16

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:16
G'day Jim

Just wondering, do you actually use your vehicle for 4wheel driving??...If so how do your figures compare against city driving??

Cheers.......Dave
AnswerID: 298774

Follow Up By: Member - David.M.C - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:38

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:38
Thinkin the same thing. towing figures be interesting too
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:45

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:45
Yes,

Very much Dave. I've already given the ptotective plate around the LPG tank a severe hiding. Knackered it during a river crossing. Hit a big ugly rock.

Got a very ugly trip planned for Sunday week.

Frankly, the tank under the car, behind the diff is a stupid mounting place. I have a plan to fix this: Tank in the tub and spare back in its place. And naturally I'll put together a drawer system to make the back of the ute serviceable.

It doesn't seem to use any more or less LPG than ULP.

Cheers,

Jim.
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:59

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 22:59
Jim

I had a GQ patrol back in 2003 that i had converted to gas because i was doing a trip around the block, my b/inlaw had exactly the same vehicle only his wasnt on gas, both towed camper trailers, and of course both sat on the same speed, around 90 - 100kh , before we left i was bragging about how much cheaper it would be for me because of the gas....Ha..first time we filled up his cost was actually slightly cheaper than mine, as we got further up the west coast of Aust it actually worked out cheaper for me to forget the gas and stick to petrol alone...dont ask me for figures ...lol..to long ago now and my memory isnt to good....but anyway that is the reason when i bought my last Patrol and the one i have now , i decided on diesel...not saying i disagree with you .....just my thoughts ....

Cheers.......Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 23:01

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 23:01
also forgot to say Jim , the availability of gas as you get more remote , and also the price , is bloody ridiculous
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 23:51

Tuesday, Apr 15, 2008 at 23:51
What a great thread. Enjoyed it immensely.

It's had all the usual " mines bigger than yours ' comments, some interesting facts regarding which engine is best suited to which purpose, and fuel consumption figures for all sorts of engines in different applications ( which will be useful for trip planning ).
Additionally, it's even had an example of memory loss and rudeness.

The main point however is that, it is funny to believe that a diesel is economical - as per the thread title.

As the author of the thread title has explained / shown in his posts, fuel tank capacities, travelling range, servicing / inspection costs, engine wear and tear, fitting costs, fuel availability, etc. are all incidental in this " simple maths " equation.

Silly of us to think it was about anything other than, what is cheapest at the pump, closest to his home/work.

Fishing trip..........more like a japanese whaling fleet supplying restaurants under the guise of scientific research.
AnswerID: 298791

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 00:39

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 00:39
LPG is only 60c a litre in suburban Victoria. Does that make it the best value fuel out there for 4wding?
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 01:10

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 01:10
Apparently so, Barnesy, apparently so.
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Follow Up By: Axel [ the real one ] - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 08:10
ROFLMAO ,, in Roma yesterday , Diesel $1.52 and wait for it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
LPG $0.96 ,, economical YEAH right.
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Reply By: Brew69(SA) - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 16:56

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 16:56
I own a 4.2 NA diesel GQ Patrol 1989. My last 4by was also a 1989 GQ Patrol but was dual fuel.
The dual fuel was much cheaper to keep on the road than the diesel even tho it uses about half the fuel. Extra frequency of oil changes, extra capacity of oil as well as the $1.67 pump price in Adelaide today all make the lpg a much better prospect if you want cheaper running costs.Forget all the extra tuning crap some people talk about. Fit an electronic ignition and a decent set of leads and you won't need to touch it for over 50 thou km's.
What i love about the diesel is the 1100kms i can do on a tank. Happy with both cars but the dual fuel is better if you want a cheaper running costs.
AnswerID: 298877

Follow Up By: mowing - Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 20:57

Wednesday, Apr 16, 2008 at 20:57
OK lets look at a person/couple towing a van/camper around Australia. I have a dedicated gas falcon one tonner which is obviously tuned perfectly to lpg. It gets 30 litres per 100 km towing a 1.5 ton trailer ( say the average of a van) If I towed it with a landcruiser diesel Ute it would get around 18 litres per 100 km. Price of fuel at Broome at the present = Diesel 1.77 per litre , LPG 1.04 per litre which equates to Diesel = $31.86 and LPG $31.20.
Can I guarantee that I will get diesel at Broome or stops in between =yes . Can I guarantee that I will get LPG =No.
As said before: Live in the city = LPG
Live in the country = Deisel
Tow = Deisel

My next 4x4 will be a diesel as we will be travelling more and I can't risk to rely on LPG.

Mark
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 08:16

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 08:16
I think you miss the point. 90 -95% of people with 4x4's use them mainly in the city, so even if lpg is $2 a litre in the country most of us will still be thousands in front.
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Follow Up By: mowing - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 19:28

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 19:28
Brew, I think the thread has been expanded..... As said before if you live in the city LPG is fine. Live in the country- diesel or tow diesel. If the 4x4 was to be used for it's designed purpose then most would go for diesel and I guess that most on the forum would use the vehicle for the designed purpose.

Regards

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 14:07

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 14:07
Here in Pt Hedland there are very few petrol/lpg 4wds. They are next to useless. You basically can't leave the bitumen with them because they use so much fuel on rough roads and the distance between fuel stops is so large.

Driving up the coast on the highway last year from Perth, there are roadhouses space about 300km apart in between towns. two of these roadhouses had run out of lpg. None of them will ever run out of diesel.

Yes 95% of 4wd are based in cities, but then 95% of 4wds never leave cities. They are used as shopping trolleys. These vehicles never get a chance to exploroz with their owners.

Jim wasn't very diplomatic with his post. He could have easily stated how much he liked his set up as it suited him well without degrading others for their set up.

Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 20:41

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 20:41
Barnesy,

You live in a very remote place and clearly my post was not relevant to you.

You are in a very small minority. My post was relevant to over 90% of Australians.

I'm not diplomatic? A few well chosen words generates interest and an interesting thread.

Diplomacy is not my strong suit, never will be.

Julia Gillard described John Button, upon his death, as "An honest man who spoke his mind". That will do me as an obituary.

Regards,

Jim.

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FollowupID: 565373

Reply By: PajeroTD - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 02:38

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 02:38
We need GTL diesel, using abundant natural gas to create diesel liquid fuel. A much better idea than biodiesel.
AnswerID: 298964

Reply By: Redback - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 08:08

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 08:08
I'm still here for that hug Jim


Baz.
AnswerID: 298981

Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:36

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:36
PMSL Baz

Cheers......Dave
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FollowupID: 565170

Reply By: nickb - Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 20:49

Thursday, Apr 17, 2008 at 20:49
My GU patrol petrol gets about 300km to $55 of LPG(80L). Much cheaper than ULP but about the same as a diesel(using 13L/100 as an example). I generally run around town and have a heavy right boot so I enjoy the performance(if you can call it that) of the petrol/LPG. But when I crossed the nullabor, I had to stop at every second servo and it was a pain in the bum.

I did the Border Track and some of Wyperfield NP and did about 398km. I used 72L LPG, all the sub tank (approx 33L) and about half a 20L jerry, overall about 29L/100km. I was putting my foot down on all the dunes and so forth but the 2 diesels that I went with had used not even half a tank and I was almost out of fuel.

Next time I will buy a diesel just for the extra range. My LPG truck is only good for driving around the suburbs and short day/weekend trips.

Moral of the story - Owning a 4x4 and actually 4X4ing is bloody expensive!!!
AnswerID: 299078

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 03:26

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 03:26
Dont have the same set up as Jim from _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx? ROTFLMAO


- So you bought a patrol because you wanted a very capable vehicle instead of a courier, idiot ROTFLMAO

- So you bought a station wagon because the kids were more comfortable in the back seat than a duel cab, idiot ROTFLMAO

- So you bought an auto instead of the sports car like 5 speed in the courier, idiot ROTFLMAO

- so you bought a second hand 4by instead of spending 4 times as much on a new vehicle. idiot ROTFLMAO

- God forbid you bought a diesal, idiot ROTFLMAO

Im still trying to flog off my auto petrol terracan which is no longer the best vehicle ever to afford this new god sanctioned setup

AnswerID: 299118

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 09:58

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 09:58
If you're going to respond don't tell lies. Scan back through the archives and you'll find:

-I love Patrols, owned a GQ, my parents own a GU and I have regularly advocated them as the most capable and best value "fair dinkhum" 4wd on the market.

-I bought a dual (duel is when two blokes fight with swords or pistols) cab for business reasons and as our kids are older we have no need for a wagon any more

-Autos are far better off road than manuals and are my preferred option

-I didn't buy a new 4wd. The Courier was an unused 2005 model (Ford excess stock) that was sold to me as a second hand vehicle with a new car warranty at a price I couldn't resist

-At the price I can buy LPG, no, I wouldn't consider a diesel.

-I got an excellent trade in on the Terracan

Check your facts before you get yourself a reputauon as a liar.



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FollowupID: 565304

Reply By: Redback - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 09:19

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 09:19
These types of posts are usually for the benefit of the poster, to justify their purchase of whatever vehicle they have.

WHY?

You bought what you bought, don't bag others because of what they have bought, it serves no purpose but to antagonise.

Baz.
AnswerID: 299141

Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 14:12

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 14:12
Have you learnt anything from this post Jim?

You could have quite easily stated how much you liked your vehicle set-up as it suited you perfectly without degrading others for their set-up.
AnswerID: 299187

Follow Up By: Member - David.M.C - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 15:30

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 15:30
May i suggest that Jim has learnt that this is a national forum not one just for melbournites that never leave the city and that people actually live in the bush not just pass through with their jerry cans.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 15:48

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 15:48
I have learned that some people can't read.

I have learned that some have very poor mathematical skills.

I have learned that some people are so bigotted that they denigrate anything other than that, which they have themselves.

I already knew that trying share some useful information on this forum will always result in some negative responses, but I will continue to share any knowledge I acquire, to benefit the majority. To help them make informed decisions.

You may recall a chap called Collyn Rivers who is Australia's foremost solar energy expert. He gave up and left this forum after any number of fools argued with him, and abused him, about a topic that they knew very little about.

It seems to be a fact of life on forums that people want to argue for the sake of it. So be it.

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FollowupID: 565333

Follow Up By: Member - David.M.C - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 16:31

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 16:31
Jim, reread your post. This time very slowly. Particularily your third sentence. Believe it or not, people actually live in "the bush". it wasn't put there for the occasional city bloke to wander through.
Perhaps a title like " A diesel 4wd in the city is not economical" would have been more to your thinking. Your post had only consideration for city people that may or may not venture off the black top. You have effectively taken the piss out of half the nation.
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FollowupID: 565341

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 17:23

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 17:23
Firstly David,

I have not always lived in Melbourne. I lived in FNQ for 8 years and did extensive touring in an RB30 GQ Patrol running on LPG.

LPG is easily accessible to over 90% of the population. It is available all around the country except some remote outback locations. Check the LPG map.

There seems to be an overall unfounded belief that a large 4wd needs to be diesel. Try this; look up the Trading Post and check the prices of 100 series Toyotas. In Melbourne a similar vintage Petrol Sahara will at least $15k cheaper than a T/D GXL. Now the Sahara with LPG fitted will be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and better appointed, but the yards are littered with them.

Yes, I re-read the third sentence, and my prediction came true. Maybe I should offer my services as a fortune teller LOL.

Regards,

Jim.

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FollowupID: 565345

Follow Up By: Top End Explorer Tours - Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 22:16

Friday, Apr 18, 2008 at 22:16
But the yards are littered with them, your words.

There is a reason for that Jim NOBODY F*CKING WANTS ONE.

Why? Because we want a Diesel.

As I said you sure know how to flog a dead horse.

Cheers Steve.
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FollowupID: 565399

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 07:51

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 07:51
Why this statement I am flogging a dead horse? I have no vested interest in the LPG industry.

All I've tried to explain is the cost advantage of LPG where it is cheap. Anyone spending 90% of their time on the blacktop in Melbourne would be damn foolish to buy a Diesel, but they have somehow become brainwashed into buying them.

I'm simply pointing out the options for people to consider. LPG doesn't suit YOU and I fully understand why. I also fully agree that LPG would be a waste of time in your neck of the woods and for your business.

But at least open your eyes and accept that it should be the preferred option for many.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see", can't remember who said it, but it is a very poignant quote.

Regards,

Jim.



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FollowupID: 565438

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 08:06

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 08:06
anyone spending 90% of their time on the blacktop in melbourne would be able to save money by not having a 4by full stop
- so whats your point?
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 08:19

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 08:19
Wrong again, as usual, gets a bit boring really.

I'll put it as simply as I can. My 4L V6 D/C Ute running on LPG is cheaper to run than My Wifes 1.5L Hyundai Getz.

Can you understand when it is put that simply?

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FollowupID: 565444

Follow Up By: Top End Explorer Tours - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:10

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:10
You started this thread to provoke an argument, I don't doubt that for a second.

FollowUp: Diesel is economical??? ROFLMAO

Get a LARGE capacity Petrol 4wd and fit LPG. At least 3.5L, preferably bigger, the bigger the better.

Wiith D at $1.60 and LPG at 60 Cents, it's not a difficult calculation.

Sure, some clown will trot out the old chestnut of NO LPG or ULP out in the bush. Carry a few Jerries and you'll still be in front by thousands.

My friends, it is simple Maths.

More power, less cost.

Jim.

You insinuated that if you drive a Diesel or want to disagree you are a Clown.

If you had posted your thread with the heading, My D/U run really economical on gas you may have had a few replies, like good on you, or good to hear,etc.

I also believe 98% of the above people wouldn't have even opened that thread as we would not have given a dam.

Here's another thing, I don't give a dam what you think of me or my comments, but I believe you have been incredibly rude to some of the posters on here, regardless of their opinions.

I think an apology is in order, but I doubt you will.

Steve.




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FollowupID: 565450

Follow Up By: Member - Barnesy - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:51

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:51
Steve, Jim has gotten what he wanted. Over 40 replies from a post requiring little thought. That would provide good publicity for his business.

You get publicity for your business by providing good quality advice to others using this site. He does it by making inflammatory posts and accusing people of not being able to read.

Any publicity is good publicity. As Jim stated above "a few choice words placed in the right places".

Barnesy
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FollowupID: 565452

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:57

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:57
Rude ?

Read the responses, the only people I was rude to were those who gave me a spray first.

My opening post was provocative, no question and for a reason. I wanted to people to read it and consider the factual and benficial (to some) information.

I fully understand why people drive diesels. I also realise that a lot shouldn't, if they understood the alternatives.

If anyone is so touchy as to be offended by my GENERIC clown statement, they really need to worry about more important things in lfe.

Jim.

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FollowupID: 565453

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:59

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 09:59
Wrong nothiing if the car is on gas.
Why dont you put the getz on gas ? that would make sense to you surely
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FollowupID: 565455

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:04

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:04
Putting a Getz that does 10,000 km a year on LPG would not justify the capital outlay.

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FollowupID: 565456

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:06

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:06
What capitol outlay after the 3 grand GVT rebates?
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FollowupID: 565457

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:14

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:14
Barnesy,

Why are people who advertise here maligned so often. Are we not entitled post our thoughts and share information like anyone else?

What relevance a post on LPG has to do with my business totally eludes me.

I do not, have not and never will fit LPG systems, I am not a Motor Mechanic.

0
FollowupID: 565459

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:18

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:18
Davoe,

The rebate is $2000, not $3000. A good sequential LPG system costs at least $4000.

$4000 minus $2000 equals $2000 capital outlay.

The Getz already gets (haha) 9L/100 km around town. The $2000 would take more years to recoup than we would ever be likely to keep the car, if ever.



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FollowupID: 565460

Follow Up By: Top End Explorer Tours - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:22

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:22
Hey Jim I read some were that LPG is the cheapest fuel to use and you would be a clown not to use it.

ROTFLMAO.

Cheers Steve.
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FollowupID: 565462

Follow Up By: Member - David.M.C - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:27

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:27
Gday Jim,
Those figures are almost unbelievable. 9L/100 sounds alot for a small car. With no intension of stirring the pot mate, my TD100 will do 12-13L/100 around town with a bit of gear in it. I would have thought 5/6 for a car that small?? Any wonder your running comparisons.
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FollowupID: 565463

Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:29

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:29
additional $1,000 state Gvt subsidy here in West oz
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FollowupID: 565464

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:32

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:32
Steve,

Yeah I can be controversial, that's just me. I do like good robust debate.

Now due to my very intentional provocative opening statement all matter of issues have been addressed.

We have covered availabilty, safety, space issues, the benefits of diesel in the bush, range and a whole lot more.

Anyone considering how to fuel their potential purchase need only read this thread and they won't go too far wrong. I can't think of anything that has not been addressed.

Hence my post served it's purpose of sharing information.

Cheers,

Jim.

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FollowupID: 565465

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:38

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:38
David,

9 does sound high but the Getz does a lot of short trips, running cold most of the time, hence its higher than expected usage.

Similarly my Ute should be getting a lot better than 20 but it also does many short trips around the suburbs and rarely gets into 5th gear. Hence, its a "like for like" comparo.

Jim.

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FollowupID: 565466

Follow Up By: nickb - Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 23:52

Saturday, Apr 19, 2008 at 23:52
Not trying to be smart, but my missus' Honda Jazz of similar specs averages 5.5L/100km and its always used for short city trips (<7km) to work and shopping, and she drives like Mark Skaife! Maybe the Getz is not running right? As a comparison, my Patrol on LPG gets 26L/100km... Wish I got a diesel, same "economy" but 600km more range...
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FollowupID: 565547

Reply By: Boobook2 - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 07:43

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 07:43
Slightly OT. Jim somewhere in this thread you said something like ...

I cant see the relationship betwen this forum and my business.

I apologise if this isn't excatly what you said, it was a long long way back and I can't find it now.

IMHO there is a direct relationship, for example at one stage I was seriously looking to buy your _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx. Inexpensive and close to what I wanted.

However on this forum IN MY OPINION you have sometimes gotten heated over minor things. On one occassion I even vividly recall, you blasted me when I asked you a question. IMHO I also think you give the image that you always put price over all other considrerations on many topics ( eg this, and the many fridge threads - all fridges are the same comments)

As a result I think " if he is so pedantic over little things like that what would he be like if I had a problem with the drawers" and "Jim apears to put price over all other considerations".

Now I may very well be wrong, and in it's self is irrelevent, you are entitled to your opinion however you do deliberately represent your company every time you make a post ( Logo and all, on all posts), so you can't seperate them.

I hope for your business that I am wrong and I am sure I am, however perceptions are everything in sales and I could not get these thoughts out of my head and I went for other ( more exensive) _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx ( not the big 2). I found you through this forum, and in the end decided not to go with you because of this forum.

Shoot me down if you like, I am just telling you my opinion about your comment.

AnswerID: 303000

Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 07:47

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 07:47
Sorry just found the post I was referring to.

"_Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx posted:
You need to explain the correlation between my opinion on fuel costs and the quality and value of my _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx.

Makes about as much sense as choosing an electrician to wire your house based on the fact that he drives a Falcon Ute and you think he should drive a Holden.

Cheers,

Bozo."



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FollowupID: 569145

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:36

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 18:36
You are entitled to make your choices any way you like and spend your money any way you like.

You'll note that there has never been one negative comment on my product on this forum. The reason for this is that the quality of my product and service is second to none.

Perhaps that should have told you something about me and my business.

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FollowupID: 569246

Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 10:33

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 10:33
Some of the rants in this thread are way over the top too:


Thread 57339

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AnswerID: 303015

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 23:37

Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 23:37
Boring, very boring.

I could sift through the archives and quote as many stupid things that you have said as I have said, but what would that prove?



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FollowupID: 569297

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