Diesel Prices

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:13
ThreadID: 60714 Views:3282 Replies:6 FollowUps:9
This Thread has been Archived
Somebody posted the other day about the currency affect on the price of diesel.

The following are prices for Singapore Gasoil (essentially diesel) which is our benchmark. These are the equivalent ‘raw’ prices based on a barrel of refined product (1 barrel = 158.98 litres). July 3 was the high in terms of prices.

03/07/08 – AU$ 1.1829
03/07/08 – US$ 1.1354

11/08/08 – AU$ 0.9473
11/08/08 – US$ 0.8382

These prices do not include any shipping & insurance costs, government excise, GST, or wholesale & retail margins.

At the moment ‘refiners margins’ (what a refinery earns from turning crude into product) are declining which is normal when the price of oil falls.
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Royce- Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:26

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:26
Sigh!
AnswerID: 320399

Reply By: Willem - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:26

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:26
Landy

But isn't the 'raw' price reached by speculation on the stock exchange.

The oil company explores, drills, pumps and transports the oil and sets the Manufacturers price for Crude ?

Then the Refinery buys it(whether it is the same company or not), refines it to the various commodities and charges a wholesale price(Singapore standard) backto the oil company. ?

Then there is their margin to the Reseller including transport and delivery and the Resellers margin.?

And then come the taxes ?

Then there is the Consumer who pays the price for everything...lol

Cheers
AnswerID: 320400

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:51

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:51
Hi Willem

An active futures market exists for crude oil, so the price by default is set by market forces. The market is a combination of producers, consumers, and speculators. The latter group have been servereley curtailed by legislation in the US recently and the recent fall in the price of crude oil has a lot to do with this development. You could argue that organisations such as OPEC can influence future pricing by changing the amount its member countries produce. Another recent development that will affect crude oil pricing is the spat between Georgia and Russia. A major oil pipeline runs through Georgia and this may create supply issues if the fighting escalates.

Refiners manufacture petroleum products from crude oil and the difference in price between the crude price and the refined product is called the ‘crack’ or refiners margin. A refiner could be associated with oil production and examples include Exxon-Mobil, Shell and BP. Others such as Caltex are refiners only. Although Caltex’s largest shareholder is Chevron, who is an oil producer. The refined product is sold to re-sellers such as Woolworth’s or through the refiners own network such as Caltex. There isn’t a charge back to the oil companies for refining.

You are right when you say there are the taxes, shipping and insurance costs, local transportation costs, and then a wholesale margin at the terminal gate. Finally, the service station owner will want to make a retail margin to pay his bills. The largest single add on to the ‘raw’ price is the government excise and GST charges.

Cheers..
0
FollowupID: 587193

Reply By: Member - Paul Mac (VIC) - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:29

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:29
Landy, I know you do a lot of research into the oil prices but.....didn't the oil companies and the fuel watchdog come out several weeks ago telling us the Singapore benchmark wasn't being used anymore by the oil companies to strike the bowser price? I could have sworn when the price was through the roof at the bowser they implied that this benchmark wasn't what they worked off or something to that effect.

AnswerID: 320401

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:55

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 12:55
Hi PAul

I'm not familiar with the comment you refer to; however Singapore Gasoil remains the regions benchmark for referencing pricing.

I
0
FollowupID: 587195

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:07

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:07
I should add that Singapore Gasoil is 0.5% Sulphur whilst the stuff we get at the pump is .005%, so there is a basis risk between the benchmark and what we buy. There are times when the 'spread' between the specifications changes (widens and narrows). The spread is not always transparent and more difficult to identify in 'price discovery'. However, when undertaking hedging consumers (transport & mining companies etc) hedge Singapore Gasoil.

Most (if not all) commercial contracts for the supply of diesel to consumers in Australia are referenced to Singapore Gasoil 0.5%

One of the issues the regularly comes up these days..why is diesel more expensive than ULP and one of the reasons is that it is now refined to a much lower sulphur content. This has added to the refining cost.
0
FollowupID: 587196

Follow Up By: JohnF56 - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:26

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:26
How does sulfur refining DOUBLE the difference.
I remember 15 - 20 years ago, diesel was HALF the price of Super & ULP, in fact, it was just a little over the same price as gas.

The truth is, demand is higher, and THAT makes the greedy oil companies bump up the price.
0
FollowupID: 587198

Reply By: Dolphin38 - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:03

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:03
But why are diesel prices higher at the pump when it doesn't get refined/processed as much as petrol?

Guy
AnswerID: 320402

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:38

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 13:38
It is a good question. The answer in part is due to the fact that diesel is only one product that a refinery produces and refining capacity globally is extremely tight. Diesel is also the choice of industry and there has been huge demand for the product especially in developing countries.

Diesel is now produced with lower sulphur content than previously, consequently the cost of refining it has gone up. Also, retail sales of diesel in Australia are nominal in terms of overall fuel sales and it is a reality that it does not attract the same level of retail discounting that ULP does.
0
FollowupID: 587200

Follow Up By: DIO - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 18:00

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 18:00
Nothing to do with refing costs more to do with world demand and shortage of supply. Simple economics coupled with supply and demand. Not to hard to figure is it!
0
FollowupID: 587223

Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 20:34

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 20:34
Thats an old furfy...he basic percentage of refinement is 20% of each barrel of crude produces diesel.

Diesel requires a significant amount of refinement but DEMAND has pushed the price up. China, UK (huge move to diesel powered vehicles) Aust mining industry all pushed the demand for diesel up and hence...higher prices.

Matt.
0
FollowupID: 587257

Follow Up By: Waynepd (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 14, 2008 at 20:48

Thursday, Aug 14, 2008 at 20:48
"Diesel requires a significant amount of refinement ..."

Diesel is a straight cut off the Crude Distillation process.
At Caltex the process is that the cloud and Flash points are mainly achieved during that initial distillation.
The distilled diesel is then further processed on another unit to remove sulphur and add a lubricity additive to help protect the seals on old fuel pumps.
So are 2 process unit involved to providing marketable diesel.

Petrol is composed of many products. After distillation to get the base stocks, these are fed to various other units for treatment.
The products are then blended into the various qualities of petrol, dyed and sent to market
The components of petrol are far more extensively refined, but the overall yield per barrel is greater than the yield of diesel.
0
FollowupID: 587493

Reply By: qubert - Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 23:07

Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 at 23:07
so why does it shoot up over night at the bowser when the barrel goes up . but takes weeks to go down when the barrel goes down
AnswerID: 320488

Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Aug 13, 2008 at 05:32

Wednesday, Aug 13, 2008 at 05:32
Hi Quebert

It is a claim that is often made, but it isn’t necessarily supported by the facts. I could demonstrate an equal number of times when the price of oil has gone up overnight, but the price of fuel at the bowser has gone down and vice versa. This indicates that there isn’t a strong correlation between overnight movements in the price of oil and the price of fuel at the bowser the next day.

Over time movements in the price of oil will impact the price we pay for fuel at the bowser, but there is a lag in between. And the price of fuel is also more complex than just looking at the price of a barrel of oil.

This post was about demonstrating the currency affect on the price of diesel fuel. For example, over the time period from the high in the price on the underlying Singapore benchmark on July 3 to August 11 the price of diesel in US$ terms had fallen by 26.2%, but in Au$ terms by only 19.9%.

Cheers….
0
FollowupID: 587294

Reply By: Cram - Thursday, Aug 14, 2008 at 18:28

Thursday, Aug 14, 2008 at 18:28
I read an article in 4x4 Australia a little while ago that suggested that there will be no joy in the price of diesel for the forseeable future.

The article cited three reasons for this.

1. The demand for diesel fuel in Asia, particularly India and China.

2. The fact that our diesel has less sulphur, as mentioned by Landy in this thread. They claimed it costs more to get it to the bowser.

3. That the fuel companies do not participate in discounting for diesel fuel as they do for unleaded.

Not sure how accurate, if at all, this article was but it made some sense.
AnswerID: 320700

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (9)