Unbelievable Vehicle Choices

Submitted: Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 09:44
ThreadID: 58438 Views:3705 Replies:17 FollowUps:18
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Hi Folks, my wife has been away swanning it up in the Hunter Valley doing her best to empty a few cellars down there and I have been doing the Mr Mom thing dropping my son at school and picking him up every afternoon and have been looking at all the "trucks" parked out the front of the school.

Yesterday, I was in a line of 4b's that consisted of a Jeep Grand, a Prado (new shape), my GU then 2 Crusiers (100 series) and another 80 series. I could not help laugh as I saw all these shiny new (apart from the 80 and my GU) 4wd's picking up kids from school, none of them looked ready for a dirt road let alone Landcruiser Park, and there in the middle was my insect covered screen with more aerials than NASA control centre and even more dirt/mud than paint surface showing sadly looking and trying to talk to me....."where's the dirt?"

This line up was only one of a few that consisted only of 4wd's the odd smattering of sedans was in amongst the sea of 4b's. Amazing when most will never see a dirt road.

What drives people to buy such expensive vehicles to run and maintain when there is cheaper alternatives? In my family it is the wife, she usually does the school thing in our shopping cart known as the Jackeroo. Still no logic to us having this car either. (Before everyone has a go at my GU, it is used for what it was bought for, not many other vehicles would cope with the caning this thing cops from me and keep coming back for more.)

Cheers, Trevor.
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Reply By: palmy - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 09:53

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 09:53
I had similar thoughts when following a stock standard 100 Series TD. Then I thought, who am I to judge this person? For all I know they want to tow a caravan/boat/horse float.
Everyone has there own reasons for buying what they - heck, they may just like it! :)
AnswerID: 308084

Reply By: robak (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 09:59

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 09:59
Maybe we should ask the goverment to bring in laws which dictate what types of cars we are allowed to drive. Until then, it's a free country.
AnswerID: 308086

Reply By: _gmd_pps - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:07

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:07
The ultimate Kindergarden car is the LC 200 series istn't it ..
Well you can see the amount of brain in this country when you look at the overall credit figures. The priority is a 4WD or V8 or both for that matter and the long nothing and then a private school for the kids. Oh I forgot the beer has to be paid first.
have fun
AnswerID: 308090

Follow Up By: disco driver - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 14:00

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 14:00
We drive a Discovery TD5 as a family vehicle, shopping, touring and towing the caravan.
I also drive a Series 3 Landrover trayback, fishing, collecting wood, taking rubbish to the trip and anything else that requires carting around.

Why do I do this????
In the eyes of some people I'm over the top???

Because I want bloody well want to.

It is MY choice, and bugger anyone who thinks I'm doing the wrong thing.


PS. They are both paid for.
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Reply By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:14

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:14

I understand where you are coming from and I guess the simple answer to why they drive them is because they can.

I tend to agree with Palmy and Robak though, live and let live I say. It always amazes me to see the venom with which the 4WD community attacks the "Toorak Tractor" set. It is ironic that as a group we will vehemently defend our "right" to drive what vehicles we want, but then you will often hear the same people turn around and suggest that, because you don't use your vehicle off road, you don't have the same right. Kind of hypocritical I think.

The real issue for us as 4WDers is that the demand for 4WDs which never get used off road means that the manufacturers are increasingly designing and building 4WDs that appeal to people who don't use them off road at the expense of true off road capability. A 40 series was really only designed with one purpose in mind. The 200 series? Well, it tries to be too many things and probably doesn't perform any of them exceptionally well. Its not just Toyotas either.

So maybe we should blame the Toorak set for increasing softness, but not for owning them in the first place. They have just as much right as any of us.


AnswerID: 308091

Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:15

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:15
"The 200 series? Well, it tries to be too many things and probably doesn't perform any of them exceptionally well"
Tow vehicle: Brilliant.
Beach vehicle: Excellent.
Outback Tourer: Very good performer.
High Country explorer: Very capable.
On road: Great handling.
They are spacious, comfortable, quiet & reliable. Where is it they don't perform very well Matt ;-))
Cheers Craig...............
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:35

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:35
At $90,000 it should do damn near anything.

It has a crude diesel engine by European standards.

Outback Tourer: It has a Tare of 2670 kg and a GVM of 3250. By the time you fill the fuel tanks, put in a family of 5, you can't carry any camping gear legally.

Reliabilty has yet to be proven, it is very new qand it takes years to etablish this.

Outback Tourer: Get fair dinkhum, a Magna could be classified as an "Outback Tourer".

I always thought an "High Country Explorer" was a man, not a machine.

Seriously Craig, that was the greatest load of sublective rot.


FollowupID: 574002

Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:30

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:30
Jim price is pretty irrelevant when discussing a vehicles performance & you shouldn't let your inability to afford one discount it as a true 4x4 particually without having driven one off-road 1st.
Being over weight (like the majority of vehicles) may be illegal & it could as you put it have a "crude diesel engine" but neither feature makes it perform any less capably.
Magna's..........man, not a machine, who's getting subjective now ;-)))

Cheers Craig........
FollowupID: 574023

Follow Up By: Pnut (cns) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:31

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:31
spot on Jim.
esp, for on road touring, which is what most people do to get anywhere, our choice is not our 4WD d/cab, but our AWD 07 Liberty - now there's an on road tourer, and 6.8L/100km is the icing on the cake.

FollowupID: 574025

Reply By: Member - Porl - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:19

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:19
I think it's hilarious, and those people whinge about fuel prices, when does a 4WD get its worst fuel consumption (other than in low range) - when it's stop starting in traffic ...

Mind you, our boss's wife drives their kids to shopping centres and school in a work paid for DiD top spec Pajero so gets the fuel and services salary sacrificed - now that's a rort the government could clamp down on.

My utes for agricultural hobbies and play, we use a toyota echo round the burbs.
AnswerID: 308093

Follow Up By: Member - AJB (VIC) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 18:04

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 18:04
Problem with clamping down on those "rorts" is that then there will need to be a wage rise. All salary sacrifice people do is lower their taxable income and everyone should try and do that as we allready pay enough in taxation through other wacky schemes introduced by various elected govenments.
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:20

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 10:20
Agree Trev.

I just don't understand it.

Fourbies don't go, don't handle and use a heap of juice.

Seems to be a fashion statement these days.


AnswerID: 308094

Reply By: chisel - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:02

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:02
A lot of families buy 4wd because (a) they're big enough for the family, (b) they can handle the yearly camping trips up the beach or wherever.
Just because they are used to pick kids up from school (and aren't covered with aerials etc) doesn't mean they don't get used offroad at all. That said, I'm sure quite a few don't - but you can't make the assumption by just looking at them or seeing them picking up kids at school.
My wife drives our 100 series around during the week and we get away camping every now and then. Apart from the extra cost of owning 2 vehicles - I simply don't have the space for 2 vehicles at our house so if I want to do and 4wding, even if it is only a few times a year, and don't want to hire (what a pain) then I need to own a 4wd and use it as a daily driver.

What's the big problem? 4wds aren't *that* much more expensive to own than a large falcodore or people mover.
AnswerID: 308101

Follow Up By: zigglemeister - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:39

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 20:39
Hear, hear!

I have five (tall) kids and the desire to go camping now and then. So I drive a GU on lpg. These days that costs only a little more to run than a Commodore or Falcon on petrol. The alternative would be some sort of people mover that I wouldn't be able to do any self-maintenance on because there isn't room to poke even a toothpick into the engine bay; hence lots more money in servicing. With the Patrol I can do most of my own. We have an old Holden Nova which we try to do the running around in as much as possible; but of course, if we're ever picking the five kids up from school, then it has to be the Patrol. We might only get off the beaten track three or four times a year - but it's a pleasure to have the ability to do that, and this year it'll be the Simpson.
Most people that have a 4wd would have a reason for it that actually makes sense, once their full circumstances are known.

Tim Z
GU Patrol 4500 Petrol/LPG, with politically incorrect roo bar (in case of roos - shame the one I hit was in the Nova!), nasty vision-obscuring 2" lift (in case of dragging the belly on the sand), poser UHF antenna (attached to the poser UHF radio so I can talk to my cousin on a trip), and a bunch of kids who like the bush, don't have a Playstation and don't really care.
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:08

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:08
G'day Trevor, mate, you have left yourself open to a few shots.
I think you may have even shot yourself in the foot using a Jack
as a shopping trolley. Great car, have one in the shed for my
holiday touring, but hardly an economic daily driver. Fortunately
we can all drive exactly whatever vehicle takes our fancy, & that is as it should be. Sure, like you, I find no sense in paying huge sums
for a 200 or other overpriced car, depreciation is a killer, & far
exceeds the cost of fuel for the average owner. I'm not sure I can agree that 200, Prado, Jeep etc are not ready for a dirt road.
I must also point out that out here in the bush many 2wd sedans
spend most of their lives on dirt roads & country folk dont consider
dirt to require 4WD, nor do they engage 4wd as soon as leaving
the blacktop as many misguided 4wd drivers seem to think is
necessary. But ,like the choice of car we drive, how & where we drive is still a matter of personal preference....& may it always be so.......cheers.....oldbaz.
AnswerID: 308102

Reply By: palmy - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:13

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:13
4WDs don't handle, use heaps of fuel etc etc????

Where'd this come from? Most if not all handle well (when driven well within their limits), and pretty much all diesels use comparable fuel quantities to large family cars if not a darn sight less!

My wife's been driving our Patrol around our local area just going to work/child care/shopping centres. Work, and new baby have really limited our camping/going away time lately. Maybe we should sell it until we get back to camping! I don't think so....

Too many people judge others all to often these days, it's a free country lets keep it that way.
AnswerID: 308106

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:46

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:46
I think the thread has been taken in the wrong context by many. It is not an open handed swipe at anyone driving any vehicle for any reason other than it's intended purpose. I am not that sort of person. It was a question directed towards why we (me and my wife included) buy such expensive vehicles to run and maintain whilst there is cheaper alternatives to do the same job.

I have answered this question as it stands in our family and I was wondering the reasoning behind it for other families.

Hope you all get a clearer picture of my question.

Cheers, Trevor.
AnswerID: 308110

Follow Up By: palmy - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:58

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:58
Fair enough Trevor, but it'd work out more expensive to have say a 4WD and a small car (for the city) than just using the 4WD all the time. Taking into account purchase price/maintaining both cars etc etc...

Having two 4wds then? Well that's just extravagance... :)
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Follow Up By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 17:21

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 17:21
Palmy....not true mate, I did the sums about 2 months ago

On buying a $2000 car or motorbike to commute to work and parking the Patrol for trips ect.

For me it worked out $4000 in net savings with the bike and $2000 in net savings for a small car IE Barina/swift.

So I bought a bike for $1600 so in around 5 months time the bike has paid itself off and I am saving money.

Note those savings are after ALL costs are included

Cheer Stefan
FollowupID: 573972

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54
People movers are way too expensive - may as well buy a 4wd.

My wife used to cart our 4 kids to school in an 11 seater HJ47 Troopie.
AnswerID: 308111

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Jun 13, 2008 at 00:45

Friday, Jun 13, 2008 at 00:45
You can kill a HJ47 Phil - and no ambiguity either as to it's use...
FollowupID: 575577

Reply By: V64Runner - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:21

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:21
Ah, well , as the old saying goes : " if you have it then flaunt it" Some like to show off their wealth with "I must have the latest and greatest 4x4 " just to keep up with the Jones`s etc. Seeing as I didn`t win the $58,000,000 powerball jackpot last night , I guess I`ll still have to keep driving my trusted old 4Runner. It serves my purpose, runs on Direct Injection LPG and returns 12.2 L/100 Km at a steady 100kmh. Its a tough life, but someone has to do it .
AnswerID: 308121

Reply By: Top End Explorer Tours - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:51

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:51
I love the mum bus, Why you ask ?

Simple the well maintained mum bus today is you're cheaper well maintained never been off road 4WD tomorrow when they up grade.

By the way if Mr scrubby could see the kids being picked up from Jabiru school, he would be horrified.

Every child is picked up in a 4WD, as nobody in Jabiru has anything different.

Cheers Steve.

AnswerID: 308123

Follow Up By: Therifleman - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 15:02

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 15:02
To Trevor R,I think in Australia it should be Mr."Mum" not "mom".Also sorry to see we wont be hearing from Doug T any more.
FollowupID: 573950

Follow Up By: ChrisVal7 - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 15:05

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 15:05
As Steve says, therre are some places which require a 4 WD vehicle.Kakadu is one of those places; just about everyone goes off the beaten track fishing or exploring in the National Park.

We have a 3 tonne offroad caravan (a Kedron) and need the Landcruiser 100 series to pull it. We don't currently own a second vehicle - so when one of us goes shopping, or to the cinema etc and the vehicle has been cleaned (not often, I admit) then we could be accused of having one of the Toorak tractors. One can't judge from appearance whether or not the driver really needs the vehicle.

Ironically, when we lived in Jabiru (my husband was the school principal there years ago) we had an ancient 1970's model Toyota 'cruiser, which got us every were we needed to go.
FollowupID: 573951

Reply By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 17:31

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 17:31
Hi Trevor,
I could see where this thread was gunna go and I know how hard it is to judge tone with text.
As others have said "choice" & "prestige" would be the main factor, I would guess.
While the wives are 'showing off' the wagon, hubby's has to drive around in the 10 year old daewoo/hyundia/kia,with strict instructions not to be seen, I don't know if you have ever seen the TV show "keeping up appearances", but it would be something like that.
AnswerID: 308165

Follow Up By: disco driver - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 18:47

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 18:47
Now you're making assumptions with no evidence to back up your statements.
It's a bit like assuming that all the so-called Toorak Tractors never go off road. No evidence, no proof, just hearsay.

There's no prestige in driving an old Series LandRover either, but I go where I want in it, don't give a damn what anyone else thinks about it............................................ or me.

(Who only has to justify his actions to SWMBO, no one else.)
FollowupID: 573987

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:48

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:48
My statement was directed at Trevor, which is why I started with "Hi Trevor".
He would know what I said was VERY tongue in cheek, other's would not.
I also used the line "I know how hard it is to judge tone with text", this is a CLASSIC example, Thanks for reinforcing my FIRST line of my reply.
(Who Rarely has to justify anything to anyone)
FollowupID: 574006

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:01

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:01
Hi Shane,

I know what you mean. It is hard to judge someone through a computer screen and those that do know me, know I would never get on the offensive unless seriously provoked.

I would have thought the only direction the thread may have went is "yeah sure you were looking at the 'trucks' and not the yummy mummies" LOL!!! maybe I should have taken into account that so many need to get on the defensive about such a subject.

Enough said.
Regards always,
FollowupID: 574067

Reply By: Dunedigger - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:33

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 19:33

Next time while you are in in the wait line, hop out and have a talk with each driver.

Dunno who you MIGHT meet and you will be doing the research that needs to be done to find out how many of those shopping trolleys actually get to see a gravel road.

AnswerID: 308192

Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:13

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 22:13
Hi Dunedigger,

Problem is, when the missus gets back I would be in the doo doo for attempting to lay a line or two on the mums.

So far from my "research" there is only a couple that like to take their rigs......... ahhhh I better shut it, the wife will be home before I know it and this thread will still be going ROFLMAO!!!

Thanks for answering.
FollowupID: 574075

Reply By: roblin - Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:38

Friday, Jun 06, 2008 at 23:38
Having read this thread it would appear that there appears to be a bit of 'us and them' here. I don't like Harold Scrubie too much and he gets his fair of criticism but there appears to be a load of people here are showing similar narrow mindedness.

As has been suggested, people buy vehicles for various reasons. When I bought my Prado it only had the Sovereign bullbar and some spotties on it. Complete with Grand Treks and the new look it too would not have 'looked ready for a dirt road let alone Landcruiser Park'. So what. How many peopll (except the show offs) go out and spend $1 000s to $10 000s straight away on their new 4by. Over the past 5 years, mine now has a few scratches and more equipment. I do go off road, have a CT and enjoy the solitude of getting away from it all.

Just because a vehicle isn't covered in mud, insects and crap may mean the owners actually appreciate they have an expensive vehicle and they actually look after it.

Believe it or not, most family people don't buy a car/4wd to show off. Does that mean that if someone buys an SS Commodore or similar XR series Falcon they are showing off? They generally buy it for a reason and it is none of our business in criticising them for doing so! Most 4wds offer safe 7 seats. Add three kids and a friend, guess what...you need an extra seat. What's the options? Buy a Tarago instead or have the 3rd row seat put in a Commodore or Falcon wagon! no thanks! God knows, they might actual take up four wheel driving and join the ranks of those here that (from my observations in this post) appear to be very ready to criticise those that don't APPEAR to get their 4wds dirty.

You know what, there are a heap of guys out there that buy Cruiser or Patrol utes, put a swag in the back and simply go to B&S balls along with those that do the same in utes. Many of these vehicles only get dirty because of the dirt roads they take to get to the balls or from the circle work they do when they get there. Should we also judge these people because they choose to wear RM Williams jeans and boots and Akubras but are only ciy cowboys/girls?

On the expense side. Have a look at what a new Coomodore or Falcon costs these days. Then they depreciate 70 % in 3 - 4 years. Maybe those buying 4wds appreciate the lower depreciation factor and, in some cases, the cheaper cost of ownership. As was also mentioned, people tow boats, caravans, trailers, whatever. Maybe they appreciate the stability and control offered by these larger constant 4WD vehicles. Maybe they want to keep their vehicles for more than 3 years.

In the end, who are we to criticise others and how they spend their money? Not everybody is the same (thank god) and not everyone wants an 'insect covered screen with more aerials than NASA control centre'. We should embrace those that choose such vehicles and encourage them to get out there and see some things. If we start to criticise them, we simply become Harold Scrubies by another name.

By the way, I bought my Patrol then my Prado because I needed room for 4 kids. I have also towed a 5.3 metre boat, caravan and CT with them and now also enjoy the outdoors freedom it offers. At one time, however, I drove a Commodore. I shudder to think of what some of you would have said about my wife or I when we first bought a 4WD and, in fact, now when my wife takes the 'dirty' Prado up to school to pick the kids up.

Stepping off soap box ever so lightly. Flak jacket on.

AnswerID: 308263

Follow Up By: Col_and_Jan - Friday, Jun 13, 2008 at 05:25

Friday, Jun 13, 2008 at 05:25
Great reply Rob.
I have a 100 series, nearly 9 years old that looks new, and often get criticized that it is a Toorak Tractor.

I use it to tow a large caravan, after having completely stuffed the motor and gearbox in a V6 Commodore trying to do the same job. In the same number of years that I have had this cruiser, I had to call the RACQ more than three times with the Commodore, and had the sedan and the caravan on the back of a tow truck twice. I will never use a "family" car to tow a heavy caravan long term again. The cruiser handles towing like a dream.

I have taken the cruiser to a 4WD park, and was amazed at its capabilities, but there is no way I am intentionally going to take it through mud a meter deep to have mud oozing into every orifice, including into the passenger compartment just for the fun of it. If I wanted to do that, I would buy some old 60 series, and drive it like a hire car. If you can afford to do that with some late model 4WD, and replace it every few years, then good on you.

So when people suggest that you shouldn't own a late model 4WD unless you are prepared to have it looking like it has just come back from the back and beyond, perhaps they are forgetting that there are other uses for the strength and reliability that these vehicles have.


FollowupID: 575582

Reply By: DIO - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 09:57

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 09:57
92.371% EGO and the remainder - 7.629% (practical) NEED.
AnswerID: 308303

Follow Up By: disco driver - Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 17:41

Saturday, Jun 07, 2008 at 17:41

Can you justify that mouthful of drivel??

Is it really of any concern of yours that I choose to drive what I do.

I chose my vehicle for my own reasons, they are TOTALLY irrelevant to your circumstances.

You chose your vehicle/s for your own reasons and that is your right and privelege.

As far as I know, your choice may have been made to massage your ego but then again you may have a"need" for your choice.

I am not stupid enough to come out with crap such as your post without a lot of back up research to prove your numbers.


FollowupID: 574213

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