55 and 75W HID

The seller of the light upgrades states pretty clearly they are illigal in Oz. (Quite possibly as they are too bright for oncoming cars. You may be able to see but they wont ;-)

"HID headlights conversions are illegal in Australia except for off-road, motorsport or display purposes. They are not ADR approved.................Use in a road vehicle is at the purchasers own risk. HIDTechnologies will not be liable/responsible for any fines or defects."
Cheers Craig.............

HID upgrades are legal if you have headlight washers. That is the requirement in the ADR's (Go figure). I think you just need to ensure that you get a colour temperature as close to standard lighting as possible. I have 50W 4300 K low beams and even they are a lot whiter than standard. But I have never been flashed by oncoming traffic and friends have told me they are not to glaring when I am coming towards them

You obviously have scant regard for oncoming traffic.

Shaker? What's that supposed to mean? I have travelled with Richard on club trips and his lights are adjusted properly and are not a problem for other road users.

I have 35w bi-xenon headlights fitted in my Patrol as well as Lightforce XGTs which have been converted (by myself) to 55w HIDs too. In addition, I have 4 Lightforce 170s mounted at the back of the dual cab, but these are standard halogen globes (at this stage).

I rarely get "flicked" by oncoming traffic for having bright lights and I have had plenty of oncoming Police cars which have shown no interest in my lights either.

I have seen far more instances of poorly adjusted halogen lights causing trouble and people who drive with high beam on (during the day too) when they shouldn't.

Please don't tar everyone with the one brush.

Roachie

I thought they were illegal.
If I am wrong, I apologise wholeheartedly, if not ... then I was just stating the obvious!

After having a long "discussion" about the legality wrt ADR's on another thread. I would like to highlight that another Poster "Bushtrek", pointed me to ADR 13 Para 6 which is the killer IMHO. Basicaly any headlight over 2000 lumens must have a headlight washer.

A normal 55W Halogen is about 1400lm. A 35W HID is about 3500lm. Unfortunatley this also makes most headlight upgrades illegal too. A 85W is about 2100lm.

So basicaly if you want brighter headlights you are illegal. HID or not. 65W is about as high as you could legally go as far as I can see.

After having had quite a few HID's I would say the key is to go with a brand that you are sure has good sharp cut off. That is the major glare problem.

Anyway it should go nicely with the illegal tyres, illegal weight of most 4wds, lift and gas bottles in the back.
;-)

Dont forget State Road Traffic Acts...ADRs are the MINIMUM standard and the states can still impose their own regulations on vehicles. Just because ADR 13 para blah blah blah is all you can find DOES NOT MEAN THAT IS THE ONLY STIPULATION!

Apart from that there is no such thing as a HID conversion kit ie you cannot add HID globes to QH reflectors.

The LEAST irresponsable way to illegally modify your lights is to ensure the 'HID Kit' is supplied with the appropriate reflectors to hopefully save the oncoming traffic from temporary blinding!

Image Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be Found

"Anyway it should go nicely with the illegal tyres, illegal weight of most 4wds, lift and gas bottles in the back.
;-)"

Not a very intelligent justification for modifying your vehicle....typical of the current generation of 'buggar you mate, I will do what I like"

Matt the photo you have in the middle is a VERY bad example of upgrades ( unless it is on high beam) , and not on the same vehicle. The bottom one is like what I was talking about with the cut off. Good cutoff is the issue I highlighted above.

Also the photo showing galre on some ( headlights) and little on the others ( Downward facing fog lights) are relavent, same issue HID 130W etc in a headlight will have more glare than foglights facing down every time.

My point was that good quality HID's correctly installed will have similar glare to other headlight upgrades and yep while illegal, they are no more, or no less legal than 130W upgrades.

Sorry you didn't get the point about the other illegal issues. People seem to focus on the illegal issues of others rather than themselves was my point. Taking a look at your profile, perhaps you should look closer to home about the legality of mods with tyres and suspension if it such a concern.

Yes my lights are adjusted correctly, blue 6000K standard halogen globes are more blinding then our 4300K HID's..why?

Human eyes are designed to adjust to day light...around 5000K and the human eye can not adjust to light over that.

If people are concerned about the legality of HID's being used on public roads I suggest you sell your 4X4's and look at catching public transport and become a polly.

GPS's mounted on the dash are illegal according to ADR's and so are mounting toggle switches in a place that the human body can come in contact with if involved in an accident.

Life is a challenge trying to avoid the law enforcers and I love every minute of it......it's good being an OUTLAW!

Reminds me of the old moonshine running days.........

NO regards to the LAW----------- Richard

Boobook...the top photo is lowbeam glare taken to highlight to the ignorant how bad these kits are. The no glare foglight is an upmodified QH (see the difference to the HID Fog) and shows the lack of glare better than words ever could.

I dont get your comment on the mods...I got the point which is lack of regard for illegal mods and peoples total disregard for other road uses that make their vehicles ticking time bombs!

You are more than welcome to accompany me to any WA inspection station to have my 'mods' haha mods hahaha....oh sorry just couldnt contain my amusement at your reference to my extreme suspension and tyre mods ahahha...oh where was I? Yes join me in putting my vehicle over the pits anytime.

My point in peoples lack or regard to others in ALL things....mods, driving attitude, camping etiquette etc etc its about ME nowdays!

Sad you missed my point.

As far as the headlight washers are concerned..... I've got that one licked. My dual cab used to be a wagon. As a wagon it had a 2nd motor on the windscreen washer bottle, used to spray water onto the back window.
Once converted to dual cab, the small hose that went to the back, was blocked off and no used.
I have resurected it and placed washers on the bullbar so that they spray onto the headlights.
I don't theink the legislation stipulates anything about the headlights having to have wipers....that would be a bit more difficult to put in place (but not impossible).

Matt, those photos are from a web site of a company in the US that sells halogen upgrades and doesnt sell HID. While the point of glare and light patterns are valid these photos are markeing material and are not real life examples. Not my upgrades anyway.

I repeat that 130W upgrades are just as illegal which goes to the point of the original post asking for pros and cons of both.

As I am sure anyone that owns a HID upgrade will tell you the middle photo is either a really reallly really bad fitment or on high beam and no where near real life. Not an example to be used to make a point in general. It is misrepresentitive whatever you think.

AHA!!! that explains it....

I was looking at those photos, and thinking this must be a "spot the deliberate mistake" competition;-))
Specifically, the caption for the bottom photo, "Correct Low Beam"....
It certainly ain't correct in any country where cars are driven on the left hand side of the road!
The "kick-up" needs to be toward the road verge, not toward the middle of the road (and on-coming traffic!)...

I agree, a mis-representation...

What? That wasnt obvious that the tester was form the US? Sorry thought anyone could pick that and didnt need to state the obvious...

How is that misrepresentation?? Sounds pretty lame to disregard the visual evidence due to the vehicle being on the RHS and not the LHS...does that change the glare?

Did I say that 130W QH when used for high or lowbeam was legitimate? What are you getting at???? Use them in your spotties or use HID spotties...your choice but was that ever in contention?

Just use the correct lights for your vehicle and dont use illegal HID UPGRADES to headlights and have consideration for other drivers?

The middle photo IS a HID conversion using the standard reflectors designed for QH globes NO MIREPRESENTATION despite how you wish to justify your stance!!!

All the best

Matt.

Matt I take it you have never had anything to do with HID upgrades or HID lights in general.

Are you sure you are not getting mixed up with cars using halogen 6000K globe and thinking they are HID's?

The blueish (6000k) 55/60 watt plus 50 H4 halogen globes will dazzle you a lot more then (4300K) 35 watt HID's even thou the HID's will put out much greater light.

Olcoolone...Im quite sure Im not getting HID and QH mixed up but thank you for your concern. Im well aware of the difference hence my post on the legalities of HID upgrades....A correct HID will not dazzle at all.....that was never in contention if you read the replies...the issue is fitting HID lamps into QH housings, this is dangerous and blinding to oncoming drivers....period.

But thank you anyway!

Matt.

Matt have to disagree with you on the fitting of HID's in to standard lights, this is how our Hilux is done.

One of our other cars that has Bi-Zenon HID's as standard dazzles people more then the ones in our Hilux, more people flash us in that and I have driven in front of the Hilux and our other car and have noticed the Hilux dazzles less.

The key to it is you can not fit HID's to standard lights with out adjusting them down, this in turn puts more usable light in front of the vehicles.

Some halogen lenses are worse then others.

I think people using HID's should be your last concern for road safety.

Olcoolone...there is nothing more to say but you are totally 100% wrong mate....sorry.

The kits you purchase have stated...FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY.

If you do some research it is all about where the photons of light are emitted and how that is then reflected forward from the rear and diffused out the lens.

You change the length of the light, or how it hits the reflector and everything is up to $hite after that. This is shown in the two second photos...why I posted them (disclaimer...they are US and show the refraction up to the right & in Aust the light would refract upto the right)

As I said I love HIDs but factory or CORRECTLY fitted ones...not these retro kits HENCE WHY THEY ARE ILLEGAL...

Do you not think blinding oncoming drivers is important?.....

I do.

All the best mate but I wont reply anymore, leave you to conduct your own research.

Matt.

Nutwood

Re the 35W verses the 50W for low / high beam, it depend on you headlight bulbs.

If you have H4 bulbs then you are right. In a normal Halogen H4 bulb thre are 2 filaments , high and low beam and they can be different wattages. But in a HID H4 thre is only one because fo space and warm up times. It is moved between the 2 filament locations with a solinoid, alternatively there is a refelector on a solinoid. This gives instant hi/lo beam.

Is some vehicles like mine there are two seperate headlights for high and low beam. In that case you can have different wattages.

Nutwood just do it and you will not regret it.

Yes there are some people who think they have to tell every one what they can and can't do.

You asked a good question, sorry for the stupidity off the others who have never used HID lights before.

HID's get a bad rap from these idiots who replace there standard lights with the blueish tinge halogen globes (6000K+)....that put out less light then the standard globes but the look so cool...NOT.

We see very few cars on the road with real HID then we are traveling.

There are 3 types of H4 HID replacements avaliable.
1) Only offer low beam.
2) Offers HID on low bean and halogen on hi beam (Narva).
3) Offers HID hi and low bean, they use a solenoid to move a reflector around the globe directing more light down low on low beam and directing more light upwards when on hi beam (these are the beast type).

Check out this web sitehttp://www.mobilehid.com/philips-review.htm

Regards Richard

So by remaining legal ... we are stupid!
It's people like you that give 4WDs a bad name.

Yeap thats right and I"m proud I give 4WD's a bad name and yes I do go out of my way to live up to the reputation that only a few of use die hards can deliver......wreck the environment, take chain saws into National Parks to collect fire wood,drive of the track, leave rubbish behind....hell some one else will clean it up, travel at 80Kph in a 60 zone and abuse any one who gets in my way or just run them of the road, take up 2 car parks (sometimes three) at shopping centers or park in the disabled zone...yeap all the little things I enjoy!

MATE didn't say anything about people being stupid, stupid and stupidity means two different things.

STUPID
1) Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2) Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
3) Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
4) Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
5) Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

STUPIDITY
1) The state, quality, or fact of being stupid.
2) A stupid act, notion, speech, etc.

If you want to use the word stupid thats your call.

Is your 4wd legal in every respect?

QUOTE: MATE didn't say anything about people being stupid, stupid and stupidity means two different things.

>>> ....... sorry for the stupidity off the others who have never used HID lights before <<<<

Excuse me!

Thats OK we all make mistakes.

Ah-ha, thanks Boobook. The double headlight arrangement didn't occur to me.
I can see that more research is needed before I tackle my headlights. My original enquiry was regarding my spotlights. Even with halogen globes these will pick up signs at over 1 km. I seldom leave them on in the face of oncoming traffic!
In all honesty I don't have a lighting problem however HID seems the way of the future so I'm interested to try. I see little point in spending money on a marginal improvement, hence my query on the higher wattage.
I have compared my lights with someone elses HID and whilst I believe their light was whiter, I wasn't convinced it was brighter. Trouble is the test isn't really valid because it was a different vehicle with different lights. It was indicative though.
This thread has made me think that I should be investigating the HID headlight conversions for my Cherokee that doesn't have any extra lights. I'm nervous to put any higher wattage in because modern plastic lights don't like the heat but it's the family car and better lights would be an advantage.

Honestly I first looked into this about 4 years ago. I upgraded the loom, bought 50%plus, and even higher wattage bulbs - all these improvements are marginal. Then I bit the bullet and bought a pair of hi / lo HID's for my pajero at the time. It was H4. After a week or so you will say "why didn't I do this earlier" After about 6 months I also upgraded my IPF driving lights because next to the headlights they added almost no light. I was really happy with them till I upgraded the Headlights. BANG wow. Daylight at night. Good clear visibility in front and to the sides of the road. Much less eye strain on long drives.

Despite the issues raised here by some who have probably never used them, my real life experience is:-

a)After an initial period of about 2 weeks of adjusting I have *never* been Flashed when on low beam in 4 years. So It mustn't be anoying other drivers too much.
b)If you do some night driving, then these are one of the best SAFETY options you can put on your 4WD. ( others can beg to differ). The difference is phenominal.
c)I promise you will never own a vehicle without HID again, the difference is simply amaizing.
d)You raised a good point, most new 4wd's use polycarbonite headlight lenses which discoulour and melt with more than 65W ( go look at a Narva 85W bulb box's warning.)

Last thing is that I reccomend 4300K, 6000K looks bluer and nicer but 4300K is about 10% brighter and stands out less to oncoming traffic including the moral police ;-)

My advice is just do it as Olcoolone says.

This is the disclaimer on Olcoolone's website

http://www.mobilehid.com/philips-review.htm


Disclaimer: All HID conversion kits, no matter the source, are not DOT approved if installed outside of the factory. Moreover, in the U.S, this is not street legal for use on public roads. As a result, we officially endorse the kit for exhibition and off-road use and will only sell the kit to be used for these purposes. We are not responsible for buyers who violate the terms of sale. They will assume all responsibilities for any unauthorized or unintended use other than exhibition or off-road use.

They are illegal in the US so I guess they are ok here?

Stay safe!

Matt.

Matt; and your point is...?

R u serious? Does it need explaining? ...Nah dont worry forget it!

All the best

Matt.

Matt I think your quoting of US web sites has you confused.

DOT does not aply in Australia, it is a US standard relating to US standards on LHD vehicles. In fact most european lighting even if it is LHD does not comply with DOT regs. US laws don't apply in Australia so whats the point?

You may as well quote Indian laws, they are just as relavent. Probably more.

I think your position is pretty clear. That is YOUR position. Good for you. Bravo.

Also did you know it is not legal to have tyres that are 50mm larger than the OEM?

http://www.xenonoz.com.au/

Here is an Aussie disclaimer......

The Xenon System may not be legal for road use even on low beam in your State or Territory. The Xenon System is not ADR compliant and is intended for competition or off-road show purposes only. It is your responsibility to ensure that the use of the Xenon System and the Information is in accordance with the laws of your relevant jurisdiction.


My tyres are legal in WA but nice try... I also dont recall anyone being blinded by an illegal tyre size of 50mm.

But I would also be happy if the ADRs stated a maximum tyre size of 31 inches...would save alot of our tracks from people just going bigger and bigger and bigger.

Yes I dont condone safety...dont you?

The lengths people will go to justify an illegal mod....there is a reason its illegal but I guess some are above the law?

oops do condone safety... sorry

Matt, you seem to have wasted a lot of time on this thread rabbiting on about the legality of HID conversions. I posted the original query in attempt to learn from others experiences with HID in their spotlights. Along the way I've learnt a bit about headlight conversions as well but the original enquiry was about spotlights.
I have two spotlights bolted to a nice big aluminium roobar, backed up by a nice big 4" steel angle. Even though I've gone through the inspection process in three states, including WA, I have no doubt that technically my roobar is illegal, as are my spotlights, tyres etc, etc. I have been told (by WA police actually) that any modification that alters a vehicle away from manufacturers specifications is technically illegal. Of course every re-seller is going put an exclusion in, unless they want to be sued!
I would jump back a little in the thread and say that, yes, being legal is stupid; if it over rides common sense. Driving down a gravel road is legal at 110, but stupid.
Apply a little common sense and think about what difference does it make if I have 130W halogen or 50W HID in my spotlights. There's only a few days a year I drive up the wrong side of the road with my spotlights on, just to help the 4WD reputation. Back in the seventies we used to run over small children but they're getting quicker and I'm getting slower. Besides have you ever tried to untangle a bicycle from a roobar. The training wheels always jam up somewhere.
By the way, the greater the rolling diameter of a tyre, the longer the footprint and the less the damage....

Wow and you say I rabbit on...I never mentioned spotlights!

The responses I posted were about incorrect information about HEADLIGHTS.

They affect me greatly the same as poorly adjusted, incorreclty wired, incorrect wattage headlights blind oncoming traffic and is tiring and dangerous (even moreso since I only have vision in one eye...you appriciate vision more when you lose 50% and inconsiderate tossers effect you more).

Spotlights do not fall into the same catagory as they should not be on when someone approaches you and as such are covered in different ADRs.

Again if you believe safety is rabbitting on then...Im guilty but do me a favour and read the responses before you reply. My replies were in response to the HEADLIGHT statements.

All the best with your SPOTLIGHT conversion I hope it meets your expectations and have many years of happy motoring.

Matt.

Hah, I can rabbit with the best of them, been doing it for years! I can therefore tell you with authority, you were rabbiting about legality, not safety, or dazzling oncoming drivers. Different subjects.

OMG this isnt rocket science...

why do you think they create laws about lights etc????????

.....incorrect ones (no matter how you like to justify your purchase) can dazzle and blind oncoming drivers..... safety issues and hence

Thats legality!! Duh?

Ru serious? I gave you more credit but now Im not so sure!

Cya

Why do they create laws...? Very good question. In general to try to create a prescriptive solution to a perceived problem.
Can illegal lights dazzle? Certainly.
Can legal lights dazzle? Just as certainly.
It's not the legality or lack of it that dazzles, it's where the light is focused.
I have no doubt that there are lighting systems out there, that are not approved, that are terrible. I also have no doubt that there are other lighting systems out there, again not approved, that are fine.
Refer back to comments on common sense. That's what forums like this exist for, so that people can compare notes and avoid the dodgy stuff.
Prattling on about what's approved and what isn't is simply wasting space. I'd much rather hear from people who've been there, done that and can say what works and what doesn't.
You insult your fellows if you think they drive around dazzling oncoming traffic with their dodgy upgrades. Other drivers would soon make them aware if they were a problem.
If this was a thread on what's legal and what's not, your view point would be valid but this was a thread on what works and what doesn't.
Legal doesn't equal safe. Safe doesn't equal legal.

What utter dribble to justify a stance.

Now I ask you Matt, is that kind?
I've responded moderately politely to you. The exception being reference to your rabbiting but as the original poster of a thread that has been constantly pulled off topic by your rabbiting, I feel I have the right to extend criticism.
I'm sorry, but your debating technique doesn't measure up. You quote no personal experience or examples but instead rely on what you can glean on the web. You criticise well meaning people who post because their conversions are "illegal". Actually "not approved", there's a difference, trust me! Anyway, when challenged on this stance, you scuttle back behind the "safety" excuse.
I'm more than happy to hear from anyone with information on safety issues with HID conversions. Real information, not recycled stuff from some American website. This has been an informative thread for me and I'm grateful to those who have assisted. Can you point to one positive contribution you have made?

Nutwood...Im sorry I have inflamed your ego somehow...I believed this forum was for sharing information and not debate for debates sake.

Im sorry you have spent more time concentrating on how your could word your witty (wittless) reply and not focussed on the information I provided. This not only highlighted the dangers and provided photographic evidence as to why the HID HEADLIGHTS are 'not approved' and therefore illegal on Australian roads.

I am sorry that you believe that the dangers of ANY illegal lighting arrangement is not worth presenting on a driving forum and to do so is rabbitting on.

Im sorry that you believe that laws are only created to provide a prescriptive solution to a perceived problem. This bothers me greatly yet fascinates me at the same time. Here was I beleiving in the law makers to make binding decisions on my behalf, whether I believe in them or not, to be the best for the majority. To keep my family, my friends and myself as safe as possible from people with less moral fortitude than yourself.

Nutwood I believe your forked tongue is being wasted...we need someone like you to standup and wright what is wrong in this country!
We need you to run for government and implement this revolution you preach. We can abolish all laws and just rely on what works and what doesnt according to you.

Lets let all decisions for all people not be guided by laws let the people choose their paths based purely on their own moral fibre. I know this can work too...people will beleive and they will follow your lead and not do wrong unto others.

HE YE HE YE LORD NUTWOOD HAS SPOKEN AND FROM THIS DAY, ALL LAWS ARE GONE AND WE WILL WORK ON what works and what doesnt.........

Again Im sorry mate...but I see nothing good from your response but to try to promote yourself and be the rightous do-gooder stepping into a melle not to quell it .....but to seek glory in being seen to do so despite it being long over.

Again I wish you the best in your SPOTLIGHT conversion but I tire from your dribble and wont be draw any further into your egotistical ravings.

Goodbye.

Matt the photos you lifted from a US web site that does not sell HID's does not prove anything. It is very unlikley that the photo represented as a HID conversion is low beam if it is then it is not installed correctly. The light pattern is the same as a high beam. To represent this as an example of typical HID low beam is wrong. If this is where you get your opinion of what a HID conversion is like then you should widen your knowledge. The photos are not what are represented or are doctered.

You have made your point 100000000000 times, why don't you let the original poster get the info he is after rather than forcing your answers to questions no one asked?

Sheeeez

Thanks Matt. It's nice to be appreciated.

There's a point John. I hadn't given any thought to the delay. If you've got a bit of oncoming traffic combined with a few bends you can be on and off high beam quite a lot. You've not found this to be an issue? I see you say immediate. Do mean really immediate, like a halogen?
I've had situations on dark nights and unfamiliar roads where I'm very grateful to wait till the oncoming cars gone and then straight back onto high to see what lies ahead. Five seconds later you've got to dip again but you've had that snapshot. I'd find a delay annoying.
Also, what globes did you have in your 4000's before the upgrade?

After startup 15sec on to full, on off for a min or 2 is same as halogen
immediate.
obviously as it cools , its 15secs again.
I don`t have issue with this usage
I had 100w halogens before-they don`t compare,fullstop..
As for chinese.. I find them absolute top quality parts.
hope this helps

Thanks John. Most helpful.

cost was 110.00 delivered
HID XENON complete kit H1 6000k 50/55w

Do you recall where from John? I had a quick look on e.bay but only saw 35 W. It was only a quick look though, perhaps I missed them.

hiking1978

I've had my Xenonoz headlight replacements for about 4 years and they don't seem to have dulled at all. These were bloody expensive by today's standards ($1,650- the pair), but they have stood the test of time.
The 55w 6000k units in the XGTs haven't been in long enough yet to form an opinion.....and these were only about $250 for the kit too (so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't last the distance I s'pose).
Roachie

Like Roachie, I had a set for about 3 1/2 years and didn't notice any difference. They still impressed me after that time and if they did lose any brightness it wasn't noticable. They were 35w 6000k. My new ones are only about 6 months old.

Many thanks for that. I started this thread with a view to a spotlight upgrade. My concern with upgrading my headlights was that it would breach my basic principle of keeping the important parts of my vehicle as low tech as possible. I've occasionally had some water crossings that have ended up a bit deeper than planned and when the bonnet goes under it's nice to think there's nothing too high tech in there!So far she's always pulled out the other side but one day...! Spotlights are expendable but headlights are necessary.
I'm now giving serious thoughts to the family car (Grand Cherokee) as a recipient of a headlight upgrade. It would be a neater cure than adding driving lights. The fact it might even be illegal is a bonus!