One for the computer geeks!

Submitted: Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:36
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I'm trying to load Mapsource onto a laptop with Vista Premium preloaded into it and struggling to get it to fully load up. Any thoughts?
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Reply By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:34

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:34
I have not got any experience with Mapsource on Vista, but general consensus that XP is far better bet. Faster, more stable, less underwater stones. I make my living by stuffing computers and for my own needs I am still using W2K – IMHO even better then XP.

Cheers
Serg
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T NT - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:38

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:38
Serg
It amazes me how some can't let go of of the old crapp, I myself are old crapp but have moved on to Vista and love it ...lol.

.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:56

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:56
Doug,

For some it is fun and for some “cutting edge technology”. For me it is no fun – it is matter to do my work quickly and efficiently. I cannot afford downtimes and endless searching for patches – I need it perform first time and every time. I believe that best graphical OS from Microsoft was NT4.0. Rock stable. For this stability one need to pay by inconvenience – each and every time when even screen resolution get changed one need to reboot computer. Thus 2000 in my view give me reasonable compromise.
It is not because I am “scared” XP or Vista – in fact I support very few W2K – majority are XP and plenty of Vista. Because I support them and have experience with various different installation and issues I have form very strong professional opinion – Vista is rubbish and need to be avoided at all costs.
YMMV of course.

Cheers
Serg.
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Follow Up By: Member - Dick (Int) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:41

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:41
The Sony laptops sold in Indonesia all come with Vista installed and a CD to remove it and install XP.

Vista is not widely accepted by business users in S.E. Asia and most of the shops selling laptops to business users are having to install XP for the buyer.

For general business use, W2K or XP present a far better option in my opinion. (Sorry Doug)



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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (SA) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:11

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:11
Hi
From our sales point of view, most customers do not want Vista for that very reason. One point about Vista, if it is so great, why are they giving it the flick in 2010 and a new system taking its place. Because of a world wide back lash, many computer companies are now giving the option of buying a brand new out of the box XP only operating system, or with Vista Business, the XP discs so you can down grade to XP. Microsoft are also running support for XP until next year.

Cheers

Stephen
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T NT - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:29

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:29
Dick
No need for apologies mate , simple thing is I guess if your happy with a product you keep using it, I was happy with XP and just as happy with Vista, I guess some people find it hard to accept new changes,


Stephen
So you reackon 2010 Vista will be replaced, that don't surprise me one bit, And I bet the reason is not because people don't like it, the reason will be like everything else, new technology progresses, Why was Windows 95 replaced, Why was Windows 98 replaced with 98 second edition, Why was Windows Me replaced, Why was Windows 2000 replaced, and Why was Windows XP replaced, was it because no one like them, of course not , it was progress , It's a wonder everyone is still not drivind FJ Holdens and series 1 Landrovers, No they were replaced by better products ,

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Follow Up By: age - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:54

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:54
StephenL

Windows Seven due 2010/2011 is nothing more than the timed logical replacement for Vista. Vista would have been in the market for the accepted life of an OS at that point. Beta versions are already out there and if you don't like Vista you wont like Windows 7 as it looks and operates almost the same with some slight accessability changes/technologies

Running multiple instaces of Vista here and only issues we have had are slack peripheral vendors not poviding updated drivers.

A
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Follow Up By: Member - Serg (VIC) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 14:07

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 14:07
Doug,

We can argue over and over and still do not get consensus as with many other topics. However one who know inner guts of operating system even a bit will be able to distinguish between progress and propaganda from Microsoft. W3.0, W3.1 and W3.11 was not that good because they never been “true” OSes, but rather extensive application under DOS with all limitation came from that. 95 was not that great OS either, because it has a lot of legacy from 3.11 – was pretty much re-skinned 3.11 with 32 bit extension that can boot itself without DOS. 98 (and ME in particular) were complete nightmare – for sack of making gaming easier and faster they bastardize lots of vital system integrity. BTW in parallel even in DOS time there was NT – truly graphical OS somewhat based on UNIX ideas – that is why it was so great. Then they did W2K – although look more like 95/98 rather then NT it was carrying NT core and starting from SP2 was quite stable. However W2K has serious limitation with some game application (again games!!! When finally they start talk about business?!??!?) – this is why SE was here altogether with W2K despite its instability. Got it? So far progress is DOS (with 3.11 if you wish) – NT – W2K, everything else is regress actually. So they did XP. But in fact there were two of them – XP Pro (that is OK) based on W2K and XP Home (utter rubbish) based on ME. That was absolute nightmare – have two significantly different OS that looks like twins. You can call it “progress”, but IMHO it is marketing – nothing else. XP Pro is actually W2K with some tweaks – even 95% drivers works on both of them! I prefer W2K over XP for one simple reason – they make automatic updates in XP effectively compulsory and seen way too many instances when system stop working because of updates. Now we have Vista. OS that require monstrous machine to just limp along. Everything gets changes including most fundamental terminology. Everything out of place, incredibly slow and ridiculously cumbersome account restrictions. They now jerk themselves from “gaming” OS to “multimedia” OS (when we start talk about business?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?) with orientation on home entertainment. Where is progress here? What in reality we gain? Speed? Convenience? Cost? What except of mythical “cutting edge technology” that require us to rid of old hardware and fork another thousands of dollars for nothing?

Thanks, I would rather sit in “stone age”. As least it is stable. And flies on modern hardware.

Cheers
Serg.


PS There is *VERY STRONG* rumor that Windows 7 internaly will dramatically differ from Vista, lets hope it is true.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 16:07

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 16:07
Vista is one of the worst operating systems around even according to Microsoft.

Microsoft have only given it a life span of 12 months before they replace it with Windows 7 (Blackcomb and later Vienna).

There is still a lot of stuff not compatible with Vista and some drivers and software will not be made compatible.

Most businesses are still using XP and will for many years to come.

Vista and ME will go down in Microsoft history as the worst operating system around.

Anyone who thinks Vista is fantastic probably knows very little about the workings of XP and it's capability.

Windows 2000 was a brilliant very stable operation system and better then XP but for the average user it had it's limitations and user friendliness.

Regards Richard
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 16:26

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 16:26
Our replacement 200 computers are comin with XP... and office 2003
From a business point of view, its stupid to change to Vista when it offers nothing different for the business. Same with Office 2007, why create 1200 calls per hour from people looking for FILE -> OPEN when it doesnt exist.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 16:27

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 16:27
PS. Have a read of this one
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/08/08/vista39s-security-rendered-completely-useless-by-new-exploit
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:35

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:35
Make sure you have SP1 loaded. I don't have Visa but know heaps of software won't run unless you go into SP1
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T NT - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:41

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:41
SP1 has nil to do with it
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Follow Up By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:46

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:46
Doug mate I am in the IT industry (software) and the release version of Vista had problems with "some" third party software packages...you will find plenty of info on technet and google
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T NT - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:54

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:54
Troll 81
I basically don't care what your in , what I'm saying is the Mapsource should/will load up into Vista without any problems as it did with mine, It's just some little thing he's not doing right , when we get him on the right track he'll be fine ,

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Reply By: Member - Doug T NT - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:41

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:41
madcow
I use Mapsource on Vista , no problems , unless we know ( serg included) the problem your having we cant help.

email me direct dtilley5@bigpond.com and tell me in more detail

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Follow Up By: Gazal Champion - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 17:34

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 17:34
Good on you Doug, thats more like it.

Regards,
Gazal.
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Reply By: madcow - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:44

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:44
It came with SP1 already loaded. Been digging around this morning and have found a suggestion to turn off the user account control feature.

Not going grey as yet!!
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Follow Up By: age - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:55

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 09:55
Make sure you install it as Administrator even if you are logged on as an Administrator - right click on .exe or choose option from Start menu


Cheers


A
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Reply By: KennyBWilson - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:09

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:09
Madcow, like Dougy said it does work ok on Vista, what version Mapsource are you trying to load onto your system, you will need a later version but not the latest version as it has a few problems.
I have Mapsource versiopn 6.13,4 , and CN2008NT has the Vista compatible software on it.

If your loading an old City navigator V4, V5 , V6 you find these might not load properly

It makes me laugh when someone that has never used a product can
reply on utter rubbish
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Follow Up By: KennyBWilson - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:09

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:09
sorry about the spelling mistakes
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T NT - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:49

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:49
KennyBWilson
Well put old Chap...the last bit I mean,,, my V5/6/7 versions loaded up OK on Vista plus T4A and OzToppo V2.1 and contours,
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Follow Up By: KennyBWilson - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 17:59

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 17:59
What I should have said was if you loaded the original V 4,5,6 CN from the CD it might not have worked on Vista, because there were no drivers for Vista pre 2006, but since you have the updated Mapsource file eg: 6.13.4 it will work fine, also I think from CN2008NT you won't be able to run it on Windows98SE.

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Reply By: madcow - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:56

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:56
The disc I have is for the old 2.60 version. It came with gpsmap60cx. I may also have to update that to the later version via the Garmin website and drop it onto a flash drive and attempt to load it into Vista. I am only running Shonky and T4A. I have no no need for City Navigator in the country.

We've just bought a laptop! hence our issues.

I appreciate everyones input so far!!

ps it is snowing in the little township of Stanley Vic as we speak.
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Reply By: Boobook2 - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:39

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:39
When installing it right click then click on properties.

Then click the compatibility tab. You will see an option for the program to run as if it was on XP.

If it still doesnt work then do the same thing for the installed program.
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:50

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:50
Spot on Boobook.! Stole my thunder.
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Reply By: Steve63 - Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:46

Monday, Aug 11, 2008 at 13:46
I see that you are using quite an old version. Over a period of time how programs are allowed to run has changed. Win95 and Win98 were undiciplined and basically anything went. This made them look easy to use but caused frequent crashes and created huge security holes. Microsoft to there credit are trying to address these issues with Vista and version 7. Vista is quite a bit more secure than winXP. Technically there are several areas that may be part of the problem. Setup is one area where things come unstuck. Often Vista will complain about where the app wants to insert some registry keys or where it wants to write data. I assume Vista has been updating itself over the net. The updates often contain shims for older applications. The shims redirect calls to the OS so that Vista be able to run your app. The shims can even create new registry locations for the app so they will no longer upset Vista. MS have released thousands of shims. If at all possible you should try to have all the security features running. They may be a pest sometimes but the PC will be more secure.

You have not told us much so here is the generic approach

1) If it does not install try running the installer as admin by right clicking and select run as admin.
2) If it installs, try to update from the Garmin site hopefully to a complient version.
3) You can try "Run as admin" on the application
4) Try the compatability modes in properties. If the app was written correctly for a previous OS then these catch all fixes often work.
5) Vista does not like it when the app writes data back to the program files folder, it uses ProgamData instead. Nor does it like programs writing back to ini files. You could try installing to programData to see if this solves the problem. I would only try this after all else has failed.
6) It may be a driver issue as the drivers must be Vista complient or they will not load. There should be updates on the Garmin site.
7) See if Garmin will give you a Vista complient version

Vista does sometimes grey out features that will not run. So if this is an issue an update is in order.

The shim would fix all of these issues but it is likely to only be released for applications that are no longer under development or the for the latest non Vista complient version. If a company offers free upgrades often they never release a shim to MS anyway. After all you just need to upgrade.

If all this fails I would think about getting a complient app. If you have a few months to burn and you want to find out exactly how the guts of the OS works then download the compatability toolkit from microsoft. There is about 800 pages of documentation about intercepting OS calls by an application and redirecting them or converting them to the new functions etc.

Steve
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Reply By: madcow - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 07:26

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 07:26
Well i finally managed to load it. funnily enough the disc states the version is 2.60 but it is actually 6.0. My next challenge is to get shonkymaps onto it. I already have them on the desktop running XP.

thanks for your help fellas
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