Driving on wet roads

Submitted: Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 20:46
ThreadID: 58234 Views:2348 Replies:12 FollowUps:11
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On my way home today after night shift not far from home, a car came around a bend on a hilly section and the back end went out and they over corrected and lost control. I pulled right off of the road as they were heading for me and as I passed looked in my mirror to see the car hit the culvert (three foot deep) right were it was built up for a driveway. The car rolled three times, and I went back as I was the only one on the road, the car was a mess windows smashed and roof caved in and thought to myself this isn't going to be good but to my surprise the young girl driving was a bit battered and bruised but other wise ok. I managed to get her out through the passenger window and away from the car in case it went bang and then rang 000 and waited for help.
All while this was going on several cars passed and not one stopped to check if we were ok, several went past well over the speed limit. I am a bit disheartened with some peoples ignorance at other peoples misfortune as I would hope that people would stop and help me if needed. It also helped that I had my first aid kit with me (A must for all cars).
The young girl was ok and taken for x rays just in case.
Just not happy with the rubber neckers.
So please take it easy on the wet roads.

Regards Ross







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Reply By: Member - Paul C (NSW) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 21:24

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 21:24
Ross
Glad to hear everyone was alright.

A few years back, I finished a 12hr shift on New Years Eve, got home ready for bed and had two beers.
Let's go out I say to my pregnant partner. We'll go via the bottlo and have a good night.(Pregnant partner drove obviously)
Well we headed for the wrong bottlo as a car came straight through a Stop sign and T boned the little Pulsar.
I can honestly say I have never been more calm in a situation when I turned to Deej and said " It looks like we've been in an accident, Are you Okay? (Yes) Are you sure? ( Yes)"
That calmness turned to total shock when I hopped out and saw the front end of the other car destroyed with the airbag deployed. I can honestly say that I will never feel a sense of relief that I did when the driver told me he was Okay and that no one else was in the car.
The response from all the locals was fantastic as was the Emergency services.

It can happen to anyone but until you're involved (directly or indirectly)you really don't appreciate what it us like.

Downside. Car full of young blokes driving past the scene and yelled out "suck bleep "
By the time all the formalities were sorted out bottlos were shut and New Year was spent looking back rather than forward

Upside. Pulsar was written off and we got into 4WDriving.

Take care
AnswerID: 307016

Reply By: Member - Axle - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 21:30

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 21:30
Mate you are a few of the Genuine ones out there these days !!!

Have seen it so many times, People don/t want to be involved any more!, Why???? is it being selfish, I"m alright Jack", or are they scared of being questioned by others that might reveal some nasties about them?, the list goes on!, But one thing is for sure! "things arn't what they used to be".


Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 307018

Follow Up By: Ross H (QLD) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:38

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:38
Mate it is not hard just to ask if someone is ok but what really got me was how fast people went past. The copper who was taking my statement took off twice and chased people and one was going so fast that they didn't manage to round him up.

ross
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FollowupID: 572888

Reply By: Member - Phillip S (WA) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 21:56

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 21:56
A workmate had a blowout on the front left hand wheel of his Falcon sedan at 120 kph just after passing a semi, in the middle of the day, lost control of the vehicle, it left the hardtop, skidded across the gravel verge, down a steep embankment into a group of medium size trees. before coming to a standstill.....He was OK ( needed a new pair of jocks)....was by himself and nobody else was involved....one totally destroyed tyre on a alloy rim...with nothing to grip for leverage he had trouble removing the wheel so he could fit the spare, took him nearly an hour........................NO ONE STOPPED TO SEE IF HE WAS OK OR TO HELP....even though traffic was thick the WHOLE time.....I think this what you can expect to see more often....people are too busy to stop!
AnswerID: 307023

Reply By: Bware (Tweed Valley) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:12

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:12
"several went past well over the speed limit" - It never ceases to amaze me that on rural roads and highways people don't slow down in the wet.

On rural roads it tends to be the locals; maybe they have become complacent because they 'know the roads'. Even when it is dry they drive around bends in the middle of the road.
AnswerID: 307026

Reply By: DIO - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:19

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:19
Well done. You need to remember a couple of things:

1. When you stop at an accident without the necessary safety equipment to protect yourself and parties involved. you are likely to create additional and unecssary hazards to other motorists. Particularly when they 'rubber neck'.

2. Sometimes simply getting involved because it seemed the right thing to do can lead to additional liability problems for you particularly if you contribute to a person's injury by moving or re-positioning them when they might have severe or even life threatening injuries.

Best thing to do is to try and get assistance from a couple of other people/motorists and try and create a 'chicane' or a restriction, using vehicle with headlights or flashers activated to try and slow passing traffic, keep of the main carriageway (the road) and don't try to direct traffic. In some States it's illegal to do so. It's the domanin of Police.
Generall accident/collision scenes can be extremely dangerous even for Emergency Service workers. It's not uncommon for additional accidents/collisions to result from inattention being paid by passing motorists.
AnswerID: 307028

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (FNQ) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:33

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:33
DIO
Another good response, I'll be on my merry way.

.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:51

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:51
No body here or is the US has ever been sued for giving first aid.

Even if you moved them and they became a quadriplegic from your actions.

A well trained person would know when and when not to move a injured person.

I would of left her in the car unless she could of got out or there was an immediate danger of further injury or death and the only person who can make that decision is the person who is applying the first aid.

There is no right or wrong in that circumstance.

To apply first aid to a injured person you have to get there permission unless unconscious.

Stupid enough they can also refuse and Ambulance even if there arm is cut off, all anyone can do is wait until they ask for assistance or become unconscious.... even Ambo's.

You always have to put your safety first, by standers second and the person injured third.

There are certain thing you can do and can't do with people who may have neck or back injuries mostly to do with positioning of the head.









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Follow Up By: Ross H (QLD) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:55

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 22:55
Yep totally agree but in some situations the best thought out plan can go to crap.
I did use my car to slow people down at a safe distance.
The young girl said she appeared to be ok when I asked, but she was obviously in a bit of shock. The only way out was through the passanger window. Apart from her wellbeing my main concern was the fuel leaking, I made a choice to get her out.
Easier to live with someone being injured than watching them burn to death.
Regards Ross
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 23:49

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 23:49
Well then you did the right thing, you made a judgment that only you could make at that time.

Nobody can tell you what is right or wrong because we weren't there and every time it will be different.

I think alot of people don't want to get involved because they think they can be sued or they just don't know what to do.

No body has to render assistance if someone is injured unless it is part of your job like a first aid officer, off duty ambo's fireys or police don't even have to.

We spent 7 hours learning "duty of care" and the whys if's and buts of rendering assistance, if you render assistance to a injured person then you have a "duty of care" but if you decide not to the there is no "duty of care".
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Follow Up By: navaraman - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:18

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:18
Olcoolone wrote

"You always have to put your safety first, by standers second and the person injured third."

I'm not disagreeing with that but IMO there is no place for bystanders in an accident situation, if they are not assisting they should be out of the way and I'll always put the injured party before rubbernecking hangers on.
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FollowupID: 572913

Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:45

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:45
In an ideal world yes in reality no.

In first aid training they always tell you to put yourself first , bystander second and injured person third why?......it's better to have one injured person then two.

You always use DRABC D is for danger.

Ambulances these day only carry one injured person and they will alway attend to the more server injury first... the original injured person who the ambulance was called for has a a broken arm, is aware of there surroundings and are comfortable and the bystander hurt them self and then become unconscious, who is the more critical person.

It would be nice to think that us as humans can look out for our own danger and asses the situation but unfortunately alot of humans can't.
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Follow Up By: Stephen M (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 11:04

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 11:04
Providing you only do what you were trained to do and that is to access the incident, safety comes first, then you can apply first aid BUT only in what you have been trained. You can move a person IF there is a chance they are in danger as in your case a possible bang from the fuel. If you start to pull out a needle and cotton and try sowing there arm back on then you can be sued as you are not trained or qualified to do so. These days every body is too scared of being sued so they would rather not get involved which is terrible. If it was me I would be glad to see a face and helping me. And as mentioned above I would rather remember the face of the person been so grateful then remember the screams of the person burning to death. (blood running cold thinking of it). All up you did a great thing and I'm sure she and her family would have aprreciated it. GOod on you. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: zigglemeister - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 00:36

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 00:36
Twelve or fourteen years ago now, Some friends and I were driving home from the snowfields after a day's skiing. It had been snowing hard so the traffic was bumper to bumper, absolutely crawling along, and we saw a number of cars that had slid off the road. Then we saw a car off the side of the road with steam still coming out of the exhaust, so stopped to check if they were okay. They were, and we realised that if we could just get three or four more guys to give a push, we could get them back on the road, rather than them having to wait hours and hours for a tow truck. So I naively started waving at the cars coming past, still bumper to bumper, asking people to stop and give a hand. Car after car just ignored me totally and kept crawling past - average speed was prob 20 km/h, so it's not like they were into the distance before they could stop! I could not believe it. Finally, about 50 cars later, a bunch of young blokes pulled over. It only took our combined efforts a minute or so and the car was back on the road. But my faith in the Aussie habit of lending a helping hand had taken a severe blow.

Tim Z
AnswerID: 307041

Reply By: Member - Michael O (NSW) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 06:45

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 06:45
Know this might sound a bit mathematical, but I reckon the chances of someone stopping to assist increase as the amount of traffic falls.

For example, I did the Birdsville Track alone a few years ago and was amazed at the number of people who would stop and check if I was OK when I pulled over; maybe I was taking a photo, or a "nature "stop", but they always checked.

But I've stopped to help at a nasty accident on a busy Friday night in the middle of town and everyone just gawks at you...

Monday I have Friday on my mind...
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AnswerID: 307048

Reply By: Holden4th - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 07:01

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 07:01
As a fully qualified first aider with paramedic training I don't think I have any choice but to pull over and assist. I've got an inkling that there's a statute about this (I can't be sure) where you are not only morally obliged but legally obliged to assist an injured person - unlike the US where the opposite applies.
AnswerID: 307049

Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:50

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:50
The only time you have to stop and render first aid is if you are on duty and it is part of your job description.

Even off duty Ambo's don't have to.

Yes it sucks.
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FollowupID: 572917

Follow Up By: Member - Straps (SA) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 10:59

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 10:59
If you have no relationship (ie direct involvement) with the incident, then you have no legal obligation to stop.

No matter who / what you are...

As for moral / ethical obligations, well thats a little more subjective. A professional body such as a nurses board or medical board might look unfavourably upon a nurse or doctor for not stopping at an incident if the circumstances essentially warranted it. (ie a remote track / low passing traffic area etc)

This is more praticular if it were shown that simple first aid type measures could have minimised further harm or in fact saved the persons life.

Bottom line - no one has to stop if they are not involved in the accident / incident HOWEVER morally / ethically it would be suggested that at least the first 1 - 3 cars / people should stop and render assistance and call for help.

Cheers
Shane
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FollowupID: 572933

Reply By: The Geriatric Gypsies - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:03

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:03
goodday all
i posted on another forum after reading a similar post
TO STOP OR NOT
if you are passing an accident and nobody has stopped YOU STOP
but once there is 1 or 2 cars stopped do you stop to offer more help and BECOME part of traffic stopping crowd or do you drive on
steve
AnswerID: 307057

Reply By: Top End Explorer Tours - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:20

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:20
I have attended 3 serious car accidents over the years, I felt obliged to as I have a senior First aid certificate, I would find it hard to live with myself if I hadn't stopped and found out latter that someone died because no was able to render first aid, I am now enrolled to get my remote first aid course as well.

I really believe that a 3 day first aid course should be a requirement for your license, As in most occasions a senior first aid course is all that is needed to keep someone alive long enough for an ambulance to arrive.

I also believe that most rubber neckers and on lookers would be more a hindrance than a help, as I have seen this first hand.

A first aid kit in your car is a legal requirement, in most European countries.

In the N.T. you can not be sued for rendering first aid, even if you get it wrong.

Good on you for stopping and doing the right thing.
AnswerID: 307061

Reply By: Ozboc - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:31

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:31
I have had the miss fortune to be first at a few accidents.... One was a fatal where a guy had hit the telegraph pole - impact was so bad that it took one of his shoes off - he was originally sitting in the front seat -- when i got there -- he was in the boot

second was a Motorcycle accident ( i am also a motorcyclist ) the guy had been to the pub and tried to balance a case of beer on his fuel tank and return home with it -- on the corner it fell off - he came undone and came off --- this happened just a few seconds before we got there ...... My X friend was driving ... I told him to stop ..... he would not .... I SCREAMED AT HIM F&^&^N stop ... he didn't he just continued on... Got into a MASSIVE argument with him which almost come to blows ..... he is no longer a friend as this selfish act showed me his true colours.....

another was a 3 car pile up that happened in front of me .... A leading radio station had set up some cars on the side of the road to give away freebies , drinks , tee shirts and so forth ... One car decided last second to slam on the brakes hard to get some freebies - 3 cars slam into her really hard ....... I had to assist her in getting out of the car via a window ....

too many more that i have witnessed .... but like the Op said - some people just drive by and rubber neck .. never offer assistance , and in the case of my friend ( that is no longer a friend ) his excuse was he didn't want to get involved .....

Pathetic

Boc
AnswerID: 307062

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 21:26

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 21:26
Ross, I reckon its a 'leave it to someone else' mentality these days.

Notice it more in just about all areas of society, not just accidents.

However, reading all the replies to your thread, I'm amazed how bogged down in legalities one can get into simply by rendering assistance.

The Professionals are the ones for the job and until they arrive its up to you to provide any assistance and comfort to the victim as you are capable of.

Good on yer mate..........Lionel.
AnswerID: 307238

Follow Up By: Ross H (QLD) - Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 22:48

Sunday, Jun 01, 2008 at 22:48
Totally agree with you Lionel and yep would do the same thing tomorrow.

Regards Ross
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FollowupID: 573122

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