trailers v vehicle loads

Fastmick,
You are dead right 90 % of of the vehicles crossing the Simpson are way overloaded and there would not be many of us who could say we have never been overloaded . I have had 4x4's now for 25 years and said I would never take a trailer. 2 years age I said I would not go back to Cape York with out a tinnie, the problem was the car was already overloaded so I decided to buy a Kimberly camper (under protest but I also love fishing) so I could carry a tinnie. Its the best thing I ever did, the car travels better now than when it was overloaded and the Kimberly has never hampered where I want to go. The real secret, as in any 4x4 driving is tyre preasures and tyre diameter, we run Cooper 285s on both car and trailer.

Regards john

Fast Mick, I can't follow the logic that it's OK to drag a trailer through a fragile environment like the Simpson Desert because there are people with overloaded vehicles going across. Ever heard the old saying ... Two wrongs don't make a right? The only way to do any off road trip is in a vehicle that is not overloaded. I don't care about the headaches the campers cause to their owners but I do care about the damage to the desert and the headaches for those who have to help retrieve them .... mind you the last time I saw a trailer slide off the side of an outback road I didn't stop to help the fool towing it. Fancy trying to tow a 6X4 trailer behind a cruiser on a road just opened after rain! He lasted about a kilometre out of Tibooburra.

Fast Mick, I can't follow the logic that it's OK to drag a trailer through a fragile environment like the Simpson Desert because there are people with overloaded vehicles going across. Ever heard the old saying ... Two wrongs don't make a right? The only way to do any off road trip is in a vehicle that is not overloaded. I don't care about the headaches the campers cause to their owners but I do care about the damage to the desert and the headaches for those who have to help retrieve them .... mind you the last time I saw a trailer slide off the side of an outback road I didn't stop to help the fool towing it. Fancy trying to tow a 6X4 trailer behind a cruiser on a road just opened after rain! He lasted about a kilometre out of Tibooburra.

Fast Mick, I can't follow the logic that it's OK to drag a trailer through a fragile environment like the Simpson Desert because there are people with overloaded vehicles going across. Ever heard the old saying ... Two wrongs don't make a right? The only way to do any off road trip is in a vehicle that is not overloaded. I don't care about the headaches the campers cause to their owners but I do care about the damage to the desert and the headaches for those who have to help retrieve them .... mind you the last time I saw a trailer slide off the side of an outback road I didn't stop to help the fool towing it. Fancy trying to tow a 6X4 trailer behind a cruiser on a road just opened after rain! He lasted about a kilometre out of Tibooburra.

Good to see some common sense Mick and John .People seem to believe towing a trailer is akin to bush bashing but if you stop and watch a grossly overloaded 4by trying to use its tyres as the suspension and the whoops left behind you dont have to be a road scholar to work out whos the vandal.

This discussion always goes nowhere. Too many variables to list and then to agree on.

Doesn't it in the end depend on the driving capabalities of the person?

A person with a trailer may have excellent throttle control, know exactly how soft the sand dune is and not have to stop near the apex because there is someone comming from the other side. Result = no damage to track and confirmation that "of coarse you can take a trailer" across the Simpson.

But if everone was that good and lucky, then why are there chicken runs all over the larger sand dunes? OK - some 4wd's without trailers and bikes do the chicken runs, but you have to agree that the skill required to travel with a trailer is much greater than just driving a 4wd - even if it is overladen (whatever that means)

So my conclusion is that in general the average driver would probably do more damage to the dunes pulling a trailer - and that includes me.

Peter

Yeah how much rain had they had HEAPS
How much compaction of the track was there Heaps.
Try doing it with a trailer under normal conditions and anyone with a bit of common sense Knows only to put light things on your roof
If People used the correct Tyre pressure it would make things a lot easier.
I,m sure the Locals who have to use the tracks DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU.

The main point 'fast mick' was making was overloading. The trailer debate is a personal choice and I have towed one on occasions - but I would suggest though, that towing trailers to some places eg. the Simpson or CSR is not wise. In regard to loads, it does amaze me at how much 'stuff' people seem to take. As you will notice from 'my rig', I manage to visit all the 'difficult' places in a small light vehicle - and we still take all the comforts of home. Gear is a 'catch 22' situation - the more gear, the more fuel, the more recovery gear etc etc. We chatted to some people in the Rudall R NP once, who had had to make a detour into Newman to have the chassis welded up on their Troopie - not supprising considering the load they were carrying, there was hardly any room left inside to sit, and the full length roof rack was packed solid as well.

and the moral of this story is - Travel Lightly and Tread Lightly !!Colin - Subaru Forester
- size isn't everything ! -

IMHO - a properly set up trailer, that is the proper hitch, tyres, correctly packed and prepared etc is far safer that an inproperly packed and over loaded vehicle.

After 20 years in the Army, everywhere we go we take trailers behind our vehicles and carry equipment and loads that most civy drivers would not consider and I have not had any major problems.

Its your choice and you live with the consequences. I take a trailer and I accept the responsibilities.

Karl

with regards to driving heavy vehcials, you used to need to up grade your licence to drive a vehical over 2,500 kg's or so. now your mum can hopp into a vehcial up to 4500 GVM on a car licence, so much for progress!
Anyway as for over loading of vehicals, I'd like to see a dollar donation to the RFDS for every 4WD I've ever seen go past overloaded, Trailer or no trailer, overloading damages your truck, the trailer & the track! No matter how big a set of springs & tyres you put under your truck the Chassis and drive line will only take so much before something gives.
Plenty of people get away with it, some don't!
Broken down & stuck trucks are not a lot of fun, trying to move the 6 tonne of someones elses landcruiser & trailer out off the track to somewhere safe so you can continue your own journy is not a lot of fun and not very rewarding, you end up putting your own life and property at risk because some one has taken everything including the kitchen sink(then wonder why the diff housing is broken)
as some one else said you try to stop and help someone who is broken down, have been happy to help on many occations while travelling and meet some wonderfull people by doing so.
every time I go on a trip I look at what is packed & try to work out what the other half has put in that we really don't need.....

as for trailers & campers off road like anything being sensible about loading & towing at sensible speeds you can get away with it, plenty of people have no problems and drive according to the conditions, like anything else there are a few turkies out there that will do something silly with a trailer on the back of there truck while on or off the road... most people do the correct thing and take the bypass tracks to avoid damaging there own rigs as much as the tracks themselves.

Happy travelling

I have towed off road trailers all over this country for 35 years and my only contribution to an argument that will go on until God is dead, is that the Simpson desert is one of those places where trailers should not be taken. My experience is that in difficult terrain it requires far more effort on behalf of driver and vehicle to tow a trailer. I would suggest that those of you who have to take your camper trailers everywhere are probably doing so because you cannot do without a few comforts for a short while - including you partner. There is no doubt in my mind that a trailer towed across the Simpson does far more damage than a heavily loaded vehicle. The tracks on the Simpson are evidence in themselves that trailers and poor driving techniques cause considerable damage to the tracks and that comes from someone who is not a greenie.

Here we go again

Why is towing a trailer or driving a grossly overloaded 4x4 across the Simpson "damaging a fragile enviroment"?

What a crock.

The only damage that happens is if the track gets dug up and its rough for the next person to come along.

I cant understand where this "enviromental damage" comes from?

The only enviromental damage done was when the track was first put through, after that the only damage is to the track itself.

I think some people should open their mind and have a good thinkbefore opening their mouths.

And I think a local has much more right to the local tracks if they have to use them to live than the rubberneck 4x4 fraternety who only use them for a bit of fun.

Interesting discussion gents.didn't really mean to open up the whole trailer or not routine again,both sides have valid points for and against and never the twain shal meet.It is personal choise and I prefer travelling with a trailer.There are drivers and drovers and even the drivers have their moments,its not the trailers fault.
I'm sure the other Mick didn't mean the bit about driving past a breakdown,that is just crazy talk.
I was interested to hear the responces to my comment on overloading.We all know that suspension and tyre upgrades allow our trucks to handle big loads more comfortably,however,the vehicle GVM is set in concrete and as far as the authorities are concerned,no correspondence will be entered into.Just ask any truckie.
As to the simpson?Well if I could work it,no,I wouldn't take the trailer across again.Not because it was a hassle,but because it was not necessary.The real reason for the camper is to get there and back.Its a bloody big country.Our trip was 19 days with 5 in the desert.The big problem is getting the time to go across the desert twice,which you'd have to do if you left the camper at birdsville or dalhousie. I'm working on that one, and as I wrote in the book at poeppel,I'll be back.
cheers and beers.
F.M.