Mechanic for big ends in 80 series

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 07:59
ThreadID: 5754 Views:2638 Replies:8 FollowUps:17
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I just had my 80 serviced at West End Diesel in Wetheril Park...they didn't really think it necessary to do the big ends...but after all I've heard and read it seems a worthwhile bit of preventative maintenance considering the results if they happen to be stuffed. (Its a 92 model factory turbo GXL with 200k on the clock) Can anyone recommend a decent mechanic to do the job in Western Sydney? How much etc etc
Has anyone done it themselves..how hard? I'm not shy on the spanners, just getting lazier!!
Thanks in advance :-)
Cheers
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Reply By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 11:27

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 11:27
Have you thought about going to Toyota for the work ?
They quoted me approx $400 to change the bearings and as you said its cheap insurance.
What i want to know is how do you know if its been done already by the previous owner ? Do Toyota keep a record of this stuff ?

A bloke i know had his bearings let go just a couple of months ago while towing a boat, cost him $5,500 to fix the engine.

Kev.
AnswerID: 23937

Follow Up By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 18:54

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 18:54
Opps, just checked and it looks more like $600-700.
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Reply By: Roly - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 12:21

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 12:21
can't west end do it for you, they know their stuff.

a friend of mine also does stuff from home, can out you in touch with him if you want to save a few $$$$

Roly

AnswerID: 23941

Follow Up By: mrdesmo - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:07

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:07
When I asked them about doing the big ends while in for the service $2430 worth of service...ouch!) they didn't really want to do it...asked my why I would want it done...when I told him he seemed to think it unnecessary...hmmm, left me wondering so I just let them do the service and thought I would get it done later. They seem to be an injector specialist, so I thought maybe I'd gone to the wrong place for this work. Any how...its gotta be done, there is evidence of ticking at certain revs (the valves were done during the service).
Has your mate done the big ends in an 80?
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Follow Up By: Roly - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:12

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:12
yep

he can do anything, owns an 80 series diesel and a bundy diesel

he's worked on our other mates 1hz (rebuild)

he lives in 7 hills and has a full workshop at home, ie. lathes presses etc etc, does a lot of custom fabrication stuff

he's striping my GU down if i dont sell it as it is, then i'll trade it in as a stocky...

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Follow Up By: mrdesmo - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:22

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:22
Beauty, sounds like my man...how can I get in touch? It'll be in the next few weeks, I'm just getting over the cost of the service at the mo.
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Follow Up By: Roly - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:26

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:26
contact me on roly@ mallesons.com
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Reply By: Janset - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:04

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:04
Hi mrdesmo.

Why do you want to replace the big ends ? Do you suffer low oil pressure, are they knocking? Do you suspect a problem there?

I sold some tyres to a prospector guy with a 92 troopie with a 1HZ motor (non turbo) a couple of days ago and his bus has done in the region of 400,000 Km and he is still running on the original bottom end.

From all that I have read, the overhead diesel motor 1HZ, in you case it may be the 1HD-T (Turbo) same dog different fleas does not suffer from the weaker bottom end bearing failures experienced in the earlier pre overhead cam model.

The normally aspirated 1HZ motor has a compression ration of 22.7:1 and the turbo 18.6:1 so if anything logic would indicate less loading under normal usage. Granted the turbo pumps a lot more juice in but still the compression is still less.

Mine in an intercooled 1HZ turbo with the indirect injection higher compression standard head and it has done 60,000 kM so far. Touch wood it still runs as good as the day it was modified.

My advice for what it's worth, don't look for demon under the bed unless you hear the clanking of chains in the basement :-))

Just food for thought.

Regards
AnswerID: 23945

Follow Up By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:17

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:17
I don't agree.
The 1HZ and the 1HD-T are diffrent engines but some parts are interchangable. Only the early 1HD-T engines had a problem from factory and it is not wise to wait to "hear clanking chains" as it will already be too late.
The guy towing the boat mentioned above didn't see any oil pressure drop untill the noise came and even though he shut it down straight away it was still damaged.

Also talking about less loading from the lower compression ratio would be at cranking speed but what happens when the turbo kicks in ?
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FollowupID: 16050

Follow Up By: mrdesmo - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 15:58

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 15:58
I'm with Kev on this one....have a read of this... http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html
and you'll see why I'm not going to wait around for the chains in the basement! My 80 is smack in the middle of this series......
An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure...I work as an electrical maintenance fitter, and the company I work for (very large one) has finally come round to the belief of prevenatative maint. rather than corrective maint. Its a shame watching a machine self destruct due to bad/poor maintenance.
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Follow Up By: Janset - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 13:18

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 13:18
Hi Guys.

Well what can I say. You have certainly convinced me! I just hope that the 75 Series don't start to go done this path in the future.

I wish you guys luck. Just as a point that may help.

In my younger days I owned a BSA Gold Flash m/cycle. The main bearings were, the left (load carrying side) a tapered roller bearing, but the right side was a white metal bearing. This bearing was the curse of my life as it forever kept chopping out with a symptom of a knock in the bottom end. (possibly helped along by the way I used to drove it) :-)

Anyway, after about the 3rd replacement I started to make a few enquiries with anyone I could think off and it finally paid dividends. I found that a certain after market bearing supplier could supply me with a bronze alloy bearing to replace the white metal one.

I never had anymore problems with the left side bearing. The point that I am trying to make is, are there any such bearing suppliers around these days that may be able to help you guys out with a superior aftermarket big-ends. Just a thought.

Regards

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FollowupID: 16154

Follow Up By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 13:30

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 13:30
Why did the bike bearing play up, was it a common fault ?

Maybe there was another problem like the crank wasn't ground to the correct tolerences or a slightly blocked oil gallery.

Im just glad this problem is only on the big ends and not the mains or the whole engine would have to be removed. Makes you think why one and not the other !

Kev.
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Follow Up By: Janset - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 13:49

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 13:49
Hi Kev.

No the crank was OK, as I always got the BSA specialists to install the white metal bearing. Unlike the shells of big ends and mains in cars, the white metal bearing was like a round collar that had to be pressed in. They also checked the crank and the big ends as I used to replace them also as a matter course (preventative action)

The 2 halves of the crank case were then bolted together and through ground/drilled or whatever to ensure alignment.

My theory was that there was always a small amount of play on the left side roller bearing and this caused the crank to isolate on the white metal bearing and being as soft as it was it chopped out. But the BSA wouldn't have it. Either way, the bronze alloy bearing fixed it.

Regards
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Reply By: Roly - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:15

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:15
the factory turbo diesels had bearing shell problems from new

the bearing would brreak down and flake

toyota spent lots of $$$ replacing bearing in and out of warrenty as well as complete engines after failure

Roly
AnswerID: 23946

Follow Up By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:19

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:19
Not any more though !

Thats why id like to know was there a register of what vehicals where fixed and when.
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Reply By: Roly - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:21

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 13:21
toyota should be able to tell you if THEY did the bearing change over

if not, do it anyway, piece of mind

i'm in the market for a factory TD 80 (to repla ce my GU)and i'll do it as soon as I buy one.

why wouldnt you spend $400 on an unknown engine to save a huge repair bill in the future

Roly
AnswerID: 23947

Follow Up By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:03

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:03
Yeah, good on ya !

Like to see that on the front cover of the Overlander mag instead of the 3 litre Patrol.

Suppose you could keep some of the GU gear like the Winch, roller draws and wheels ect.
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:20

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:20
This toppic was discussed on the cruiser web last week. It seems the oil we get over here is different in Calcium content to jap oil, and this may well be the reason big ends are failing. Two friends one with the 91 1hdt and the other with a 1hz/safari turbo have had bearings come out worse for wear. Do them every 100000kms and sleep well at night. $400 every 5 years is not a great outlay for a glimps at the condition of the motor. Mates 1hdt had ACL aftermarket brgs in it when he bought it, and just to make sure he had them checked.... they were delaminating like the Toyota ones, so he is on his 3rd set that we know of.
Andrew wheredayathinkwer mike?
AnswerID: 23969

Follow Up By: mrdesmo - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:33

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:33
Can you give me a link to the 'cruiser web?
Whats your opinion of the ACL's as comapared to the genuine 'yota ones?
I've never had a problem with ACL in the past...did a rebuild on a petrol Hilux and its still going strong many years later with its new owner.
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Follow Up By: Roly - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:37

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:37
best cruiser online resource

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/80scool/

thats where the page link came from 80scool
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Follow Up By: Old Jack - Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 22:01

Tuesday, Jul 01, 2003 at 22:01
Dozer, I'm interested why they where talking about the Calcium content of the oil used, the majority of lubrication oil sold in Australia is made from base crude that is imported, if it was as simple as the make up of the oil it would have been cheaper for toyota to change the oil specification than the bearings.
if you any lubricant that meets the manufactures specification is used and bearing's fail it's usually a design problem, something manufactures of all breeds dont like to own up to. when a set of Quality aftermarket bearings fail with the same type of "Damage" as apposed to normal wear as the standard bearings there is an underlying problem.
For the benifit of others reading :-basically to small an oil film area, realistically the bearings should not make contact except say ever so slightly at startup, the oil film should hold the white metal off the shaft surface, under stress loading the film is being broken and the white metal is being "picked" up off the surface causing the delamination.
Oh what a feeling !
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 07:59

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 07:59
Hi Old Jack
There are a few trains of thought
1, the oil calcium level in Jap is +3000ppm Mmmmm
2, harmonics of the turbos affecting oil flow or other Zzzzzz
3, bearing material was faulty-yeah right
4, oil pressure too low for load/and or rev range. (this one is mine)
I used to do a bit of rallying in the datto, and the rule of thumb was 10psi per 1000 rpm, so if you have 35 hot, and you can rev past 4000 with a long throw crank, the oil in the crank can be centrifically thrown to the bigends faster than the oil can be pumped into the mains, and the bigends end up loosing flow.
Explains only if the motor is reved that fast, non genuine filters are used, thinner oil or lower quality is used,
In the end who knows exactly why?? One thing is for sure, if the ACL does thesame as the Toyota, it wasnt a faulty set of brgs. Do them every 100k
Andrewwheredayathinkwer mike?
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Follow Up By: Old Jack - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 09:49

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 09:49
Thanks Andrew,
Your logic about the oil pressure follows what I said about a Design fault. We both know what basically keeps metal from metal, the problem would be basically too small a bearing surface area & In-adaquete oil pressure & flowrate(some motors run what looks like low oil pressure but have very high flow rates, toyota's 3lt 7mge sixes as an example). As for any harmonics caused by the turbo....
One problem I see is that in Our hotter climate people tend to us oils specified for colder climate's we do get a lot of extreams hear you can go from sub zero to +35 in a days drive! that said Toyota Know what the climate is like & specify lubricants to suit.
As you said if you own one of these trucks you fit a set of bearing every 100,000 or rebuild the motor some time soon
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FollowupID: 16147

Reply By: Member - Dave - Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 23:32

Wednesday, Jul 02, 2003 at 23:32
I spoke to toyota in Canberra the other day to find out if mine had been done (90 model turbo) as the previous owner and service place told me was done under warranty. What they told me was the bearings were not officially classed as warrantly but "customer satisfaction" and as such there was no register kept. Bet if you tried to get something from them they would know if it was done or not. They said that could not search under engine/chassis number as it was not a recall type of thing and was done on a case by case basis. They also said that all the ones that failed (flaking or just broke) occurred before 120 thousand. Mines 280 something and they said it would be just wear and tear. They said it would be about $500 odd to replace, and if any damage to the crank jumps straight around the $5,500 mark. This is when he started to loose me as he said the WHOLE motor would need replacing. My old man was a mechanic (now retired) and we built/rebuilt a few V8's (ford) for me. I just can not see how if the crank has some damage that you just can't buy another one, or have it reground. He also told me that you can not tell if they need replacing by oil pressure as this is maintained through the mains and not the big ends. he also said that it was only a period of bearings that were effected.

I was talking to the head of the service department so I dont know if he was just doing something in my pocket or not. Cheap insurance to replace - I think so. Will be getting mine done in the future. But with the assistance of the old man. I can say that I have been told by lots of people that the T/D in the early years there was definatley a big end problem.
AnswerID: 24082

Reply By: Member - Mal B - Friday, Jul 04, 2003 at 20:21

Friday, Jul 04, 2003 at 20:21
as a 80 series factory turbo owner 1992 model if you change your oil every 5000 k as per your owners manul no problms safe driveing mal
AnswerID: 24228

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