not 4wd stuff but outdoors topic?

Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 15:32
ThreadID: 5891 Views:3070 Replies:9 FollowUps:6
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I do volunteer work for NPWS and find myself freezing to death on the back of a 4wd traytop scooting along at around 30kph in 0-10 degree ambients. layering is the trick to keeping warm but what are best thermal underwear?
Everwarm has lightweight and heavy while most others in Adeliade are around 190g/m2 which I have.
Have just purchased some Icebreaker (merino wool) 260g/m2 thermals - any one know how much difference to warmth does 260g/m2 make?

Patagonia (USA) has what they call expediton weight thermals which are recommended for mountaineering/snow and ice etc. Has any one had experience with this Patagonia thermals Wow! I'm cuter than Wombat
Richard
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Reply By: Member - Al (Vic) - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 15:45

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 15:45
I have had no need for thermals at all Richard, but I reckon that thermals for mountaineering would be pretty bloody warm, those merino wool ones would be pretty good I would imagine, and would also breath as well....perhaps you should contact some hiking places like Paddy Palins' see what they say....

Al

PS...Not sure if you're your're cuter than Wombat's Special K...loves the duds...happy driving, and if you can't find em...grind em..
AnswerID: 24553

Reply By: Glyn - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:16

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:16
Layers are the way to go, I agree. I did a survival training course in Norway, taught along the same lines as taught to the Norwegian army.

As part of the standard kit we all had to wear, we had on the following in order from the skin out:

Ullfrotte 200 g/m2 is a range of garments to wear next to the skin. Terry-knit soft inside in fine merino wool, reinforced with polyamide for better wear-resistance.
Legs, sleeves and body are knitted to shape conically without seams for high comfort. Ullfrotte 200 g/m2 has a unique warming ability because of its construction and material. The material keeps you dry next to the skin and warms even if it gets damp. For best results wear Ullfrotte 200 g/m2 next to the skin.

On top of that we had:

Ullfrotte 600 g/m2 is a mid-layer garment that can be worn over Ullfrotte 200 g/m2 or 400 g/m2. The jacket is terry-knit with soft inside in fine merino wool, reinforced with polyamide for better wear-resistance.

On top of this:

Polar fleece.

Last layer:

Long Gortex artic hooded jackets, which cover your arse, with ties (not elastic) around the cuffs and around the base of the jacket, to stop the win getting in.

A balaclava along with thin wool/cotton gloves and thermal mitts over the top. Teflon coated socks (to stores sores and blisters), with thicker woolen socks incorporating a padded sole.

You can buy the thermal under garments online from www.raymears.com, which is the same place I booked the course from.

The one thing the kept telling us on the course, was to remove layers before your got too warm and started to sweat, as when the sweat evaporated it cooled you down. Too stay warm do not sweat!!!. Also, sitting on a cold Ali tray will not help, Ali will conduct heat away from your body 1,500 times faster than air.

Would I do the cold trip to the Artic circle again? No, I'll take the mossies and sand flys any day.
AnswerID: 24555

Follow Up By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:42

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:42
Glyn
What exactly is a polar fleece? and do u think it would be an overkill for our bush but remember I feel the cold more than most.

Your last para re sweat will be noted as I never thought of this i.e. one could get too hot and sweat.....must remember to strip eh! Never occured to me that one could sweat under extreme cold conditions.

unfortunately I wont have time to get stuff from UK but will look at site closer when I get back...and I bet I do ...as my feet feel like breaking when I jump off the tray top.

Where you went in that gear Glyn what was the average temps you experienced. Trying to relate your experience to this: We will be on the back of a traytop for around 9-10 hrs at night traveling at approximately 25-30 kph ....mostly all night in approx 0-10 degreesWow! am I cute
Richard
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FollowupID: 16505

Follow Up By: Member - Jo (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:43

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:43
Whats described above is correct, but might be a bit overkill unless you are facing -30c.

Underwear and outer layer is the most important thing. Get yourself some underwear like this Helly Hansen. You should also get a matching pair of long johns. On theire front page you can find stores.

Then put on another jumper, depending on conditions. Just make sure its something that breaths. Wool might be to warm, I would go for something with a zipper in front to make cooling down easier.

Then a wind proof jacket, goretex is ok. A beanie and some mittens, or gloves should do. Dependig on conditions, and what you are doing, I would use either a inner wool mitten, then a windproof mitten, or just some gloves.

A pair of decent boots should do, either 1 pair of wool socks, and some room to move, but depends on boot. But NOT tennis socks!!

Main thing is to keep moving, flick your toes, make fists, walk around. You never freeze when you work, only when you sit still.

There is no bad weather, just bad clothes.

Johttp://www.pad.no/
A viking in a desert :-)
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FollowupID: 16506

Follow Up By: Member - Jo (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:50

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 16:50
Helly Hansen in Adeleide. It will keep you warm! http://www.pad.no/
A viking in a desert :-)
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FollowupID: 16507

Follow Up By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 17:04

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 17:04
Jo,

thanks will visit them tomorrowWow! am I cute
Richard
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FollowupID: 16509

Follow Up By: Chris (W.A.) - Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 06:06

Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 06:06
Just ask the SAS boys or RAR regs, they'll have the best all rounder equipment since they're amongst the best in the world....pray continue.Gibb River in July.
Chris
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FollowupID: 16532

Reply By: chopper - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 17:41

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 17:41
From Mountain designs web site

The Mountain Designs Layering Principle


At Mountain designs, "Layering" applies to the thoughtful combination of clothing layers in a clothing system for various activities in the outdoor environment. Comfort is feeling warm; comfort is having dry skin; comfort is having a combination of layers. Sometimes even thick layers designed accordingly can be integrated and not impede dynamic movement. Our entire range, from the first layer to the weatherproof layer, exploits the wicking characteristics of the thermal layer and the breathability of waterproof layers. These layers are designed to fit over one another.




Your First Layer (Underwear)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guarantees freedom of movement (Lightness)
Protects from external temperatures and retains body heat (Insulates)
Avoids becoming damp (Low Moisture-Regain Coefficient)
Has vapour-transfer ability (Wicking Power)
Possesses maximum warmth-to-weight ratio (Lightweight but Super Warm)
See second layer if you require more.


Your Second Layer (Core Warmth or Cool)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comfortably fits over First Layer (Integrates)
Allows natural, dynamic movement (Freedom)
Wicks, breathes and retains a minimum amount of water (Comfort)
Remains warm, or cool, when wet (Insulates)
Provides a barrier from the wind (optional Windproof features)
See first layer if you require less and third layers if you require more.


Your Third Layer (Weatherproof)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comfortably fits over First & Second Layer (Integrated System)
Allows natural, dynamic movement (Freedom)
Is 100% waterproof and windproof (Total Weatherproof Protection)
Allows rapid breathability of body vapour and retains a minimum amount of water (Comfort)
See second layer if you require less and fourth layer if you require more.


Your Fourth Layer (Extreme Conditions)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contains all the properties of a Third Layer garment PLUS allows for thicker (or multiple) Second and Third layers.
See the third layer if you require less layers.


Three Key Elements of Outdoor Comfort

Be weight conscious Wear lightweight, current-technology fabrics specifically designed for outdoor use.
Integrated fit Mountain Designs clothing systems have been designed to integrate and allow dynamic movement, even when wearing many layers. Always try on the full system.
Expect to be comfortable Our garments and their fabric functions are designed to appeal to your sense of comfort. You will feel comfortable if your skin is warm, or cool and dry.

site here
AnswerID: 24559

Reply By: mrdesmo - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 18:12

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 18:12
Hi,
I once was at a Ducati bike rally in Stanthorpe and won 3rd pize in a raffle...a set of themylactic underwear. Initially I was dissappointed I didn't win the helmet or free tyre, and didn't claim my prize for another year (gift vouchers). However next winter I did, and I must say these are the best things since sliced bread. Never felt warmer on a bike in winter, as you could imagine the chill factor at 100km/h + in winter and also wore them camping in winter, at the snow etc etc...highly recommended. Not too sure on the technical details, but the work and that keeps me and the missus happy!
I found this address for a shop in Adelaide...hope it helps
Damart Thermolactyl 98 Gawler Pl ADELAIDE SA 5000 (08) 8231-2340
AnswerID: 24560

Reply By: Member - Wombat (Vic) - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 18:17

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 18:17
Aren't they Patagonia thermals you've got on in the photo Wherethe?"Live today as if there may be no tomorrow"

Wombat
AnswerID: 24561

Follow Up By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 17:04

Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 17:04
Patagonia Thermals they are not ....some other cheaper brand I reckon as they were too short in the legs and still are.

Thats why I need to get some newbies lol lol.

Wow! am I cute
Richard
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FollowupID: 16542

Reply By: ThePublican - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 19:21

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 19:21
Werethehellarewe ,I had my formative years from 5 to 20 in Albury, freezing in winter [ snow in grade 3 then 5 ] boiling in summer [ the 100 dg on the old scale for days on end] ,, layering as all above say is "the go" with one tiny variation, 1st layer pantyhose [rip the crutch out for your convenience ] we used to wear them regularily when in the Army at Kapooka [Wagga Wagga] in the middle of winter ,swear it is the coldest place in Australia with the wind chill factor,, the advantages of pantyhose are ,cheap,light, no restriction of movement, if wet will dry on skin very quickly [unlike longjohns] ... ever watch a pretty young thing wearing her tiny mini in the middle of a Melbourne winters day and wonder,,THE ANSWER IS PANTYHOSE.
AnswerID: 24568

Reply By: Brad - Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 20:57

Wednesday, Jul 09, 2003 at 20:57
Good thermal underwear is the secret to staying warm.
If you are engaging in aerobic endeavours in cold weather (skiing, mountaineering etc.) than its important that your underwear can wick away your perspiration so you don't get cold (from evapouration) when you stop. Synthetics are better from this point of view - polyester is overall superior to polypropylene and much easier to launder and spin dry. Nevertheless the thermals you will find in Oz are most likely to be polypropylene (so be careful spin drying it or you will end up with a molten blob). If you aren't going to be sweating than wool of course will be fine.
Patagonia will cost a bomb to import, I don't think anyone sells it in Oz anymore. Anything from Patagonia is of course the highest quality.
Mountain Designs seems to always be staffed by some sort of young, fit, outdoor snobs. Unless you fit the mould they're not really interested.
Best value I've found is this Canadian non-profit group
http://www.mec.ca/Main/home.jsp
But again I doubt its worth the effort of importing.
Don't forget good beanie, gloves and socks !!

Regards,
Brad.
AnswerID: 24571

Reply By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 17:05

Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 17:05
Thanks for all the good info and relavent links to good sites GuysWow! am I cute
Richard
AnswerID: 24608

Reply By: jaycee - Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 19:58

Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 at 19:58
Check out www.fairydown.co.nz much closer than the UK or www.kathmandhu.co.nz
AnswerID: 24623

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