New jerry Cans
Submitted: Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 16:41
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richard
Hi,
Just got a new jerry can and have a few basic (others will call it dumb :)) questions
They will be used for diesel.
I have the metal ones
I have a camper which has a couple of holders for the jerry cans.
One of the cans is a couple of years old but has never been used - the other one is brand new.
Both were bought from Supercheap.
Q1 Should I do anything to them before using them - eg rinse out with a bit of diesel or something like that. I may try and use them before I go.
Q2. I will definitely need one can where I am going but will take both cans. Is it recommended to fill these things to the max or could I just half fill both of them to make them easier to handle.
I may take a plastic one as
well as a reserve (this does not fit the holders on the camper else would use that one)
Q3 the jerry cans are at the front of the camper. They are about 2 meters form the stove. Is this safe with diesel. I would be very paranoid if petrol but hopefully the diesel would be a bit safer not sure - why I am asking.
Thanks in advance,
Richard
Reply By: Tippa - Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 17:24
Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 17:24
Hi Richard,
- It wouldn't hurt to give them both a rinse out with a litre of diesel, but i wouldn't worry if they look clean inside with a torch and have had the lids closed tight. If by chance there is a little bit of sediment, you have a fuel filter and
water trap anyway.
- You don't need to fill any jerry can if you don't need to. However if you are going for a decently long tour, then an extra 20L of fuel can only be a good thing. After all, it's always the time you dont take something that you need it! Also if you are towing alot of weight, have head winds and are on soft dirt or sand, your fuel consumption could increase 50%!
- 2m from a stove will be fine with diesel in my opinion. I have worked on jet aircraft for 18yrs which burn avtur (very similar to diesel) and it's flashpoint is far higher than petrol, and it's
reid vapour pressure alot lower. ie for diesel to produce enough vapour to ignite, it has to be really heated up. You could throw a lit cigarette into a bucket of diesel and it will go out. Plus your jerry cans are sealed tight. However if you are concerned, and it is better to be safe than sorry, you could set them aside while you are cooking. No big deal :)
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Kroozer - Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 14:32
Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 14:32
The old ''its only Diesel dont worry about it'' attitude. I swore by this for years when i used to discharge Diesel tankers and work the Bulk Storage Facility. We used to smoke while bolting the hoses together and dismantling them when they were full of Diesel. We used to be covered in Diesel for 15 hours while testing and sampling, but never thought anything less when lighting up a smoke. Never smoked near the ship or tanks though, no way. Wasnt until we had to do our Fire Wardens course that we actually seen how volatile Diesel was. Believe me, we had 3 drums quarter filled with Unleaded, Diesel and Premium Unleaded. We were each told to light a cigarette and drop in each bucket then put out with the fire blanket or extinguisher. I tell ya what the Diesel was the easiest to go up, the fiercest, the hottest, and the hardest to put out. Also it lit more times then the others after being put out. It really did shock the hell out of us, and we never ever lit a smoke anywhere near the product hoses, did our job alot more carefully with less spillage and alwasy washed our hands before a smoke. But yes Diesel does have a higher flash point but it really is just an excuse cause Diesel is dangerous. I still cant believe what i seen that day. Though im not trying to talk anyone out of carrying Diesel in jerrys or anything just make sure there sealed as i said we smoked for years covered in the stuff and sitting on top of 200-400 litres of the stuff and somehow we never went up. Its alot easier for it to light when there is less of the stuff.
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Follow Up By: Tippa - Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 18:27
Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 18:27
Wow is that right! Like i said its beter to be safe than sorry, and i have been lucky with one of the worst of all... Avgas. If my tongue was sticking out the other side, my chordless drill soaked in a running stream of the fuel would have cut short any 4WDing trips i had planned lol.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: curious - Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 17:45
Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 17:45
Richard,
It's only dumb not to ask questions, we're all still learning (hopefully) in one way or another.
1. There's sometimes some particles in a new container from the manufacturing process so a rinse out with a little diesel wouldn't hurt. Brand new containers always absorb the diesel/petrol into the pores of the metal. I used to operate fuel tankers many years ago and we had to fill the first 10% at a slower rate if the tanker had been steam cleaned (it's called flash loading). With your gerry cans and diesel, there's virtually no risk.
2. If you fully fill the cans, you'll get less sloshing around of the diesel but the choice is yours. Half full is easier to handle. You should leave space in the top of the gerry can when you fill them; it's called ullage and is necessary for expansion/contraction of the diesel as it heats up or cools down with daytime temperatures. Just fill the gerry to 20 litres exactly and you'll be ok.
3. Virtually no danger with diesel and your stove two metres apart. Petrol or diesel vapour (empty or almost empty
tank) is more dangerous than a full one. Diesel has a lower flash point than petrol too. My old boss used to weld up leaking seams in our diesel tanks after filling the tanks to the brim beforehand. Mind you, the first time he did it, I was pretty nervous.
Hope this helps.
- Peter
AnswerID:
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Reply By: richard - Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 18:34
Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 at 18:34
Guys,
Many thanks for those GREAT replies - just what I wanted.
My only reason for not fully filling them is to lessen the load but take the points made.
I have one of those Mr Funnels to help filter the diesel as
well (I am really get carried away with this or being paranoid).
I actually bought some good plastics ones but as said they don't fit the holders and less I force them in (meaning I would have not chance of getting them out). The metal ones fit perfectly.
I will chuck one in the back just in case as
well.
Once again many thanks for those very good replies - I can go on to the next issue in my planning.
Richard
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Royce- Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 00:46
Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 00:46
Rinse them.... but it's always a good idea not to empty the last dregs of a fuel can, be it into your vehicle or mower or chainsaw, because a bit of residue will often build up at the bottom.
A full jerry is usually safer than empty due to less sloshing and less gas space.
Murphy's law is that if you don't take full cans... you WILL need them.
2 meters is heaps of space.
Consider [if there is enough space] placing some rubber or cardboard between rub points between the holders and the jerries. If you go over lots of rough roads [even enough ks on the bitumen] you can wear through them.
Cheers Royce
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 02:08
Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 02:08
Crikey Richard, you have scored the top advice.
Add to that, if you're an Elder Person (read 'Old Fart'), then a bit of a swing'n rhythm with a gerrycan helps no end. But that's not your concern, eh.
Mate we use Rheem gerrycans. Always fill to 20L exactly, to facilitate fuel consumption figures later on. Space is tight, so shove a knee into the can before tightening the cap. Same applies to
water, except you fillum right up, then squeeze em.
Mate, I'm not particularly
bright. Nor unduly stupid. When I either know it all, or no longer need to ask embarrassing questions, then I'll probly just lie down quietly and die. But 'till then, I'll keep flaunting my ignorance. (Especially wrt electronic mapping), and offering what meagre advice I can remember.
Onya Richard. Feel free to question further.
Jeff H.
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 07:25
Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 07:25
Some real experts here eh....regarding Q 3
Tippa says..."and it's flashpoint is far higher than petrol"
and
curious says..."Diesel has a lower flash point than petrol too"
of course 1 is right .
.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: curious - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 08:48
Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 08:48
Tippa described it correctly; I didn't.
Must admit I had to drag out the text books again to get a proper definition:
The flash point of a chemical is the lowest temperature where it will evaporate enough fluid to form a combustible concentration of gas. The flash point is an indication of how easy a chemical may burn. Materials with higher flash points are less flammable or hazardous than chemicals with lower flash points.
Some fuels and their flash points at atmospheric pressure are listed below although it should be noted that these fuels can differ in composition e.g. diesel can be winter/summer grade, biodiesel etc, each of which varies the flashpoint.
Fuel Flash point
Ethanol 13°C
Petrol 62°C
Jet fuel >38°C
Kerosene >38–72°C
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Follow Up By: curious - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 08:52
Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 08:52
My cut & paste of the table above stuffed up. Hopefully this one works correctly:
Fuel Flash point
Ethanol 13°C
Petrol 62°C
Jet fuel >38°C
Kerosene >38–72°C
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: curious - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 08:55
Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 08:55
The gremlins are out to get me:
Petrol is: 62C
Others are correct
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Follow Up By: curious - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 09:04
Tuesday, Sep 02, 2008 at 09:04
Try again:
D-i-e-s-e-l is 62C
Petrol is minus 40C
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Follow Up By: Tippa - Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 20:54
Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 20:54
Doug, no-one is an expert and if they say so then they are usually setting themselves up for embarrasement ha ha.
We are just blokes who are sharing a bit of knowledge we have picked up from here and there.
As it turned out with Q3, its not hard to confuse the terminology, and even though i was right with it, we were both saying the same thing and offering the best advice to answer his question.
Good pick up though as some people do blurt out uneducated poor advice!
Cheers!
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Reply By: Member - Alastair D (NSW) - Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 08:41
Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 08:41
Richard,
A cheap way to protect the metal cans and stop them rattling is to go to your local tyre place and get an old truck inner tube. Cut a section out and it slips over the cans quite
well. looks a bit wobbly because of the curve but it costs nothing but a little bit of time.
cheers
AnswerID:
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Reply By: tartankoala - Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 13:20
Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 13:20
Was going to ask a related question so instead of starting a new thread I'll piggy back onto this one if that's OK?
I have a 20litre plastic jerry can for petrol. I was wondering where the safest place to carry it is when it's full. The two options I have are either in the back of the motor or in a Thule roof box (would have to be stored on it's side).
Any tips?
AnswerID:
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Reply By: richard - Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 18:41
Monday, Sep 01, 2008 at 18:41
Guys,
Once again for you answers and interest.
The camper I have has two metal frames for jerries but don't fit the Spectre yellow plastic ones I had bought due to weight and they are a good can I had wanted to use them (but being a nong I did not measure them up first). These cans have a wider base than the top!! I could push them in with effort but doubt I would get them in or out if had fuel in them.
I do have a couple of metal ones as
well which do fit and I will use those in the holders. I will take a Spectre plastic one with me just in case in the back or strapped to others
To stop rubbing metal on metal I will use one of those rubber mats that people use for
camping (the ones with the holes in) to put under the cans. I have also ran some ribber strips around the other metal bars. As I did not have enough of this I cut up some black 10mm
water hose and put that over the rest - It all goes to give a snug fit. I will then strap them both down so should be OK.
Once again,
Many thanks for the replies,
Richard
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Mainey (wa) - Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 19:57
Wednesday, Sep 03, 2008 at 19:57
richard,
another trick is to keep as much air out of the metal jerry can as possible, because
water will only form from the AIR left in the can, not from the diesel.
Totally fill the can and then completely empty it, so there is no fuel/air combination.
Mainey . . .
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Follow Up By: Tippa - Sunday, Sep 07, 2008 at 13:04
Sunday, Sep 07, 2008 at 13:04
Mosy fuels have
water in
suspension in them, so sitting still over a period of time the
water will still find its way to the bottom even if they are full. However you are definitely right that keeping the containers full will eliminate the majority of the prob.
I personally wouldnt worry about it during tours as you would be using the fuel over a period of days or weeks, not months where it could become a problem.
Cheers!
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