No Panacea for fuel prices, but let's help ourselves......

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 20:42
ThreadID: 60675 Views:3999 Replies:7 FollowUps:8
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We can cut and dice the fuel price issue from here to eternity, and like many of the other debates in this forum there will never be a consensus of opinion. Perhaps we should focus on what we can do to influence a better outcome for ourselves and four-wheel drive tourism.

I have a genuine concern for the future of four-wheel driving as a recreational pastime. You only need to read the forum to see that it is already affecting the travel plans of many. The cost isn’t only counted in the price of fuel, but also the more rapid depreciation of our vehicles. Unfortunately these are things that we will have little, if any control over.

A recent survey conducted by the NRMA showed that from 1,300 respondents

7% cancelled their holidays,
93% said they would still go on holidays but 61% said they would go shorter distances,
55 tourist destinations showed a 74% drop in revenue, and
52% said the long-term future of their business would be jeopardised (as a consequence of rising fuel prices)

However there are things we can do such as the promotion of alternative fuel sources, LPG for example. A trawl of the forum highlights many are converting or considering conversion of vehicles to include this fuel. The problem is that in many places in Australia, especially more remote locations this fuel is not available. In time the cost of traveling to remote locations will lead to a (severe) downturn in visitor numbers. In turn, this will lead to a reduction in the services we have been accustomed to.

We should all become advocates for getting outlets in more remote locations to provide LPG. This cheaper fuel source may encourage the continuation of travel to destinations that are more remote by those that are now looking for alternative holidays to driving.

This isn’t a panacea for the high fuel prices, but at least it is something that may assist many whom are finding it more difficult to continue travelling, and it beats whining about the price of fuel……..
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Reply By: Member - Footloose - Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:00

Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:00
It's a solution that might work for many but...

I can't see LPG being a viable alternative to diesel for long distance remote area travel. The tank takes up a LOT of space for starters. etc.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but my experience has been that if we get onto something good, the Govt re thinks it's tax regime.
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Reply By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:03

Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:03
Landy
I can see a positive in that idea, but the problem as I see it is the cost of transportation and the cost of storage in remote locations being a deterrent to the idea becoming reality.

This cost would take an operator a long time to recoup due in no small part to the lack of customers that would buy the gas, kinda like the chicken & the egg eh!!.

Handling of high pressure gas is much more expensive than non pressurised Diesel or Petrol, plus the shipping in of pressure vessles to store the gas would be a huge expence for little return.

Cheers Colin.
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Reply By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:18

Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:18
Landy, its a concern alright, but remote area mechanics are flat out keepng up with nissan and toyo changes, let alone converted machines on gas!!, let alone a strange landrover..lol...lol.


Cheers Axle
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:33

Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 21:33
Touch wood Axle......haven't had to call on a remote area mechanic yet!
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 22:33

Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 at 22:33
Mate its just hard to go past that landrover reliabiliy!!!.




Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:53

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:53
Oohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Axle

I almost choked on my early morning coffee.........ROTFLMAO



Cheers
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:31

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:31
Hi Axle

Most vehicles have their problems and as long as you understand what they are and address them reliability should rarely be a problem. Certainly that has been my experience…..

Good luck out there…
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Reply By: Willem - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 08:17

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 08:17
Landy

The way I see it.

At the moment you will get reports of downturn in some sections of the tourism industry. You may also get a correction in the Caravan and Camper Trailer Industry(this is probably necessary as the industry seems to be out of control) and maybe also in the Vehicle Manufacturing Industry. It may be a bit like the Stock Exchange, having a temporary correction.

This hiccup might sort out the wheat from the chaff in various industries so that a better and more modern approach can be sought. In other words, there is an expectation that the fuel, vehicle manufacturing and tourism industries ,can update their practices and become sensitive to what the travelling public needs and not what the industries think we need.

LPG in remote areas has been covered above and at this point of time it probably is not viable.

Four wheel driving as a recreation has been going since the late 1970's in Australia. The associated industries to this phenomenon have grown tremendously since that time.

The more people there are on the road the more restrictions to travel will be forthcoming such as authorities insisting on demarcating and regulating stopovers and access to various points of interest.

Maybe then, this financial hiccup, we as travellers are experiencing, is a necessary evil to kerb the relentless expansion of the various iundustries and bring them to heel. Sure, some, if not all of us, are going to be hurt by it.

We will all have to adjust to what our needs and income can accommodate. I for one, as a pensioner, have to carefully budget for any trip I plan. I am certainly not going to give up on future adventures though. Maybe I will just need to space them in time.


Cheers
AnswerID: 320206

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:20

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:20
All good points Willem, I think you are right about the caravan and camper trailer business; out of control and overpriced.

The cost of providing LPG as a fuel source in remote areas will limit availability, but if the price differential continues (a big if mind you) then I think that will need to change.

When I rebuilt the Landy I actually considered LPG/Diesel combination, but the issue was not so much price, but availability in remote areas..

After reading many posts in recent times regarding fuel, it is clear that we will see a significant downturn, especially from the "Grey Nomads", not those that have travelled throughout their lives, but those looking to do the 'big trip' in retirement. These are the group that will have an affect on the 4WD tag-along industry.

All food for thought I guess....

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Reply By: Member - Rotord - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:48

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:48
Hello AllCheap fuel is easy ( for most ) .Southwest Airlines in the USA buys its fuel on a long term forward contract at $59 a barrel , other airlines pay market rate . Southwest bet that fuel would rise in price so so to hedge against rises they paid a premium to get a 5 year set price . As I have previously proposed in this forum , most 4WD drivers can hedge against price rises and have free or cheap fuel . Not by buying on a long term fixed price contract but by investing in oil stocks ( that is by buying part of an oil well ) . You can even have the investment money given to you so long as you drive a Landrover . It works like this : instead of buying a Toyota or Nissan you buy a used Landrover for , say , $30,000 less . You invest $30,000 in a number of oil companies or in managed trusts in the oil and energy sectors . The dividends of the oil majors are currently about 15% or better so that would pay for your fuel . If the price of fuel goes up , the value of your investment and you dividends also go up so you are not effected . At the end of your driving life you sell your investment and get your money back . All this is relatively simple , your accountant or investment adviser would spell out the details such as how to select the investments and how to draw on them with the minimum of tax . The best part of course is that you get to drive the best 4WD in the world .

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Follow Up By: Alan H - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:15

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:15
"instead of buying a Toyota or Nissan you buy a used Landrover for , say , $30,000 less".

Hi Rotoford.
Please tell me where these LR vehicles are at these heavily discounted prices as I'm after buying another Defender and can't find a "cheap" one anywhere!
Methinks this is something you have no real knowledge of but personally would like to be true so you can buy one.
Cheers.
Alan.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rotord - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 19:30

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 19:30
Hello Alan H

I bought my 1993 Series 1 Disco in 2001 for $21,000 . It had 130,000km on it , and had been driven around Perth by a lady lawyer . I am still driving it and it suits me fine . To restate my original premise , a person who is willing to spend ' X ' dollars on a new or near new Toyota or Nissan is able to spend $30,000 less for an older used 4WD . If he chooses to buy a Disco , he will have the advantage of the very much greater fall in value of these vehicles and thus get a relatively new vehicle . You are right in that I have no experience in buying Fenders . However , in the context of the discussion , I have purchased a cheap Disco and I have invested the savings in oil and I do get my fuel free and future price rises will not effect me adversely .
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:34

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:34
Landy,

According to John Maynard Keynes demand calls forth supply.

Hence as more convert LPG, the supply of the fuel will increase accordingly. This should then lead to fuel suppliers in remote areas finding that selling LPG becomes a financially viable (profitable) venture.

I'm not sure that we will ever see LPG drops on the CSR, but most everywhere esle will have it in the reasonably near future IMHO.

Jim.

AnswerID: 320223

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:07

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:07
Hi Jim

And that is my thinking, but yes, not likley to see it on the CSR..


Cheers....
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:08

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:08
G'day Landy, nice thought provoking post. I think the lpg thing
has some problems, most of which have been dealt with. Why
arent Govts spending on R & D on lpg or Natural gas power plants?
I suppose the answer is that they dont see any short term danger
of a real oil shortage, only price fluctuations, & by world standards our fuel is still very cheap. I also suspect the oil industry still retains
the power to thwart the development of alternative power plants.
I share your concern re 4WDriving as a recreational pastime, along
with motoring holidays in general. It appears that not only the traveller but also the suppliers of tourist accom. tours etc will be
affected. The Caravan & C/t industry has reaped a harvest in
recent years with costs skyrocketing, particularly with $25k plus
C/ts. I find it interesting that many of these now appear in the
used sales arena. My only answer is to not overcapitalise, & slow
down....my 4WD & C/t cost me less than $20k combined but are
quite capable of any trip I will make. I run cheap used cars as daily
drivers & only use the 4WD for holidays. Not everyones taste I
know, but I have no plans to curtail our travelling yet, even with
the usual budget constraints. I find I have little sympathy for those that spend $100k plus on a holiday rig & complain about
fuel costs....but then I am a miserable old fart :)))......oldbaz.
AnswerID: 320228

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