Tree-hugger ?!?!?!

Submitted: Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:20
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Not sure if I'm a tree hugger but if loving trees makes me one so be it.......I wonder who made it a bad word anyway.
What I'm wondering about is this........we produce to much carbon dioxide and trees use up carbon dioxide . Why don't we plant more trees and stop cutting trees down to help reducing our carbon problem? We went to Tasmania not long ago and it was disgusting to see how they cut those big old trees down and nobody seems to care. I never thought I'm a greeny but I think I'm becoming one slowly but surly.
Next time you go to Tassie please turn of the main roads and follow the side roads where the logging trucks come out of which have those big signs " No Entry"
They have very smartly left a strip of trees along the roads so we all think it's all good. A few hundred meters off the road it looks like after a nuclear war.......just bloody terrible.
I wonder how long it will take until there is no trees left.
Is money so important?

Reiner
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Reply By: Desertrose - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:52

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:52
I never realised how much I valued tree's until I came to Perth.
Over here when they build the MANY new housing estates they flatten the ground. Not even a blade of grass is left standing.
Perth - to me appeared like an ugly desert of rooftops.
A concrete desert.
Walking the kids to and from school that first summer was unbearable. The glare, no shade whatsoever to bring any relief.
Now we have moved up into the older "hills" area and there are tree's, and BIRDS, possums even, and heavenly pockets of shade to break the walk to and from school.
I don't know the statistics for how many new tree's we (the world) plant to make up for the ones we cut down but no doubt the damage we are doing IS significant and in some cases totally irreversable.
After all it takes time for nature to re-establish itself while the tree's grow, whereas forests are wiped out instantly - Where does the wildlife go in the meanwhile?
We complain when animals such as fruit bats infringe on our communities. Want to "get rid of them".
That always makes me mad!
Why do we think that we human beings have the right to claim all the land for ourselves?
Don't we realise that collectively all the species on the planet work in a cleverly designed harmony, and to disrupt that "balance" only brings more problems for ourselves?

When you alter the geography of the earth, as we do with things such as mining, and the daily destruction of forests doesn't it make sense then that this would have an impact on things such as weather?
It's not just about the disappearance of certain species of animals...I think in so many ways we are altering the whole balance of how the earth "works"which ultimately will be to the detriment of human kind.
Ultimately if left alone nature will reclaim itself, which is the only consolation to something like the scenario set out in that documentary about when "people" are gone.

Yes I am a "tree hugger" at heart - wouldn't call myself a greenie either, but it continues to disillusion me, how much we crap on this planet.




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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 15:12

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 15:12
dont forget the hills ecosystem bears no resemblance to the plains

mot of the trees aroundperth are planted , not local. to get an idea of what local bush looks like tere are areas around whitman park and (now fast disapearing) the airport.
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Follow Up By: Desertrose - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 16:03

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 16:03
Yeah, I know the hills "bush" is different and obviously closer to the coastline the bush changes again.
I'm sure you know what I mean though, when I say there's not even a blade of grass left standing.
It's just that with Perth so rapidly expanding - well, my first impression OF Perth, driving from North to South was that it was one huge big new estate!
It's a real sore point with me seeing all these new estates with perfectly manicured lawns and neat little garden beds with reticulation systems all in place etc.
What's wrong with natives?
I feel like if we are going to destroy "the bush" to build large housing estates that we should at LEAST leave some of what was there and then encourage birdlife etc into our gardens by planting natives in gardens and parks etc.
I'm no gardener myself so I'd much prefer a wild "bushy" native garden any day to something that needs tender loving care and loads of water to keep it going :)
Not that we have any lack of water at the moment!
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 21:55

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 21:55
"Over here when they build the MANY new housing estates they flatten the ground. Not even a blade of grass is left standing.
Perth - to me appeared like an ugly desert of rooftops."

Hi Desertrose, that's why we are up in the Hills of Perth, people think to come up here they need a cut lunch and a waterbag but we can get into Perth a lot quicker than most of those travelling on the Freeways.

Our garden has been upgraded to a native garden with local flora and some species from the Stirling Range area, We have a cat but the birds still come in and we have even seen the birds line up behind the cat for a drink of water in the summer time, (I was too slow with the camera).

At this stage I couldn't live in those "Estates" down the hill with no room even to put up a clothes line, I would be claustrophobic.

Cheers

D


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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 22:11

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 22:11
Dunworkin (WA)
couldnt afford a place in the hills, but got a place 10-15 min from the airport (important for me)
and Kalamunda is just a 10 min drive
spent many hours cruising the hills tracks and the sunday sesh at Mundaring is great.
I dont understand WA obsession with the beach when we have hills like that.
I can get to places like this without a single traffick light

cool stuff in perth hills
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 22:23

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 22:23
Hi Davoe, know what you mean, Hubby and I often go for a drive along the ocean and love it but it is always nice to get home into the hills but more often we head out in the bush because we drive a couple of ks and we are there.

Is that a photo of Lesmurdie Falls, it looks like it, if not where is it?
it is a lovely photo anyway.

Cheers

D


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Follow Up By: Desertrose - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 23:33

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 23:33
Great picture!
The hills area is truly Perth's best kept secret :)
I couldn't live in the new estates either Dunworkin.
My only gripe with the birds up here is that they stole all my darn peaches off the tree in summer!



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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 23:43

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 23:43
Yes, know what that is like, they are even taking the mandarins, we have apples, pears cherries and the birds love them, the only ones they leave alone are the lemons. We got some nets from Bunnings this year to put over the trees and that helped. Hope to beat them this year. As you would appreciate we have all kinds of birds up here, a few weeks ago there was a butcher bird came in and was feeding off of the lawn with the maggies, he must have been a pet because when I walked outside he flew up on the clothes hoist and I was able to walk up to him with some food and he actually ate out of my hand, after his fill he flew away so he was OK. I won't have a bird in a cage, I like seeing them flying around free.

Cheers

D



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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 23:49

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 23:49
yes its lesmurie falls, the link blow is also all from aroun the area.
personally i find growing fruit in perth pointless. darn fruitfly
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 01:14

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 01:14
The birds get our fruit before the fruitfly, but yes it is bad.

Lovely spot Lesmurdie Falls up here.

Cheers

D


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Reply By: mike w (WA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 14:35

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 14:35
In rebutle to your argument, many years ago when studying landmangament, there was research that showed that old trees are slower growing, thus utilising less carbon and utilising less water, thus contributing to raising water tables. Younger trees are faster growing, utilising more water and greater amounts of carbon, thus better for the environment. therefore I say clear fell the whole damn lot and plant more bluegums and pines, which as a consequence will have far greater reaching benefits for the economy aswell (tic!!);)

Im a bit of a greenie too, but I object to the long haired hippie tree huggers doing their thing. The state that they leave some of the protest camps in is diabolicle.

there is nothing quite as majestic though as a forest of old growth, something very soothing and awe inspiring about the whole thing.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 17:50

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 17:50
The argument for keeping old forests has nothing to do with Co2. You are right, young trees take up much more than old trees. The old growth forest argument is connected to the need to keep a broad gene pool. As we destroy old forests and sea reefs etc, we dramatically reduce the total life diversity. All forms of life are connected by these gene pools. The more diversity, the healthier the whole life system. A bit like the reason it isn't a good idea to keep marrying cousins. Planting huge areas with a limited range of crops is suspected to be the cause of honey bees disappearing in North America. Each year they now have to import big numbers of honey bee hives from Australia so plants get pollinated. A good earner for Australia, but also a warning. One of the dangers of the carbon trading schemes is that it gets interpreted as an excuse to plant plantations. That's fine, for Co2, but it is no substitute for diversity.
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Reply By: John R (SA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 14:59

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 14:59
I find it fascinating that this country is wrapped up in the misnomer of carbon, given that CO2 levels are at something like 4000 times the level at which it would have an effect on reflecting radiation (causing the 'greenhouse effect').

When you also consider Australia emmits something like 1.5% of the world's CO2, anything we do is akin to a fart in a storm.
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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 17:31

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 17:31
There is science for and against the greenhouse effect notion but by far the bulk of the science demonstrates that increasing levels of CO2 are problematic. Can we alone make a difference....sure we can and we just might encourage others to do their bit along the way. I believe it is encumbent on us all to think more of what each of us can do to ensure a viable future for the planet. Am I in panic mode....no and I don't think anyone should be...just do you bit and no one can ask for more.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 17:35

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 17:35
That just isn't how it works John. It's not the reflection that is the issue. Co2 levels act like a blenket that holds temperture in so it isn't radiated off at night to the same exstent. Bit like why cloudy nights are warmer thyan clear nights in the desert. And this isn't the only CO2 problem There is also an interaction between oceans and Co2 takeup which is connected to the increasing acid levels of the oceans that is just as much a problem as warming.
Re the 1.5% Australian emission level. If you lived in China or India, how would you react to wealthy countries like Australia saying, "we don't have to change, we will keep our standard of living. Sorry, you can't have the benefits of industrialization." The western countries are going to have to show they are prepared to change lifestyle if they want the emerging economies to come on board. Mind you, I think it is too late anyway and this debate and action should have happened 25 years ago. The permafrost started melting three years ago and now is releasing more Co2 than anything humans do. It is already too late.
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 00:10

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 00:10
Mfewster.... mistake is yours. The sun shines through the atomosphere.. reflects back off the earth and is held in by the greenhouse gases. So it is reflected heat. hmmmm I think you actually said that further down..

BTW Co2 is only one of.

Too late.. never too late... but don't despair, it's still only a theory.

Interesting really. By the time I'm 80 we should see if it was all a big beat up or not.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 13:59

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 13:59
No Royce, I think the mistake is yours. You are confusing reflected with radiated heat. Not the same thing. The Earth stores heat during the day, then radiates it at night. Only a small amount of heat is reflected and this occurs in the areas of snow and ice (rapidly decreasing) cover, or above some cloud conditions. I agree that C02 is only one of the gasses causing concern, but by and large the others are also products of human manufacture, except when we have volcanic activity.
All science is theory, that's what makes it science rather than the fundamentalist concept of truth. Science is simply determining patterns and extrapolating. And the patterns on climate change can no longer be ignored. As to whether it's too late. We have passed the tipping points beyond which it was still possible to change outcomes, some time ago. You might like to read James Lovelock. His research for NASA started the whole climate change awareness. The Greens hate him because he advocated going nuclear. The Nuclear lot hate him because he said nuclear was long term suicidal but should be immediately taken on for about 30 years while internationally we made a massive research attempt to make fusion power work after which we should get off nuclear. The Pollies hate him because he says it is now too late. So none of the big players wants to mention him. But it is still his modelling that everyone uses and his forecasts have so far been right on the button. Example. Years ago he predicted when permafrost would start to melt.
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:05

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:05
Mfewster... you are right and I am wrong.. or near enough to. My apologies. :-]]
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:14

Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 at 18:14
Royce, you are a gentleman. It's interesting how often on the net the response is just to ignore. I hope I have the grace to acknowledge when I get something wrong.. and I sure do.
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Reply By: Louie the fly - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 18:22

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 18:22
You don't have to be a greenie to think that way. It just shows how much you value and respect our environment. We had a guy working for us who was a high up member of the Hells Angels. He thought the same way I did about the environment - protect the trees and the animals, cut down pollution, etc. I wouldn't have ever called him a greenie. More than my life was worth.

Having said that, I don't go around hugging trees, I just caress them gently.
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Reply By: Member - Footloose - Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 21:42

Friday, Jul 11, 2008 at 21:42
Just watch out for the ants when hugging that tree.
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