New Fog Light laws in Victoria.

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:58
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G'day all,

I was recently looking at the Vicroads site and came across new legislation for fog lights -

"....A new law regarding the use of front fog lights was also announced today.

Minister for Roads and Ports, Tim Pallas, said that using front fog lights in any other conditions apart from hazardous weather conditions was now prohibited.

“Fog lamps turned on when there is no fog can cause glare, affecting other road users’ ability to see and drive safely,” Mr Pallas said.

“The new law brings the use of front fog lights in line with rules for using rear fog lights, reflecting community expectations and improving road safety.

“If drivers use their fog lights under conditions which are not foggy or hazardous they could face fines of $116.”



Tim
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Reply By: Member -Signman - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:05

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:05
That's all very good....but what's the definition of a fog light??

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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:26

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:26
Fog lights are those things that should have coloured lenses and be mounted as low as possible on the front of the vehicle.

Anything else is a driving light - unless it has a handle on it and then it is a spotlight.

Thats my definition any way.
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Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:29

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:29
They come standard on every doof doof car

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Follow Up By: Angler - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:39

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:39
Wish the local police here in Townsville would also start booking these dills with wanker lights. I rarely see any that are correctly adjusted and all seem to be normal spot lights and certainly not orange lights in any way.

Angler
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Follow Up By: Rock Ape - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:45

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:45
Angler, I know what you mean, I drive Townsville to Mackay at night and close to every third car seems to have them on and as you say they point everywhere. Especially in my eyes.

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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 16:07

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 16:07
Fog lights are the lights fitted to a vehicle low down to use when there is fog.

Wanker lights are fog lights used when there is no fog. They are appropriately named after the users.

I hope all other states follow. It is unfortunate that wankers cannot think to be considerate to others and it is necessary to pass legislation.



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Follow Up By: DIO - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 18:06

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 18:06
Have a look at the following for a definition of Fog Light and Driving Light. I reckon it pretty well sums up what most (sensible) people would agree on Link
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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:10

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:10
Gday
What a good idea Tim...Now we have to get people to switch on their lights when they drive to work at 6.30 am in the dark.
Idiots on Heatherton rd every morning .
Tim ,,How is the road through Huggets crossing these days? Wes and I want to go up again before the end of May just for the night. We usually go through the river and along to the old fence,at the T intersection, then turn right and go as far as possible. Camping on the left about 400m past the last river crossing.
Murray
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Follow Up By: Member - Tim - Stratford (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:20

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:20
Murray,

I'm not sure on Huggetts - it is open but I've heard the track over the crossing is closed but I can't confirm this.

We camped on the Avon river along the Avon track last weekend. The track has chopped up a bit but nothing too drastic.

As you travel into Huggetts take the last (I think) track to the left - follow this for 30-40 minutes and you'll end up at a T intersection with the Avon Track. Just over the other side of the river is a good spot we used.

Only big enough for a few swags and a tent - but better than over crowding at a two wheel drive camp :-)


Tim
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 07:55

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 07:55
Gday Tim
Thanks for the reply.
Wes and I came out on that road last time. We came to the T intersection from the back of the road closed sign. Rather tricky road as the only maintenance that was done , is the trees have been cut from across the road.It was like driving down a dry river bed for about two hrs.
I'll see how wes is about the trip, not sure if he will want to come as he was hit by a car a couple of weeks back and has a sore back.He was sitting on his bike at a corner to turn right and a car hit him in the back wheel.
Murray
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Reply By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:50

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 13:50
at last a law we can agree with i am an interstate driver and do all my work at night and every 2nd car has these lights on.it seems that drivers of these cars dont care about other road users especially other drivers that have to work all night.where has all the courtesy gone these days.just a thought thanks
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:01

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:01
As an interstater you will probably agree when I suggest a $1000 fine and make it federal not just state.

I had a mercedes limo owner calmly explain to me, at lunchtime in brisvegas one day, that he did not have a faulty brake light causing me irritation in bumper to bumper traffic - it was just the rear foglight.

I " very calmly " responded about the nescessity of foglights in the middle of qld summers at lunchtime...............the world is full of em, fair dinkum.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:16

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:16
Mark, it drives me crazy also. the lighs have no set height or focus and are left on for the pose i guess. NSW fine is $70 but is not enforced.. NSW is broke so is an oportunity missed with every third car having them on unnecessarily!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:29

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:29
thanks guys for the support. all us interstaters and the rest of us can do is to flash these dills with our high beam and hope they get the message.and arent new cars coming out as standard with these lights hard wired to come on when you turn the haed lights on or is that just a myth
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Reply By: Gronk - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:08

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:08
Was talking to a NSW copper 2 weeks ago and he indicated they were no longer booking people for the use of fog lights during the day ( or any other time )

Their thoughts were any light is supposed to be good for visibility to other road users ??

Didn't ask him about rear ones though..
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:18

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:18
So we can all just drop the level of the 200mm driving lights and run them now , can we?? Michael
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:19

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:19
Its funny how fog lights can turn into driving lights ???

FOG lights..........NOT driving lights..
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Reply By: Mr Pointyhead - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:12

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:12
It is good to have the law in place but it will only be any use if the government publicizes it and the police service is given the funding to enforce it.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:21

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:21
Funding, Thats what the Highway Patrol is for.... Highways!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:47

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 14:47
maybe the police are reluctant to enforce it cause there isnt enough REVENUE in it to worry about
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Reply By: Mikee5 (Logan QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 15:17

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 15:17
To me people who drive with fog lights on when not needed are simply flagging that they are wankers. The cops with the hand held speed guns will single out the car with foggies on in a stream of cars and usually they are speeding as well. Saves the cops time and effort when someone is signalling to them 'Pick Me'. LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 16:20

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 16:20
couldnt have said it better myself mikee5
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Follow Up By: Stu-k - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 18:28

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 18:28
Cause you use fog lights you speed? Damn 80% of ppl in QLD are speeding!
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Reply By: mowing - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 18:25

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 18:25
Tim, It is already law in WA. I got picked up in my wife's corolla for god's sake with the fog lights on. I had to show the copper that there was no indication in the car that these were on. He let me off.But said either get them disconnected or some form of indicator installed to show that they are on.


Regards

Mark
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Reply By: Member - John D (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 19:26

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 19:26
In Melbourne, these idiots with the fog lights on day & night with no fog around are known as "LAM's", which stands for "Look At Me"

Cheers,
John
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 20:18

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 20:18
What a brilliant initiative.

Give Coppers more powers to collect taxes, whilst they ought be out catching crims.

Jim.

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Reply By: The Bigfella - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 22:00

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 22:00
Well. I have just realised I am a "wanker".
I must be the only person in Australia who reckons the "fog" lights actually show up a car approaching at day or night much more than headlights. I have NEVER found them to be distracting in either day or night.
I do a fair bit of travelling and there are sure a lot of them turned on.
Any way for the record I have been fined for having my "fog" lights on at dusk in a very dusty area and as I tried to explain to the "very nice" policeman that I had left them on because of the dust he just grunted and wrote me out a ticket.
My other arguement is that the "non use" of them has NEVER been advertised over TV or radio or the newspapers. If you do not read forums like this then you would never know until you are pulled up AND BOOKED.
I am all for them to be kept on.
They are great on country roads for extra light at night out the side of your vehicle.
I also apologise for being the odd one out on this discussion but that is how I feel about the "FOG LIGHTS".
Cheers
The Bigfella
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 22:16

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 22:16
turn on your uhf at night and listen to all the cursing going on not only from heavy vehicle drivers but other drivers with radios about these lights.you would have to be blind if you cant see without them on.what is wrong with your low beam.i drive a b-double from brisbane to sydney twice a week with no need for them.if you cant see in the fog drive to the conditions and slow down

regards
safe driving
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 01:04

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 01:04
A wanker - or maybe just someone who doesnt know the difference between a fog light, a driving light, and a headlight and what they are designed to do.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:35

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:35
Hey Bigfella, I'm with you ,wanker or not. Both my Peugeots have
these so called foglights, mounted low to the ground under the bumper. White lights. They provide extra vision to the side of the road. I have never been flashed by another vehicle for having them on, nor have I ever been dazzled by similar lights on approaching vehicles ,& there are plenty of them. Driving lights
or spotties are a different matter, & usually with high beam headlights as well. I think there may be some confusion between
the two. I have been told to turn them off by a policeman doing
breathtesting as it is against the law (NSW) to have them on
unless in fog/dust/poor light. I told the copper I use them to
make my grey car more easily seen in conditions of poor light, that
existed at the time. He agreed, & I use them constantly...oldbaz.

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Reply By: Nick R (VIC) - Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 22:36

Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 at 22:36
now there is a good law, hope it gets enforced....
I too call them w@nk3r lights.
I started turning mine on for those who used them needlessly then off again but doing it that often became a pain.
I have had my car with fog lights for 8 months, I used them for the first time in fog last week.
Nick
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 01:22

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 01:22
The main reason all these rules have to be bought in is because so many people just go and buy things for their vehicles without knowing the real reason for having them. That or the fact that vehicles sold here are designed for overseas markets and we end up with a lot of gimmicks that have not been a part of our driving culture.

Headlights on low beam are designed to cast light in a certain direction so as to provide best visibility for the driver whilst providing minimal distraction to oncoming traffic.
High beam / driving lights and fog lights are designed to cast light in all directions forward of the vehicle.

A fog light is for use on low beam which means it should not be used if it will be a distraction to oncoming traffic. Thats what I got told when I started driving, over 30yrs ago.

So why is it a problem today. Probably because of the same logic that makes people go out and buy car tyres, with 2" sidewalls when the majority of bitumen roads in this country have potholes 3" deep.

Education - not Legislation.
Now, how to get commonsense, practicality and logic introduced into the curriculum ?.

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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:27

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:27
Sorry, but fog lights are designed to keep the light as low to the ground as possible to stay under the fog and if they are installed properly, they shouldn't distract oncoming cars..

I think people are confusing fog lights with aftermarket doof doof light things ..
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:00

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:00
Nothing to be sorry about - Its all part of the confusion.

Factory fitted rear fog lights are as bright as brake lights and are easily confused as such - at night or in busy traffic conditions.

Factory fitted front fog lights in most cases have a unnescessarily large wattage bulb for general use. In non fog conditions, they are as bright and as annoying as driving lights, to oncoming traffic.
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Reply By: Zebra400 - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 04:54

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 04:54
Interesting to see that a lot of people are using fog lights when there is no fog. We added driving lights to our Cruiser many years ago, but I found that a lot of our driving was on low beam. When we switched back from high beam with driving lights on to low beam (and no driving lights), the road appeared very dark.

After researching the options, we decided to upgrade our wiring lume to our headlights and upspecked the wattage of the low beam from 55wts to 95wts. The difference was amazing. We can now see a lot more in front of the car and on the side of the road.

The biggest gain to us is that there is not a lot of difference in the brightness from high beam to low beam as there was before. The other gain is that the brighter low beam does not annoy oncoming motorists as the light is not directed at them on low beam.




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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:12

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:12
good work zebra400 its good to see there is still people out there with common sense.you actually took the time to rectify your problem without an inconvienience to other drivers.keep up the good work
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 10:28

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 10:28
Nice to see thinking happening. Good on ya.

Another idea that might be of interest:

On most of my " travel " vehicles I have arranged the switches and wiring so that the following occurs.

Low Beam
High Beam - Headlights - no driving lights
High Beam - Driving lights - no headlights

This allows stepping down of the lighting as approaching vehicles get closer, allows the eyes to adjust in three stages instead of " bright to dark " and also a gives the alternator a rest from running the headlights which are outperformed by quality driving lights.

Of course, this might not be as nescessary in more recent vehicles with blingy headlights or for those people who do little night driving.
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:21

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:21
Zebra400
95w low beam is the same as driving with high beam on all the time and as bad as having fog lights on.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:05

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:05
Dave,

I think you will find that with most lights the difference between high and low is not in the wattage of the bulb.

R.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:21

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:21
OzTroopy.....what you have done sounds good but I think it may be illegal..
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Follow Up By: Zebra400 - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:30

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:30
95w is the same as having fog lights? That's an interesting comment. Dave, I think you need to go and do some more research. By using a stronger low beam, the light is directed away from oncoming drivers. We have tested them with other 4WDers (when coming towards us) and they have found the increased wattage did not add any extra glare over 55w. The issue with fog lights is that they don't automatically direct the light away from oncoming vehicles.

Robak, standard wattage for an 80 series is 55w for low beam and 95 for high beam. With upgraded light enclosures and a heavy duty wiring lume, we are now using 95w low beam & 110w high beam. I spoke to Alan Johnson at Piranha in Melbourne and this set up was his recommendation. Having used them for quite some time now, I agree that we dont need any stronger than 110w high beam. We did use 135w/145w and kept blowing them. When we installed the 95/110w, we didnt notice any deterioration in the output on full beam. Plus was that we didnt continue blowing stronger light bulbs. In addition, we still have driving lights fitted. When we turn them on (135w) as well as full beam, we dont get a lot more light, so we use the driving lights sparingly.



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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:44

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:44
So your saying that your 95w low beam isn't as bright as 95w high beam ?
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:04

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:04
Dave,

It's about direction of the light. Not its brightness. But if you're a car coming in the opposite direction the "yes" a 95watt high beam will be "brighter" then a 95 watt low beam.

In fact a 55 watt high beam will appear brighter to an oncoming car then a 95 watt low beam. Hence the issue with "fog lights" which are mostly 55 watt but are directed straight ahead and into the eyes of oncoming drivers.

R.
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:13

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:13
Gronk,

You're probably right but as far as I am concerned it falls into the larger tyre / suspension lift etc etc category.

It is failsafe - When highbeam is selected either the std headlights OR the driving lights come on. Just depends on whats selected.

Havent found any rules about it, so as long as driving lights are legal distances apart and the park / running lights are on - what the heck.
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:43

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:43
A new medical phenomena.

These low set lights are causing a lot of people to go blind because of somebody else's wanking.

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Reply By: Hairs - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:37

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:37
Made the mistake of flashing an oncoming Cruiser tray back once, because I thought he had his high, beam on. Doht. Just had a heavy load. He flashed me with his cab over lights, Bull bar lights even his cigarette lighter, looked like the spaceship out of Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. Spent a week in hospital with third degree burns to my face. I’m very careful who I flash now to get them to turn down their lights. :(
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:48

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:48
bit of a worry this HAIRS fella being on the road with us all hey guys?
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Follow Up By: Hairs - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 13:59

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 13:59
Hey Goldie,
You know you shouldn't be worried about being on the road with me. ;-). You know I'm one eyed and blind in the other.
It's all good.
When are we having a drink again?

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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 16:52

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 16:52
tell me its your shout and its on
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Reply By: Middle Jeff - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:50

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:50
Hi All

The NRMA get more complaints about this than nearly everything else put together. They are fog lights and designed for that, they are bright and flat and should only be used with parking lights in fog. On a rainy night these things are lethal, also on most cars are near the front blinker so if you have them on and go into a and get hit you will be found in the wrong the same as every other idiot that it has happened to.

Have fun

Craig
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:04

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:04
For many years the Australian Road Rules have specified in all states what lighting is allowed.

When there is oncoming traffic or a vehicle in front of you, you must be on Low Beam - i.e. must not cause glare to other drivers.

On Low Beam there must be only TWO lights on.

So FogLights ONLY would be legal if they had a cutoof as good as standard Lowbeams.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G (NSW) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:58

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:58
MIKE DID very good reply but wouldnt you class any thing other than low beam as auxiliary lighting?
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Reply By: Hughd - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:18

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:18
The problem with fog lights in clear conditions is that they are designed to be low downs,and they have to point horizontally to work in fog.
Low beams are angled down towards the road and that's why they don't dazzle. But I despair of the law ever being enforced. Maybe we have to include the aim of fog lights in road-worthiness inspections.
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Follow Up By: Hairs - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 22:52

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 22:52
Hey Hughd,
They use to check your head lights. Can't remember the last time I saw a mechanic checked the head light alignment, must 17 or more years ago. How things have changed.
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