75 series Headlight Globes

Submitted: Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 21:56
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Hi i wanna take the HID globes out of my car and put in some normal H4 globes, maybe some Narva +30s or something. What i wanted to know is without upgrading the wiring what is the highest wattage i should go to, as the sealed beams i took out were only 55/70w which is bleep weak. Though each headlight has a 10 amp fuse so my calculations say that i should be able to run 90w low beam and 100w high beam. Or would this be too close to the fuses maximum? Pretty sure 100w draws 8.33 amps and 90 watt draws 7.5amps. Mates run these globes in there Falcons and Commodores and even Pulsars so surely i can in my big tough real mans car, PLEASE someone say they have.

By the way i have Hella headlight inserts that why i now can run H4 globes. Only reason i ask about the 90/100w is because i have a pair just laying around so wanna use them as the HID set up is way too bright. Good for me but not other drivers.
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Reply By: KennyBWilson - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 22:20

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 22:20
The 55w will last 10 times longer than the 80/90w globes, you can get one of those pihrana lighting looms which will give you max power at the globes
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Follow Up By: Kroozer - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 23:00

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 23:00
Yeah sounds good mate, just done a bit of googling and reckon i will just look for some +30s or equivalent. Dont really want to be changing globes all the time, just want some decent light to get around town with. I am pretty sure though that the local auto shop only has the Narva Arctic whites in H4 though. Are they worth it does anyone know?
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Follow Up By: KennyBWilson - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:04

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:04
You could always use the higher wattage globes until one blows and then buy a new set, I prefer phillip brand over the narva brand
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Reply By: autosparky - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 22:58

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 22:58
to use higher wattage globes in (max available so far 100/140w) you will have to fit realys to high and low beams or your headlight switch will fry. ther are some 60+ globes out there and are reasonably reliable.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:34

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:34
Isn't there positive power to the globe all the time and the globes are switched negatively.

How will it fry the head light switch?

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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 13:55

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 13:55
Hows it going ,

It doesnt matter if the switch is on the negative side of the load in the circuit , current is constant, if the higher rated globes draw more current than the switch can handle it will cook.

You would think that the original fitment fuses would be rated to stop this though.

On the Patrol the positive is switched with no relays just straight through , is this normal car fitment ?

Glenn.
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Follow Up By: Kroozer - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 14:32

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 14:32
Olcoolone are you saying that the lights on 75 series are negative switched? I asked the question about a week ago and everyone believed that they were positive switched. As i will be fitting driving lights i wanna know before i start so i know which way to wire them up.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 18:09

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 18:09
Toyota's switch the negative unlike Nissan who switches positive.

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Reply By: jenmal - Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 23:34

Monday, Jul 21, 2008 at 23:34
glass area of the head light is a factor to think about. the higher the wattage = more heat = blown bulbs
Also dip switch contacts melt
try the Arctic white 30%. more light with out loading up cabling, contacts & plugs

fitting high wattage bulbs will eventually melt things and cause voltage drop to the bulbs, unless relays and wiring is fitted

try fitting extra fog lights behind the grill that come on with the headlights on both hi & low. this will help light up the area just in front of you without blinding on coming cars and helps your eyes when dipping down to low beam
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:18

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:18
QUOTE: ....... try fitting extra fog lights behind the grill that come on with the headlights on both hi & low. this will help light up the area just in front of you without blinding on coming cars and helps your eyes when dipping down to low beam


...And render you liable for a $140.00 fine.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:44

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:44
Heat doesn't have much to do with blowing globes, higher wattage globes have a tighter wound filament and the filament wire is thinner.

The most common cause of failure of globes is he filament wire breaks due to vibration and the second is incorrect voltage being applied to the globes causing gases in the globe to not burn at the correct temp leaving deposits on the filament.

This is why high powered globes fail sooner then standard globes.

You can buy heavy duty globes that have a filament support to stop this but they only come in standard wattage.
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 17:54

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 17:54
Olcoolone ,

The gas in an incadescent light doesnt burn , actually you said it yourself , the filament is thinner and dies quicker

wikipedia says this

Incandescent light bulbs consist of a glass enclosure (the envelope, or bulb) which is filled with an inert gas to reduce evaporation of the filament. Inside the bulb is a filament of tungsten wire, through which an electric current is passed. The current heats the filament to an extremely high temperature (typically 2000 K to 3300 K depending on the filament type, shape, size, and amount of current passed through). The heated filament emits light that approximates a continuous spectrum. The useful part of the emitted energy is visible light, but most energy is given off in the near-infrared wavelengths.

Glenn.

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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 18:52

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 18:52
Standard non halogen globes yes but halogen globes can have a mix of different gases to intensify the temp that the filament burns at, in these globes if the temp is not correct due to a lower or higher voltage being applied the filament will burn either to cold or to hot shortening the globes life.

+30, 50 and 80 globes have different combination of gas mixtures to generate more heat in the filament making it burn brighter, this is why +30, 50 and 80 globes use the same amount of current as a standard globe and the are not rated in watts but a percentage over standard globes whereby 55/60watts being standard (55/60+30, 55/60+50 and 55/60+80 ratings).

There is a limitation to how much heat versus output can be generated, if they made a 100watt +80 you will find it may generate to much heat for the globe design as the filament is already very thin.

If they made 100 watt globes bigger in dimension so the could use a thicker filament wire then you would not have a problem with reliability.

Much like H4 IPF Fat Boy globes, the glass section is much larger then other H4 globes so they can run a thicker filament wire for the higher temp they run at.



wikipedia says this

Principle of operation

The function of the halogen is to set up a reversible chemical reaction with the tungsten evaporating from the filament. In ordinary incandescent lamps, this tungsten is mostly deposited on the bulb. The halogen cycle keeps the bulb clean and the light output remains almost constant throughout life. At moderate temperatures the halogen reacts with the evaporating tungsten, the halide formed being moved around in the inert gas filling. At some time it will reach higher temperature regions, where it dissociates, releasing tungsten and freeing the halogen to repeat the process. In order for the reaction to operate, the overall bulb temperature must be higher than in conventional incandescent lamps. The bulb must be made of fused silica (quartz) or a high melting point glass (such as aluminosilicate). Quartz being very strong, the gas pressure can be higher, which reduces the rate of evaporation of the filament, permitting it to run a higher temperature (and so efficacy) for the same average life. The tungsten released in hotter regions does not generally redeposit where it came from, so the hotter parts of the filament eventually thin out and fail.

Regeneration of the filament is also possible with fluorine, but its chemical activity is so great that other parts of the lamp are attacked. .[1][1] [2]

The first commercial lamps used elemental iodine, were called Quartz Iodine Lamps,and were launched by GE in 1959. [3] [4] Quite soon bromine was found to have advantages, but was not used in elemental form. Certain hydrocarbon bromine compounds gave good results. [5] [6]. The first lamps used only tungsten for filament supports, but in some designs it has been possible to use molybdenum - an example being the molybdenum shield in the H4 twin filament headlight for the European Asymmetric Passing Beam.

High temperature filaments emit some energy in the UV region. Small amounts of other elements can be mixed into the quartz, so that the doped quartz (or selective optical coating) blocks harmful UV radiation. Hard glass blocks UV and has been used extensively for the bulbs of car headlights. [7] Alternatively, the halogen lamp can be mounted inside an outer bulb, similar to an ordinary incandescent lamp, which also reduces the risks from the high bulb temperature. Undoped quartz halogen lamps are used in some scientific, medical and dental instruments as a UV-B source.

For a fixed wattage and life, the efficacy of all incandescent lamps is greatest at a particular design voltage. Halogen lamps made for 12 to 24 Volt operation have good light outputs, and the very compact filaments are particularly beneficial for optical control (see picture). The range of MR16 (50 mm diameter) reflector lamps of 20W to 50W were originally conceived for the projection of 8 mm film, but are now widely used for display lighting and in the home. More recently, wider beam versions are available designed for direct use on supply voltages of 120 or 230V.


Effect of Voltage on Performance

Tungsten halogen lamps behave in a similar manner to other incandescent lamps when run on a different voltage. However the light output is reported as proportional to voltage to the power of 3, and the efficacy proportional to the power of 1.3 [8] The normal relationship regarding life is that it is proportional to voltage to the -14. For example, a bulb operated at 5% higher than its design voltage would produce about 15% more light, and the efficacy would be about 6.5% higher, but would be expected to have only half the rated life.

Halogen lamps are manufactured with enough halogen to match the rate of tungsten evaporation at their design voltage. Increasing the applied voltage increases the rate of evaporation, so at some point there may be insufficient halogen and the lamp goes black. Over-voltage operation is not generally recommended. With a reduced voltage the evaporation is lower and there may be too much halogen, which can lead to abnormal failure. At much lower voltages, the bulb temperature may be too low to support the halogen cycle, but by this time the evaporation rate is too low for the bulb to blacken significantly. There are many situations where halogen lamps are dimmed successfully. However, lamp life may not be extended as much as predicted. The life span on dimming depends on lamp construction, the halogen additive used and whether dimming is normally expected for this type.









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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 23, 2008 at 08:19

Wednesday, Jul 23, 2008 at 08:19
Ok thats the end of the lesson....... for me LOL
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Reply By: nutwood - Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 21:15

Tuesday, Jul 22, 2008 at 21:15
As someone contemplating upgrading to HID, may I ask why you're pulling them out?
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Follow Up By: Kroozer - Friday, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:07

Friday, Jul 25, 2008 at 01:07
There too bright for on coming traffic. Lights are facing down very low, as far as i want to go without it becoming pointless having HIDs and evry car flashes me to dip my lights. It is such a wicked light though dont get me wrong, i really love it. Nothing compares to HID light. But as my Tohjo is a little higher then s=standard it just shines straight into other drivers. kit only cost me around $170 so wasnt such a waste, just wish i had of gotten the spotlight kit instead. Got mine off Ebay, seller called 95soarer i think, was recommended by a fellow forumite on here. Really are a good kit and simple to fit.
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Follow Up By: nutwood - Friday, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:18

Friday, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:18
Many thanks for that. There's been discussion on another thread I started about the dazzling problem. Unfortunately it got bogged down in what's legal so I didn't really end up with a clear idea.
Do you think your HID's are giving the correct low beam pattern when you shine them up against a wall? I run 90 watt low beams in a J20 which'd be as high as your Tojo and I have no problems dazzling others. I'm wondering whether it's extraneous light that's not properly focussed that's causing the issue?
With regard to your halogen conversion I would have to disagree with others above, regarding the life span of the higher wattage globes. I get extremely long life out of my 130/90 globes. I'm talking in terms of years. I would have only replaced a couple of globes since 1995 when I installed them.
It is my theory that the killer of globes is low voltage. I run all my lights, through relays, from a feed connected directly to the alternator output. I have two circuit breakers, one feeding low beam and spotlights and the other feeding high beam. this means if one circuit trips, you still have lights. I also have a earth strap connecting the engine to the headlight earth links and to the roo bar.
I believe the other killer of globes is heat. If you do a lot of slow traffic work on 90 watt low beams, you will find the lights get very hot. I drive a lot at night, but mainly at speed which cools them down. I'm assuming that you don't have plastic reflectors or lenses. If you do, you're doomed to remain pretty much standard!
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