Patrol 3L Auto - Driveline Shudder Diagnosis
Submitted: Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 23:20
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Member - Hugh (WA)
Hi Folks,
Over the past month or so my Patrol (late 2003 3L auto) has developed a driveline shudder during takeoff from stationary. Appears more often under hard accel and is worse when turning(either direction). I've noticed if I slow down on a
hill, then accel that it develops shudder but not as bad as on take-off.
I don't think it is an engine problem, seems to be more like transmission or
suspension. I've had a good look underneath at all the
suspension rubbers, uni joints, etc and everything looks OK. Tyres and wheel balance OK. Strangely enough it feels as if from the front end, almost as if 4WD kicking in. I went out and did some beach work to engage 4WD, make sure hubs unlocked after, etc to see if this then made a difference - no luck.
Due next service in a weeks time so I'll get my mechanic to give it a good look over. If anyone has any ideas, or suffered similar issue, I'd be glad to know so we can get a list together to check out. Was thinking to check out engine & transmission mounts, front bearings, fluid levels. I was wondering if the torque converter could be an issue?
I have an extended warranty so could be a trip to Mr Nissan.
Regards,
Hugh
Reply By: donk - Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 23:25
Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 00:34
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 00:34
How many K's has it done, and how long since the (rear) diff oil was checked/changed?
Torque converter may be an issue, but if it's worse when turning, I suspect it's more likely to be an issue with the LSD...
See how ya go after a (diff) oil change........
Regards, Ed C
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AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 14:54
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 14:54
Hi Ed,
Thx - didn't think of the LSD. Only done 110k km and 30k since last diff oil change. I'll check this weekend.
Rgds, Hugh
FollowupID:
589875
Follow Up By: RosscoH - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 21:06
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 21:06
Hi Hugh,Did it only start after you changed the diff oil?
Your problem sounds exactly like the problem I had, Make sure the right oil is put in the diff, not just a Limited slip oil, IT HAS TO BE THE RIGHT SPECS. Then find a piece of hard gravel surface and do about 20 circles on full lock right and then 20 left. The clutch plates in the diff are sticky and you have to free them up.
Fixed
mine that way.No more shudder on take off on corners
Cheers
Ross.
FollowupID:
589971
Follow Up By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:07
Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:07
Hi
Ross,
You were on the money. Check out my reply to Colin below.
Thanks again for pointing out the LSD as a possible cause.
Regards, Hugh
FollowupID:
590161
Reply By: Gunna Do - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 06:26
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 06:26
Hugh,
I have not got a 3.0 ltr, but one of the 2.8 ltr GU diesels, and when it was new it also suffered from a shudder in the drive line when taking off from a standing start.
The local Nissan dealer could not diagnose the problem and after changing the throttle assenbly (thinking it was my foot shuddering) then changing the fuel pump, still no good they were beginning to give up. I had the car serviced at the
Bundaberg dealer, and as soon as I told them about the shudder the service manager asked if I had had the engine management computer and flywheel upgrade/replacement.
I when back to the local dealer and told him about this information and after argueing and talking to the Australian Nissan service rep the computer and flywheel was changed. The improvement was immediate.
Not sure what the connection with the flywheel and computer is but I am led to believe the type of flywheel has a lot to do with the problem (duel mass flywheel).
Not sure if this is at all similar to your problem, but your description of the shudder is almost identical to the symptoms my car displayed.
Good Luck.
AnswerID:
322761
Follow Up By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 07:02
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 07:02
Gunna Do
It's not however the flywheel in this case, it's an Auto mate!!!!!!
Cheers Colin.
FollowupID:
589818
Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 08:40
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 08:40
Maybe engine knock transfering to the dual mass flywheel, upsetting the silicon fluid in there and the computer over/ under re-acting to this problem hence comp and flywheel upgrade,
FollowupID:
589834
Reply By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 06:58
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 06:58
Hugh (WA)
Mine did it after my Cape trip and it was an engine mount.
KISS principal needs to be applied, check it out, but not JUST visually as at rest it can look ok you may need to lift or rock the motor a little to see it.
Cheers Colin.
AnswerID:
322763
Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 07:03
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 07:03
I thought yours was a whole engine and transmission, not just the mount LOL
Cheers Kev
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FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 14:58
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 14:58
Thx Colin,
Will bring it into work this morning and throw it up on the hoist for a better look and good test of all the parts to see if I can't force some movement.
Will chech the diff oil too - probably change it out and see if that helps.
Rgds,
Hugh
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 16:06
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 16:06
Behave yourself Kev
or I may have to apply the KISS principal to you at
St George, as I've not had a good "mount" in a long time, you might not like it.
Cheers Colin.
FollowupID:
589887
Follow Up By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 19:44
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 19:44
Hugh
Howdya go mate?, did ya find anything on the hoist????
Colin.
FollowupID:
589934
Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 19:47
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 19:47
At least you'll know that the motor will get you there ;)
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Follow Up By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 20:19
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 20:19
Gday Kev,
thats yet to be seen, but I am sure it will, even though it's a tojo motor.
Good thing the motors are not made in QLD or that could be a totally different matter. He He He, go the roaches.
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Follow Up By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:05
Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:05
Hi Colin,
Everything checked out OK on the hoist, even with a fair bit of lever action. I checked the diff and level was OK, decided to drain and replace anyway. Oil looked OK to me i.e. no
sign of
water.
I checked the Nissan manual and it specs a SAE140 LSD oil, plus friction modifier. Thread 39393 covers this and references Penrite competition diff oil, which is SAE140 plus the friction modifier already added. This has to be ordered in so I used Penrite Limslip 140 plus Limslip Additive 7098 (150mls). Put in new product and did the R-L turn hint from
Ross and now the Patrol is back to normal. My mechanic uses Penrite oils so I'll have to ask if he adds the friction modifier additive.
Given the new donk on the Toni you might want to treat the diff to some TLC in expectation of the work out it's about to receive.
Regards, Hugh
FollowupID:
590160
Follow Up By: On Patrol (Project TONI) - Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 13:48
Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 13:48
Thanks Hugh
I did foresee such hard work ahead and have replaced ALL fluids, in fact the car has had such a thorough going over, it should get a new car warranty now, LOL.
Cheers Colin.
FollowupID:
590186
Reply By: 2TommyGuns - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04
Hugh.
Stick to the KISS principle mate. Thoroughly check ALL engine/tranny/drive line centre brg (if there is one) mounts. Don't just look at em!!! as it sometimes isn't apparent that the isolator material has separated from the plates that attaches it to the whatever... Get a good size pry bar/jack whatever it will take to try & get the isolator to separate... Good luck.
2TGs
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Hugh (WA) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 15:00
Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 15:00
Hi 2TGs,
Appreciate the feedback. As mentioned to Colin I'm going to bring the old girl into work and up on the hoist for a good prod around.
Rgds, Hugh
FollowupID:
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