Camera Buffs

Submitted: Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 13:50
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OK troops, need a hand here.

Yonks ago I had an interest in film SLR's, so I have a handle (of sorts) on ISO, depth of field, aperture priority and speed priority etc etc.

Always had a yen for the new DSLR jobbies and we recently lashed out on a DSLR and a HD Videocam.

So here's where I need a hand....

1. With the DSLR (14 MP), would fine mode (JPEG) generally give me adequate quality photos. I don't expect to do much printing. Most likely would be viewed as a slide show on a 42" plasma. When set to RAW, the file sizes are humungous and probably of a higher quality than I would need. The camera is a Sony A350, with more bells and whistles than I would have thought possible, so I need to play around quite a bit. But a few tips up front would be a great help.

2. With the videocam (Sony HDR-SR12E), the suggested format is AVCHD. This is more or less a fait accompli as I don't have Blue Ray which, I gather, you need to view in this format. So ... I can select high quality MPEG2. I gather this only has stereo sound and not 5.1 surround (which I doubt would be an issue in any event, for my ability). Is MPEG2 quite acceptable also? Plus I gather I will find it easier to edit in this mode.
Again, I know I will need to play around with it, but again, a few tips from those in the know up front would be gratefully accepted.

P.S. I will be busy playing, as we're off for another great adventure in a month and I would like to be fairly well up to speed, prior to our departure.

Thanks in advance

Cheers
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Reply By: Jo and Mark (Qld) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 13:57

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 13:57
Haven't got a clue to help you Ross but I bet Peter (Extfilm) is gonna be your man!!!
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:08

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:08
Thanks Jo, how's Mark going these days.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Jo and Mark (Qld) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 16:50

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 16:50
G Day Ross.

Heck of a long story, won't bore you or myself with all the details!!! (nice aren't I!)
More complications than things running smoothly with dialysis.
A friend of ours is a perfect match for a new kidney. She has to lose 9kilos then when she is near goal weight they will start to put together the transplant co ordination surgery which supposedly would happen within one to three months of her reaching goal weight. So all going well it is nice to know that this won't be a drawn out year after year after year saga!.
Trust all is well on your end?
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:04

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:04
Jo

All in all that's pretty good news though ... from the outside looking in sorta perspective. I hope it all goes well and Mark is fine. Give him our regards and best wishes. I reckon there's a lot of larrikin
there just waiting in the wings.

From my end, all is sorta well. Still mis-behaving and playing up, so can't be too bad. Have a slight hurdle later in the year, but not in the same league.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Jo and Mark (Qld) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:11

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:11
Yeh, jokes aside it is good news...makes me wanna wrap up my friend in glad wrap and chase her through the simpson to sweat the weight of her!!!!!!!!! Then life can go back to proper living!
God I hope there is a bloody larrikin in there just waiting to bust out!!!!!! (if he is in there he's been hiding for too bloody long!!!!)

What's your hurdle? doesn't matter whether you'd class it in the same league or not, whatever gets thrown at us can make us all feel just as crappy and interrupt our lives in a way that is not appreciated.
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:27

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:27
The bowel business is looking good. 6 years now and keep getting good reports, so that's all fine and dandy, and history as far as I'm concerned.

Now it's the old prostate jobbie. Didn't actually come as a surprise, as I was more or less expecting it. Strong family history.
Come October, I go in for Brachytherapy and follow-up external beam rad.

Probably should scoot out Boulia way afterwards to give the locals an extra Min Min light to talk about. I reckon I'll most likely glow in the dark LOL.

So ... as you can see, I'm not exactly jealous of Mark's issues. Kinda leaves me in the shade.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Jo and Mark (Qld) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 21:56

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 21:56
Dang Ross... At 21 years of age... !!!!!!

Seriously though, that must be a lot on your mind in wondering and trying to prepare yourself for what you will be in for in the coming months. We can always think we are prepared for something but once your thrown in the middle of it you sit back for a minute then BAM! you think 'Holy Chite... just what am I in for and what are they going to do to me!'

"Probably should scoot out Boulia way afterwards to give the locals an extra Min Min light to talk about. I reckon I'll most likely glow in the dark LOL"

Love it Ross! that is the hard part, trying to keep a sense of humour about yourself and trying not to loss the plot. Mark being sick on top of other things, I'll admit it, I was starting to get ready for a padded cell!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - extfilm (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:11

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:11
Hi Jo,
Sounds like a bit of a hurdle your going through as well. I can certainly sympathise with you as my sister is in the same boat except she also needs a pancreas. But if her kidney fails before a donor for both is found then one of my kidneys is earmarked for her.

As for cameras, I didn't reply earlier as I have just got back from your neck of the woods. Drove to Bris for the day on Sunday to pick up an excavator bucket and had a look at a few new (Second hand) excavators
.
I do not really know too much about the Sony cameras but for the question you are asking. I generally use tiff format but that is for mag quality pics and they are 38meg each image. That way I can do work on them without a loss of quality. The loss from saving Jpgs is really not noticeable unless you resave it many times. I never use RAW as I cannot be bothered doing any work to them plus I have an attitude that you should never play with an image once it is taken.

For TV slide shows I think a medium quality would be fine but the best to do would be experiment to seee what works best for you. But just remember if you do happen to get that great shot you want to make into a poster then you will need as much information in that file as you can get.

Instead of slide shows have you thought of those photobooks that some of these mobs are doing these days?

Peter
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Follow Up By: Jo and Mark (Qld) - Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 16:06

Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 16:06
Hey Peter!
(and just what did you have to bribe those girls with to pose with your vehicle!!!)

That is great that you've got one of your kidneys on hold for your sister! Just make sure that you have her post surgery gift bought and wrapped up to give to her.. Yep, what I am doing for Mark, a can of red kidney beans!!!! Corny I know but how could you let a moment like that pass by!!
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:19

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:19
Hi Rosco,

I have a Sony a100 which is the predecessor to yours. It's fantastic. I'm very happy with it.

If you aren't into image manipulation I wouldn't bother with the RAW setting.

As for quality you can work in much lower quality settings than fine and still produce prints up to A3 that you won't have a problem with. At 14 megapixels you could go printing bigger than poster size without a problem so all you are doing is using more storage space than you want to archive your pics.

For display on a 42" plasma you won't pick the difference between your low & high quality settings.

Dave
AnswerID: 321114

Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:33

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:33
Thanks Dave

That more or less confirms, what I've been reading. But I reckon it always helps to get a user opinion.

Cheers
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:51

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:51
I like to shoot in RAW as I need all the help I can, in getting the picture right. If you are adequate with your settings then I see no need to shoot in RAW and save the space for more pics.

Happy shooting.
Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Jo and Mark (Qld) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:58

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:58
You gotta be careful with your wording Trev. one slip of having stuck in "THE" and you'd of gotten yourself into a hole!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 18:25

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 18:25
Yep ....

I was thinking much along the same lines myself.
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Reply By: siukalo - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:58

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 14:58
HDR-SR12E. The problem with using MPEG2 on that recorder is the fact that the resolution drops to SD. The reason you bought that video camera is it's HD capabilities, which the camera records them AVCHD (MP4) format. If you wanted to preserved every details, I suggest you record them in AVCHD first. Edit it then downscale to MPEG2 later.

If you don't have a blue ray burner, you can always edit and put it back into the HDD in the camera and view it via HDMI. Cheapest way to view in HD.

As for 5.1 i think it sorta does it, but not probably done. Don't count on it, treat it as normal 2ch.

For editing, the bundle software ususally is the way to go. I use premiere it is powerful but very expensive.
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:19

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:19
Thanks for the info.

As you can see, I'm a total novice in this area.
So, from what you say, I will get a better end result if I record and edit in AVCHD mode, then convert the final cut to MPEG2 ?

Could you expand on the differences ... to a video cretin LOL.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: siukalo - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:37

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:37
Ok. When you capture in AVCHD you have a few option they are listed here:

HD FH 16Mbps (1920x1080): 880mins
HD HQ 9Mbps (1440 x 1080): 1780mins
HD SP 7Mbps (1440 x 1080): 2160mins
HD LP 5Mbps (1440 x 1080): 2880mins

But once you use MPEG2 the resolution drops to:

SD HQ 9Mbps (720 x 576): 1780mins
SD SP 6Mbps (720 x 576): 2640mins
SD LP 3Mbps (720 x 576): 5060mins

You can see now there is big resolution difference in HD and SD which when you use MPEG2 it only capture in SD. As to your question should you record in AVCHD then convert to MPEG2 after editing. I would prefer that way. In this way you still have the ability to put those footage in HD when blu ray becomes within your reach. If you start with MPEG2 you are stuck with it.

The next quesion now you might ask is what yields better quality if you capture from AVCHD then convert to MPEG2 or if you capture MPEG2 directly? Well I say if you choose to only want SD not HD. Then capture in MPEG2 straight from camera.

The quality of the video is based on resolution and bit rate. If you look at the spec I listed. you see the bit rate is listed in Mbps. Drop me a mail if you need more help.

Hope this helps you understand a bit more.
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:48

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:48
OK

I'm starting to get the gist.
One final question. Is there any particular software you'd recommend for converting from AVCHD to MPEG2 ?

Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated.

Cheers
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Reply By: HGMonaro - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:26

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 15:26
I'd suggest to shoot the highest quality/resolution jpg files it gives and learn how to resize to suit your plasma (i.e. resize to suit plasma's native resolution). The editing process will let you obtain a much better result, allowing you to fix wonky horizons, crop extra unwanted elements and fix some exposure faults. Shooting RAW won't give any more resolution, just more ability to play with conversion settings when you turn it into a jpg, however this adds an extra step in your workflow. If you have a shot you think is going to be great, you can always shoot that in RAW (this is what I do) to play with later. Shooting everything in RAW will require a lot more memory cards depending on if you've got a laptop/storage device to dump the files too.

Don't forget to establish a backup routine too.

Nige.
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Reply By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:39

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:39
alot of camera buffs will tell you you should always shoot in RAW
.......... what they donttell you there is little point if you arnt post processing every image extensivly.
Im just a casual user and limit my post processing on either windows picture viewer or photoshop elements to auto correct or contrast/colour adjustments which can be done with a J peg
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Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:39

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:39
Your Sony A350 has a particular ability that you may or may not want to use but is relavant to the best answer. It is one of the few cameras that will show photos in HD mode direct to an HD tv. All cameras can display shots on tv but only a few can do HD shots on an HD tv. You may not want to do large prints, but you might want to show your shots on a large HD screen TV. The quality of hd shots shown on a HD tv is considerably better than regular jpeg from a camera that does not have this ability on either HD or regular tv. Do you want your shots to be HD compatible?
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Qld - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 18:03

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 18:03
Tell me more, please.

I was thinking of setting the aspect ratio to 16:9 (HDTV), with the image size to large (4592 x 2576 pixels) and the quality to fine (JPEG).

Is it the aspect ratio to which you were referring, or is there something else I should know.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 19:41

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 19:41
Re HD tv. Sony does something most of the others don't. It saves a second file buried in the jpeg or RAW that enables the shot to be seen in HD on an HD tv. (This makes Sony files slightly larger than equivalent files from other makes.) To do this you need a special mini HD connecting cable and you will find a special outlet plug on your camera for this cable. You can buy mini HD cables on ebay that do the same much cheaper than the Sony cable. This is NOT the same as the cable that comes supplied with the camera for connecting to normal tv (this will also connect to the HD tv, but you wan't see the pictures in HD mode. You then have to show your pictures through a device that has an HD output. The camera can do this but only when your pics are on either a compact flash card or Sony memory stick. (The A700, and I think, the A350 also) come with a remote control so you can use your camera to control slide shows when you view from the camera.)This is OK for viewing the shots you have just done but you need something else for a big collection of saved shots. Some use the Sony photo frame viewer, which also has an HD outlet. Some use a Playstation. There are other options.
You have a fantastic camera with some unusual features that are generally not understood in the marketplace. But it is complex.
Two sites you might want to know about that can give lots of help with this camera

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1037

Now the tricky bit. As another responder noted, jpeg is a "lossy" format. Each time it is resaves, the picture downgrades a little. I don't know how this effects the HD file, or whether if you save in another format such as TIFF, the buried HD file will be lost. I am also not certain whether or not the size of the stored file alters the picture quality depending on the size of the HD tv you have. I'll do some more research on this for you. This was a topic I was just starting to explore re my A700 and your post came up before I feel totally in control of all the details. This is llikely to lead to more lengthy posts so we might want to do this by email rather than posting here.
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:48

Monday, Aug 18, 2008 at 17:48
As I understand it if you shoot as a JPEG and then edit and save it again as a JPEG you lose quality as JPEG is a lossy type of process. It is always best to shoot as a tiff or a giff or Raw and edit then save to what you want.
I found this out to my dismay after doing the wrong thing with 150 old slides and having to redo them again. Took about 2 hours each one to clean them up to a presentable conditon after being stored for nearly 40 years
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:26

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:26
I see no reason to do repeated saves of JPGs. I edit the out-of-camera JPG and then save it as JPG. If I want to do any other edits I go back to the original JPG and so don't lose quality.

I save most of my images as JPG-only and have no problem with producing high-quality prints.

Early digital SLRs produced lousy JPGs and a lot of people can't move on from there.

I only use RAW in really challenging lighting - sunsets, backlighting.

Even sunsets I'm doing now with bracketed JPGs combined using automatic HDR software e.g. Paint Shop Pro X2.
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:20

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:20
The MAXIMUM resolution you can show on ANY TV set today is 2MP - 1920 x 1080. This is also fine for medium size prints.

It's a good idea to save images at a higher resolution, so you can do some cropping and still have at least 2MP. Although if you're only going to display on a TV then buying a 14 MP camera was unnecessary.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:32

Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 22:32
Only Full HD TVs are 1920 x 1080

Standard HD is 1366 x 720.
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