Threads about fuel prices, taxes on fuel and oil companies profit

Submitted: Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 08:41
ThreadID: 57162 Views:3172 Replies:18 FollowUps:32
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Recently there was aplenty of them – two per day in average. Do not we have enough? Do not we realize that such threads is no more then pollution of forum and cannot bring anything positive neither solve anything?

I suggest to every responsible user (more for members) do not start such thread and do not participate into started one, but rather let them sink quietly.

What do you reckon? I personally out of then anyway.

Cheers
Serg
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 08:52

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 08:52
G'day Serg,

I agree with you.

I hate the high price of diesel as much as anybody.....but placing posts up about it does nothing to help.

If you can't afford the price of the fuel, leave the vehicle at home and just put-up with it.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:39

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:39
Scuse me Roachie
Can i organise a loan for fuel so that i can get to Innaminka ??
Murray
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:48

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:48
Hmmm. I'm not sure about that. I reckon it helps heaps for people to discuss fuel prices. That's what keeps the pressure up to keep prices down. IMHO!
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:54

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:54
Muz... I'll have to do an in-depth credit check firstly!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha

Royce: All the talk in the world (from the likes of us, Kevin Dudd, the fuel pricing commissioner and anybody else you can think of) doesn't seem to be doing diddly squat to date. The only way we can beat the tea-towel-heads at this game is to devise an alternative fuel and then watch 'em drop their prices down quicker than a $2- hooker in need of a quick fix of a white powdery substance!!

Otherwise there is nothing we can do to dictate the price. They've got it...... We want it....we have to pay their price, or go without.

Roachie
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Reply By: Kev & Darkie - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:04

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:04
Serg,

We will just have to keep on, keeping on.

I don't see fuel getting any cheaper

Cheers Kev
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Reply By: Member - RFLundgren (WA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:16

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:16
Serg

Have to agree as well. We can all complain and carry on about it, but it really wont change anything. We just have to play the game and but at the bottom of the price cycle whenever possible.

Lets face it life goes on and whether we like it or not we do adjust. I have just finished entering all of my fuel receipts into a spreadsheet for tax purposes and its frightening how the price has risen over the past 12 months.

Has it made a difference to when and where I drive? Not really. I still have to drive to work, we have done 2 long weekend trips and a couple of 10 day trips, and am still planning for a 5 - 6 week trip starting in July.

Grocery prices have risen, interest rates have risen, fuel prices have risen. Its a fact of life. I can remember buying a bag of hot chips for 10c and when it went to 15c there was an outrage about the price increase. On our recent trip around the Goldfields we paid $8.00 for a small box of chips, probably about the same as I used to get for 10c, but although we complained we still paid it. Bloody expensive potatoes at about $30.00 / kilo, but we didnt go without.

People generally wont go without fuel either. They still have to work etc. Yes public transport may be an option for some, but for other the car is a necessary evil for work purposes.

Anyway now I am ranting, but the point is, the prioce will rise and we will still pay it, some becase we have to and some becasue we dont want to give up the things we enjoy doing.

Cheers

Richard

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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:50

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:50
I disagree... Complaining to the pollies is what it's all about. It starts with the discussions here and elsewhere.

I would almost change my vote for the pollie who supported tax deductability for driving to and from work. It is after all a work-related expense. I can claim, but garden variety PAYG workers can't.

cheers Royce
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:48

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:48
Royce


Complaining is good to ease the stress level.

In other countries where they are not allowed to complain they end up shooting the pollies over this sort of issue. That doesn't work.

I will keep complaining. It doesn't change anything but it makes me feel better.



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Follow Up By: Member - Reiner G (QLD) 4124 - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 21:57

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 21:57
Royce,I agree our tax laws are a joke. 30 Years ago in Germany I could claim my fuel going to work and even more I could claim so much per km. That was working for the boss.
It is only fair to be able to claim because you need to spend that money to get to work.
Anyway I don't think it will ever change...
Reiner
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:23

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:23
Serg,
Like you I don't bother with those posts normally.

But the fuel price issue is very relevant to Exploroz as it is genuinely preventing people from travelling as much as they used to. And travel is what this site is all about.

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:52

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:52
Agreed. This is just the right place to hash out issues important to all of us...
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:34

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:34
Serg,

You'll notice at the top of the page a tab for fuel prices.

Fuel is a very sensitive issue and affects a lot of people on this forum. Thus people will want to discuss.

Jim.

AnswerID: 301425

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:45

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:45
Jim,

It is sensitive to about everyone. So lets discuss. How much economy we can gain by putting gas in diesel. Or how much we can save by using big tanks and refill at big places. Or how much really we burn when towing. Lets talk about something what we can change. But lets stop continuously ranting about things what we have no influence what so ever.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:59

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:59
I don't disagree with you.

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:57

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:57
We have all the influence in the world!.... We CAN change things. What would the fuel companies do if we stopped buying. What if we [I mean a massive heap of Aussies] stopped buying from the major companies until they dropped the price.

That might be very nice for United or other independants.

I actually don't think they can drop the price. The Government could take 10c off overnight.

Companies could slow things down a bit.... maybe even sell the stuff they have on hand at the price they paid rather than bumping it up automically.

We may not be able to change the price of fuel, but we can share ideas on how to drop our usage etc... worth discussing ....
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Reply By: downtools - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:41

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:41
I agree Serg,
So why did you start another one?
Cheers Nifty
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:46

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:46
You missed my point – I start thread about threads, not :-x

:-)))))

Cheers
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Follow Up By: downtools - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 10:23

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 10:23
Yeh I know Serg, just stiring the pot!!
Cheers.
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Reply By: brushmarx - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:47

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 09:47
I agree that this forum probably needs a rest from the same repetitive posts, but the idea of letting blatant rorting and rip off's die off quietly is exactly what has happened for years in Australia, and is heavily relied upon by our elected and business leaders.
Until there is a readily accessible outlet for the public to show their anger at decisions that affect them financially or their lifestyle, I don't like the chances of these topics disappearing from the forum.
The press make lots of noise for a short time, and then public interest changes when the next newspaper shows a bit of T & A .
Good luck though.
I'll get there someday, or die wanting to.

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Reply By: Member - John G- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 10:03

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 10:03
G'day Serg

I think the first point is that the structure of threads as they appear first up on screen gives you a pretty good indication as to whether they are likely to interest you or not. If not, walk on by.

Some of the thread discussion on fuel prices is informative and educative. e.g. about 3-4 weeks ago there was good technical info on the diesel production process; some pretty ordinary thinking on the part of the RACQ regarding diesel fuel prices was exposed;, and from that discussion I googled Bureau of Stats figures which showed that only 8% of passenger vehicle total fuel volume used per year is diesel - so yeah, I agree with you that we can't do anything about the price of diesel based on our standing as significant users.

But . . .as I understand it there is an excise (i.e. a tax) on fuel, and then we pay GST on top of that. The govt now wants to spend $$ on setting up a fuel watch system, with no hard evidence that that will result in a price drop, but it is silent on tackling a double tax. That is something we could do something about, if we wrote to our local member, or if lobby groups (e.g. NRMA, RACQ) wanted to do something constructive on behalf of their members.

At the end of the day though, I'd argue that the increasing price of fuel is a legitmate topic for a site such as exploroz, and the choice we all have is to skip those threads that don't interest us.

Cheers
John
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Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:18

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:18
I think the discussion is worth having on several grounds. Some good stuff does come out of it. Examples, the points raised in considering costs of depreciation versus fuel costs. ie, if we want to continue with our hobby, are we better to buy an old vehicle? If so, which one and why? Who better than this thread to discuss that? On one of the fuel threads someone posted information on a company called LNC. Very thought provoking and I have followed the progress of those shares with considerable interest since. Up another 5% today. Discussion of guvvament policy always interesting. If more people appreciated the reason for the fuel tax in the first place, both Parties wouldn't have squandered the windfall they got from this tax and we would have an alternative fuel policy, probably based on natural gas, in place. That is, the more public discussion, the better. The more understanding of what is going with fuel, the better. If it prods people to do more reserach and thinking of their own.........If we had more discussion 20-30 years ago, we might have taken more notice of the Greenies arguments then.
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Reply By: Member - Royce- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:46

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:46
What does it matter? That's exactly what this forum is about. Discuss whatever we want... particularly about exploring oz!

Maybe we should put a ban on discussing 4X4 issues, because they dominate? Or maybe tyre sizes, or telling each other obout trips we have done recently.

If you don't like them, just don't open 'em...

Censorship is not nice.

I spent $480 on fuel last week touring from Gippsland to Mildura, Western Vic and back. I open every one of the fuel posts!

BTW.. what are you paying for diesel at the moment? I'm averaging $1.70.

Maybe by the end of the year we will hit the tipping point where they can start to economically make diesel out of our brown coal.

Cheers Royce
AnswerID: 301443

Reply By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:48

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:48
Serg

I seem to remember something a couple of weeks ago where you told me if i didnt like something that was posted not to bother reading it...words to that affect anyway....so my advice to you is to take your own advice!!
AnswerID: 301444

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:34

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:34
Fine – advice taken. This is what I am personally going to do and invite you to join. Unless you happy to elaborate the same sh1t again, again and again. Thread of you reference was about heater and you were unhappy because it was way off-topic. My advice to you was ignoring ONE thread. I am talking about terminal pollution of this forum by continuous fruitless rambling. You do not like what I propose and do not like to join? Fine by me – if is free place anyway.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:10

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:10
Serg

Thread of you reference was about heater and you were unhappy because it was way off-topic.

Sorry but i dont believe FUEL posts are OT

In that post about heating i called you an idiot....and guess what...I now believe you are an even BIGGER idiot than i first thought, most of your posts dont make any sense and half the time i dont believe you even know wtf you are talking about....furthermore could you please at least try and write in english instead of the dribble language you speak in.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:05

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:05
Borgy,

I usually dislike talk in this way, but have you been visiting psychologist recently? If not you really need make an appointment. You get angry in split second from nothing and not that polite to people who did nothing wrong to you.

Yep, you right – English is not my native language and apart of enjoying this forum I am also exercising in writing. I can speak, read and write better that in English in two more languages and can understand writing and speech in3 more. How many do you know, may I ask?

But in short – FO.
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:15

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:15
"But in short – FO."

Tough words whilst sitting behind your keyboard bleep !!

Take your own advice


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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 08:14

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 08:14
Bingo!

Probe succeeds – now I know what language you understand the best. But heck, if we start to count this way then my sets will double. BTW you did not answer my question Mr. Cicero.
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 14:47

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 14:47
"most of your posts dont make any sense and half the time i dont believe you even know wtf you are talking about.."

Nothing has changed
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 15:00

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 15:00
Once very long time ago when I was a student I was lucky enough to talk face to face to very reputable professor who been among 10 of word top rated in his field. Most things what he said was no sense to me. With time some became make sense, but it took long time. I am sorry for you – considering your age and restricted vocabulary it is probably takes longer then you life expectancy to make sense out of some stuff.
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Reply By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:52

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:52
Serg

I seem to remember something a couple of weeks ago where you told me if i didnt like something that was posted not to bother reading it...words to that affect anyway....so my advice to you is to take your own advice!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:59

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 12:59
lol! If it's worth saying once......it's worth saying twice! :>]]
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Follow Up By: Member - Borgy.. (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:05

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:05
Bloody seniors moment ..lol...and im not even a senior
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:00

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 13:00
G'day Serg, While I understand where you are coming from, I cant agree with any form of censorship on forum subjects, unless
offensive etc. As stated you can bypass any post if you think it refers to fuel issues that dont interest you, but I cant give you any
right to edit what may interest me....oldbaz.
AnswerID: 301446

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:37

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:37
Oldbaz,

Who is talking about censorship and moderation?!? I am talking about self-discipline to keep our place clean.

Serg
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:52

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:52
"I am talking about self-discipline to keep our place clean."

I'm with you Serg - but that is asking too much for some of the un-disciplined crowd in here.
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:19

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:19
Ok, Ok, you blokes win. I will improve my self discipline starting now. You will be pleased to hear that neither of you will ever
again have to endure the obvious annoyance my responses have
wreaked upon you. In turn I expect never to see either of you
respond to any post referring to Fuel prices. cheers...:))....oldbaz.

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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:33

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:33
I was in no way refering to you Oldbaz, jut Serg's follow-up to your reply. There are extremely undiscipline people on this forum, you are not one of them.
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Reply By: Member - Barnesy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:44

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 14:44
There are a lot of OT threads posted here about footy, or some other topic. I posted one last week after I proposed to my now future wife! The only relevance that has to exploring oz is....um well.....it has no relevance.

The price of fuel is directly relevant and if people want to post threads on it to help understand what's going on then I don't have a problem.

Rather than encouraging others to ignore these posts tell the author of the post to do an archive search instead.

Barnesy
AnswerID: 301455

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:44

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 15:44
Barsney,

Well so often author and all other contributors understand very well what going on and it is not discussion, but rather fruitless rumbling. Only Landy somehow cannot get what is going on, probably because he forget to take off his pink glasses. OT threads? I am OK with them. I am not talking about OT, but rather about terminal pollution of this forum.


Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:06

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:06
See below!
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:07

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:07
Hang on Serg

I have a view; I’ve expressed it and reserve the right to defend that view, which I have. That others disagree is fine by me that is a forum (and democracy) at work.

However, are you suggesting we simply drop these topics because they are no longer of concern to you? Who are you to decide what others choose to discuss?

I’m not going into any debate about fuel prices here, but wherever the arguments are not rationale and based on inaccurate information I will put my 10 cents worth in. That remains my prerogative.

I have deliberately used the ‘blog’ section to express my views, in that way it doesn’t ‘pollute’ the forum as you have put it. You only read if you choose. If you disagree put forward your arguments. But don’t become the thought policeman for the forum, for heavens sake!
AnswerID: 301475

Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:16

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:16
Landy,

Do not twist my words.

1. Not because I personally dislike them, but because they are rumbling not discussion.
2. I called for self-discipline, not for moderation or censoring. If your personal preference laying somewhere else you can continue - it does not bother me.

And lets vote – if majority happy with those threads, I can write small proggy to post new one every day (or even twice per day) to make my small contribution to everybody happiness.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:24

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:24
Serg

I showed you common courtesy and respect by simply agreeing to disagree with you on a point you were discussing yesterday. This current thread you’ve initiated has nothing to do with me however you decide to take a cheap shot at me in your response to another poster.

I have no beef with you whatsoever and respect your views; forums will be full of posts that you may not agree with but respect that others have the right to differ and don’t take it down to a personal level.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:38

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 16:38
Landy,

Sorry if it offended you – it did not meant to be personal attack of any kind. But your wrong here – this thread was direct result of yesterday discussion – everyone made own mind upfront and discussion lead to nowhere. Your opinion is different from mine? I have no drama with that at all. But because we both know each other POV and both know that we cannot change other side and do not like to change our own why we need to discuss it again?

Cheers
Serg
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:15

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 17:15
I think that what Serg is trying to get across, is that we can bleat all we like about fuel prices....but it's not going to change one damn thing.

Why don't we start a lot of extra posts about the high price of tyres, or spare parts, or accessories or labour (as in servicing costs) etc etc.? Why? Because we all know it'd be a waste of time.

I work on the basis of trying to work on the things which are within my circle of influence......there are a lot of things in the broader circle (what I call my circle of concern), but because I can't do anything about them, I just concentrate on changing the things I can.

If fuel prices went up to $5.00 a litre tomorrow, I would have to walk or push-bike to work and would not be able to go on more than about one trip in the Patrol each year. I would be concerned about it (of course), but would get nothing back from any energy I expended by bangin'-on about it like a stuck pig.

If you're REALLY serious about it AND you think the pollies have ANY chance of doing ANYTHING about it, why not get yourself elected to Federal Parliament and let's see what you can do. But I gotta tell ya now; you'd be wasting ya time.

The fact of the matter is that even our most powerful world leaders cannot do anything about how much the oil price is as it is determined by a bunch of tea-towel-headed gentlemen who drive around in gold Bentleys etc...... Kevin Dudd was gunna beat-up the world with a big stick when he was campaigning..... Interest Rates would be controled and so would grocery prices and fuel prices. Anybody who voted for him on the strength of those promises probably goes down to the bottom of the garden every night to have a chat with the fairies. It ain't gunna happen.......

Roachie
AnswerID: 301492

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 02:12

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 02:12
$hit Bill ya wanna be careful here, calling "Kevin Rudd" "Kevin Dudd" you might just upset his "Best" mate on here Jim who gets really upset when you call our erstwhile and esteemed PM anything other than "Sir Kevin"
Jim seems to think its school boyish to use the term Dudd.

Cheers :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Friday, May 02, 2008 at 08:08

Friday, May 02, 2008 at 08:08
Roachie,

Thanks – you summarize it really well. And although I honestly believe that government CAN do a lot about relief as from this burden, I also strongly believe that they WILL DO ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING even if we brake our keyboard from typing excersise.

Amen.
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Reply By: Cape York Connections - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:06

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 19:06
Serg we wont talk about anything thats been done before
like.
Tyres
campervans
fridges
nissans
toyotas
Cape york
Simpson
The kimberly
Gps
Lap tops
Winches
Fuel prices
Oils
Rock crawler gears
Dif locks
Swags
Tents
Sleeping bags
Camping spots
Chemical toilets
Shovels
Axes


All the best
Eric
AnswerID: 301515

Reply By: Member - Roger B (VIC) - Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 22:49

Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 22:49
Just like any other world changing discussions round the camp fire.
AnswerID: 301587

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