Permit system; good, bad or ugly ?

But Serg, would that be a bad thing? After all, how can the average person put pressure on the Govt to change things if they don't even know that such things exist ? And they do exist, and have done for a long time.
Could we not fund schemes that employ the locals to become tourist guides etc if the permit system was abolished? Are there communities that are ready for such things ?
Or are we doomed to go the way of some of the Americans, with a casino on the "reservation"?

Valid point Serg ......

Bear in mind tho .... with all the funding assistance available from all sorts of agencies those " awful and distressing living conditions " are due to choice of living style and location.

Many of our indigenous have been more than happy to embrace western standards of health, hygiene and lifestyle.

I never said that it good things. Quite on the contrary wholly agree with you - if more people will see sooner we can expect changes. And yes, we are doomed.

Cheers
Serg

OzTroopy,

We came back to “aborigines” discussion a week or so ago where I make gruesome conclusion that they have very slim chances of improving their lifestyle unless they throw away their entire heritage and became Balanda (this is how they call white people).

Serg

Have to disagree Serg ......

There is much of their culture they can retain. They can even live naked and chase kangaroos if they want ........ Im happy for areas to be set aside for that.

Its the expecting cash / medical services etc as well is where they make the mistake. To want those non aboriginal things - then they need to adjust their lifestyle.

I have to agree with Footloose and OzTroopy here,

We have been through a few community's in our travels and it's interesting to note the condition of the tax payer funded housing and land in these community's.

I for one don't want to see the aborigines lose any of their heritage or culture. This is always a difficult argument.

Ross.

Hey, guys, I did not said that I like them too loose their heritage, quite on the contrary. What I have said that it is difficult for me to see how they can combine their heritage and “Balanda’s” lifestyle - latest is essential for gaining access to education, medicine and other goodies that makes us live longer then aborigines.
For example we have a family that lived in Darwin for quite a while. I have no reason to disbelieve what they saying. Among other believing aborigines decline to live in place where someone died. While it is OK for outback with plenty of space, it is absolutely incompatible for dwelling in flats, units or houses. Because eventually they abandon all those units where someone has died and gathered themselves in big numbers in unit where no-one die as yet. Our friend said that this is wide spread among “not that civilized” aborigines. How you suggest battling this? Teaching them that their religion is cr@p? Thus they have to abolish it and start to believe in Chris? This is exactly what I called “loosing heritage”. And such examples numerous.

Under no means “aborigines question” has simple answer.

Cheers
Serg

Hi Serg What happened when they were nomadic and white vella was not here and someone died at the only water hole,did they abandon that place.Also aborigines found it easy to beiieve in Christ as they are extremely spiritual people.Unfortunatly we throw to much money at this problem and dont solve much.

Doug, I'd never apply for one. I hate cities, anywhere in the world :))

Here here!

Farmers roads, medical clinics, stores, schools, fuel stations, water supply, houses, power etc are not funded by tax payers.
As long as I am paying for the services I think I have a right to at least access them?

Hairy

Re read your statement again I think you will fine you are Wrong....

Ok Ok..... It may be worded wrong...

The farmers dont have private clinics and roads etc funded by tax payers,on their land that cant be accessed by those who paid for them.....
Is that clearer you grammar guru?

Ha Ha

I wasn't talking about the wording what the would I know about that. dumb as me.. :-)

It was the statment..

How could wanting to see " value for money " programs be too critical.

Less agencies, therefore less admin payments and more achievements with the money ......... commonsense perhaps ?????

Nah Footloose!

Your putting forward a logical alternative.

That's far worse than being critical. LOL

Ian

Hi Footy

I mentioned in one of my previous Thread replys that we Contract
to State and Federal Government Departments for Plumbing Work,
some time back, we were invited to submit a Price for various works
on some of the Aboriginal Communities, eg not only Plumbing plus
minor Building repairs, I was amazed, when I saw the amount of
repitition work which had to be done on a regular basis, when I
queried this, the answer I received was, as soon as the Contractor
walks out the door, it's virtually damaged immediately, and some
jobs were you have to return the next day to complete, the work
has been vandalised, they said it's a never ending problem,
needless to say we passed on it, maybe the Permit Money might
help pay for that.

Hi Daza, as you know many of them live for the moment. It's always been a hunter gatherer culture, rather than a farming culture.
Our benevolent governments seem to have supplied them with another long term culture, a hip pocket cargo cult mentality. No worries mate, the govt will pay. We can always get another tap/house etc.
This is an acquired mentality, rather than an innate one. They've learned many things from us, miost of them our worst traits sadly.
So this mentality isn't confined to any one group in society; they aren't newly discovered ones.

What is newly discovered is that the govt doesn't have any funds of its own. We are learning where the money comes from, and judging by the responses, don't always like where it's going.

But in this case it isn't always vandalism. It's the "use it and throw it away" bit that seems to have come from being a nomad. (We'd possibly see it as being irresponsible, but ...)
This is one bit of "culture" that doesn't need to be preserved.

I agree Footy

Maybe what ever Monies that come from Mining Royalties, ect and
Tourism on there land, can fund there needs in the future, I Whole
Heartedly agree that they should be self proficient, keep there
Culture but advance into Modern Day methods to have better
Health and Education for there Children ect.

Daza .... have had some limited involvement regarding repairs as you describe.
Recently watched the same house virtually rebuilt 4 times in 4 yrs until it mysteriously burnt down. Wasn't a one off example in the district either.

Footloose ..... your " hunter / gather " comment is the essence of the problem.
An alledged 40,000yrs of " pick it up - throw it away " mentality cant be changed in 200yrs, especially when we ( i.e. govt ) compound the problem with handouts and adopt the farcical acceptance of their diminished responsibility for their actions.

In regards to self sufficiency / proficiency ....
Many are probably not aware that NSW Aboriginal Land Councils are meant to be self sufficient. A major one off payment was made to the state council some time ago, to facilitate this. Since that occurred virtually all the individual land councils have failed and been placed under administration by contracted auditors. The reason .... an inability to manage their own affairs. Once the auditors have the councils back on track ... they are handed back to a supposedly trained board of community members ( this is a legislated requirement ignored in most cases ) ...... then it takes about 3 weeks for the wheels to fall off and the implemented budgets etc are thrown out the window and the whole process starts again.

Sadly Louie .... I have less respect for them now than what I had twenty years ago.

Primarily because I am now " told " to respect them ( and others ) regardless of their behaviour.

Further ... twenty odd years ago I stood alongside several elders in the kimberlies and had it explained to me that a certain artform was " rubbish art " and not aboriginal.

Many years later it was proven to be some of the oldest art in the country. Suddenly it was embraced as aboriginal and there were even complementing " dreamtime stories " to verify it.

Apparently it was of benefit in showing long term occupation for land claims.

Lots of issues to be dealt with yet unfortunately .....