PM Gives ground on petrol

Submitted: Monday, May 26, 2008 at 09:30
ThreadID: 58001 Views:2529 Replies:12 FollowUps:14
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This is a step in the right direction; after all succcessive governments in Australia have been generating massive surpluses with our money. I suspect that this measure will be a long-time off, if it ever sees the light of day.

PM Gives ground on petrol
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 09:42

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 09:42
I agree, the GST on an Excise tax is unfair & should be removed, but as this idea is a part of the overall tax reform study, it wont take effect for at least 18 months, if ever. Like the Libs 5 cents
it wont make a significant difference. Some are forcasting the price of crude will fall over in a year but with extreme demand from India & China I'm not so sure. I have dropped to 90kph
& achieve considerable savings but if you are city bound that
option is not as easy......oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: madfisher - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 20:58

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 20:58
Baz what fuel savings are you getting at 90?. I often tow at this speed but find I am to impatiant to stay on 90 for long . What rpm is the Jack auto doing at this speed?. My manual Jack does 2500 at 100.
Ches Pete
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 11:06

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 11:06
Pete, I cant give you an accurate figure on the Jack at 90 kph.
What I can tell you is that last year touring the outback, towing a
C/t consumption dropped from 5.5 k to a litre at 110 kph to
7k per L by staying under 100kph. I am assuming I can get it down to 8k/L by staying at around 90kph. That is the same as I get country driving, not towing, at 110kph. I think the auto does
about 2500 at 100kph. You may find the revs may not drop that much at 90kph as you may spend more time in 4th, but the savings come from reduced drag from the air & the motor perhaps
producing better torque at that speed. The Jack is only a touring
driver, the 2 Peugeots I use went from 13 k per L to 16k. That
equates to 6.25 L per 100k down from 7.7L/100. That is serious
diesel type economy, especially from a 2L auto 4 speed.
Mate ,I felt like I was stopped when first doing it, but now I am
used to it & find I'm not the only one doing it. I already save heaps by driving low value cars (no depreciation) & I reckon this
is the only way I can cut fuel use. Its useless complaining about
the price, look to what you do control. cheers...oldbaz
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Follow Up By: madfisher - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 18:30

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 18:30
Thanks for the reply Baz. I am with you on depreciation. If you buy smart you can avoid big repair bills and depreciation. Sounds like you are happy with the Jack as I am with mine. Covered 25000ks so far and no problems only tyres and servicing.
Cheers Pete
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Reply By: Member - John G- Monday, May 26, 2008 at 09:51

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 09:51
G'day Landy

It is good to see a shift in the political discussion and hard not to be cynical about how long it has taken our elected representatives to start acknowledging the imposition of both excise and GST on fuel. It's a bit of a minefield to start thinking about different GST rates though. Where would that end?

So, without doing any maths about revenue difference between a cents / litre cut on excise or a % decrease in GST, I think I'd go for a cents / litre cut in excise, "if it ever sees the light of day".

Cheers
John
AnswerID: 305893

Reply By: DIO - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 10:06

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 10:06
ANY discussion on reform is better than NO discussion at all. Guess the Govt's biggest worry (concern/bitter pill) is that once you remove a tax or excise it becomes hard (unpopular) to reinstate same.
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Reply By: Waynepd (NSW) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 10:12

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 10:12
And of course he can't be seen to attack or change an excise which was supported by previous versions of his party but removing the GST component is an attack on the libs because they introed GST. Everything has political nuances doesn't it.
AnswerID: 305899

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 10:31

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 10:31
Although a reduction in excise is better than a reduction/re,oval of GST as business already receive input credits for GST on fuel in any case. So the fairer way to go would be the excise, especially as business is hurting just as much.....
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Reply By: _gmd_pps - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 11:35

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 11:35
will just drive inflation more
fuel prices will go up further ..
people are just too stupid here ... spending instead of saving..
and not thinking where they buy ..
triple the fuel price and return the money through tax benefits for transport businesses. that may eventually get 90% of the larger vehicles off the road. If you buy a V8 ute today you deserve to pay three times the fuel price. stop complaining and start thinking.
good luck
gmd
AnswerID: 305916

Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 11:43

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 11:43
I'd like to think that it was a direct result of EO concerns about the price of fuel! So can you guys up the ante a little because I am retiring in a couple of years and it would be nice if fuel price was under pressure between now and then!

Correction - that would be downward pressure.

I have hears that Kevie reads this forum so it might be true.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 20:11

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 20:11
Hey Kevie if you are there jump in any time.


Hi Theo how goes it?
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 07:34

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 07:34
G'day Wayne,

All's well here! How about you? Going to Peak Hill? We are planning to go for the week so maybe we'll see you there.

Kind regards

Theo
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Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 13:25

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 13:25
Nah Mate,
unfortunately work lines up with that week so i am out of luck this time around too. bummer

there's always next year, and if not i should be on Long Service Leave in 2010 with no plans to come back in 2011 yayyyyyyyyy
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Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 12:46

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 12:46
The debate re cutting govt taxes/excise on fuel is a complete red herring. Prices are going up sharply because the writiing re supply and demand is on the wall. It has gone up at a faster rate than the actual supply/demand situation because companies are now speculating on future movements. That doesn't change the underlying reality of supply/demand though. Prices may come back a little for brief periods of time, but they will then keep rising inexorably- unless we can change the supply/demand equation. We either need to cut back demaqnd (extremely unlikely) or increase production. There are no new major oil feilds of sufficient size that have been discovered in the last 10 years, despite a frantic search. (the cost of which is adding to the current fuel price).
We need to be using taxes to set up new infrastructure in the fuel that we do have; that is natural gas. Compressed natural gas for vehicles in cities (because of the limiited range of vehicles on CNG) and Natural gas to liquid diesel technology for long distance stuff. Both already exist and are competitive at current oil prices.

There is absolutely no point in cutting the government take from fuel. The issues is, what is the government is doing to prepare the country for the next decade and beyond?
AnswerID: 305927

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 13:35

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 13:35
Hear what you are saying but, political expediency usually means that the remedy will be short-sighted and done to placate the masses as quickly as possible. Governments’ rarely have the fortitude to look beyond the present term of parliament, usually because voters are fixated on the present not the future themselves.
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Follow Up By: Mogul - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 18:00

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 18:00
Regarding gas powered vehicles why doesn't someone develop a sustem by where you can gas up your car from your gas supply at home.
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Follow Up By: Member - Nifty1 (NSW) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 18:15

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 18:15
Such a system does exist, I saw it demonstrated at least 15 years ago in Canberra for CNG.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 20:29

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 20:29
Landy, it saddens me, but I can only agree with you. The shortsightedness of our pollies is insulting to the electorate. We need a polly with the balls of Winston Churchill, when he said"I can offer you nothing but blood, sweat and toil etc" There is not going to be any quick, cheap solution to this. It will require major investment and long term commitment to put alternative infrastructures in place. But it is already feasible. I think the public is less stupid than the pollies give them credit for. If either party said, we will undertake to change the fuel infrastucture of Australia. It will take x years to roll it out and cost us all $XXXXXXX, then I think the public would go along with it. It may be expensive now, but in the long run it will be a bargain. If the current fuel charge is take off, they have to put another charge on somewhere else to replace the revenue that now goes to the states.
Mogul, I understand that such CNG systems have existed for years and are available in New Zealand. I keep asking, but no-one answers. Is there anyone out there in EO land who knows about this stuff in NZ? i have only heard 3rd hand that it is already used in NZ. You can bet that the oil companies haven't been arguing for the roll out of this technology in Australia.
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Follow Up By: Mogul - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 21:20

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 21:20
Found a link here.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 21:38

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 21:38
Mogul, your blood is worth bottling. I have been looking without success for a link like that. So why don't we do it here? What is to stop any of us importing one of these to run our car? And why aren't the pollies telling us about this rather than the BS about the fuel tax?

Are you reading this Porl? With the $ you made on LNC shares, perhaps you could set up a business importing these and put shellmob out of business.
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Reply By: desert - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 13:27

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 13:27
Remember Howards claim of a GST REPLACING all other taxes and when he got in we found that these levi's, excises etc, were not taxes! A play on words. Any Government that scraps the excise and puts in place the flat GST, as promised, will win the next election on fuel and food costs alone.
AnswerID: 305936

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 15:41

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 15:41
GST replaced wholesale sales tax.
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Reply By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 17:05

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 17:05
Don't forget the states all need to agree to any changes to GST.

Posssible scenario ; eliminate GST, and increase rate on everything else from 10% to ??

Pedro
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Reply By: marq - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 19:22

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 19:22
Who cares about petrol - diesel what govt should be looking at!

AnswerID: 305979

Reply By: Member - David P (VIC) - Monday, May 26, 2008 at 20:45

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 20:45
Why do we waste our breath on this particular matter. 3.5c....5c....who cares it goes up each week by at least that much.
The thing to worry about is the demand/supply equation. Pray that the high prices result in new fields being found/developed some hundreds of ks off shore or develop CNG/LNG alternatives.....cheers,
silverback
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 15:46

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 15:46
If you are whinging about fuel prices now, wait until next year when the effects of signing the Kyoto Protocol take effect & we have to start paying offsets for our carbon emissions.
Prices of fuel, oil, electricity & gas will all rise significantly & boost inflation which will probably lead to increased interest rates.
This was reason that the previous government wouldn't sign.
AnswerID: 306323

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