Diesel or petrol

Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me

Did you read the original post?
The question was about Petrol vs Diesel for a guy who wants to do the big lap. Nothing more, nothing less!!

He was definitely not into comp vehicles which are usually so modded that they are totally unsuitable for touring around the country anyway.

End of gripe.......

Disco.

Did you read the original post?
The question was about Petrol vs Diesel for a guy who wants to do the big lap. Nothing more, nothing less!!

He was definitely not into comp vehicles which are usually so modded that they are totally unsuitable for touring around the country anyway.

End of gripe.......

Disco.

Sorry about the double posting.
Might have something to do with the "Server not available" message that is plaguing me again.

Disco.

Seeing that you forgot to add a few facts – here are the specs of a couple of modern motors.

Toyota 200 Series - available in the following motor options.
Diesel 4.5Litre V8 – 195kw – 650Nm Torque at 1600 rpm - 10.3 litres / 100ks
Petrol 4.7Litre V8 - 202kw – 410Nm Torque at 3400rpm - 14.5 litres / 100ks

How does that grab you for diesel grunt?

Note; this is not a plug for Toyota – it just that their website made it convenient for the comparison of the 2 technologies on similar size motors of the same vintage.

Hi Dennis

It would be lovely if that were real - while the engine can theoretically deliver 650nm of torque (which is almost as much as the Volkswagon Tourag), it is constrained by its control system to not deliver that at certain times for fear of breaking the transmission.

Its hard to get figures for overall performance - and the only one I have seen put the patrol about 1 sec ahead in the 0-100km run.
To be fair the Toyo's don't come it manuals and weigh about 300kg more.

Pity really - I guess they don't make them like they used to.

300kg is an insignigicant weight increase when you'e got 650 Nm of grunt. Do you want me to do some figures in Nm per tonne? Its only simple maths.

So you can't believe the Toyota figures but you can believe the Nissan figures you quote?

The torque figure you quote for your 4800 is a bit of a meaningless statistic.
You can’t do any sort of work at idle as it will stall.
Your max torque will come in at around 3600 revs and you will have to use it above this to do anything meaningful.
(quoted manufactures spec)

As this chap's budget doesn't run to a 200 series these figures seem to be irrelevant.

I can only state that from experience that the 4.8 Auto on LPG has oodles of grunt. Don't know the figures and don't really care. I borrowed the Old Man's 4.8 LPG Auto Patrol last year to tow our (then) 16.5 foot van and it did it with stacks of grunt to spare.

Bloody cheap way to tow a van.

Jim.

Hi Dennis Hi Jim
In can be hard to get to the real situation in these matters.
Perhaps someone reading this can provide more info as I love to debate the issue to a conclusion.

My Petrol patrol has a near flat torque curve above 400nm from 1200 rpm , which it carries alll the way to 5200, and they publish curves to show that.

If you look at the curves for the Toyo V8 equivalent (Petrol) you will find it spikes in the middle significantly.
I have them both and its a bit of an eye opener.

I don't have the diesel v8 curves , but Toyota quite openly say that the torque is controlled below 650nm and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

So what really counts is the energy delivered to the ground when reved out over the useful range of the engine.

And while we aren't here to race the acceleration figures and a very good indication of the total performance and translate well
to hauling 2.5 T up a sand hill.
It appears that on the ground this translates to the 6 year old patrol being ahead.
If you have any different info I would love to know, as I am a potential buyer.

By coincidence I did a long 4wd section this weekend which was monitored and the task was to drive up approximately 800ft over
about a kilometer of rocky track , and the Patrol was deliberately keep below 1000rpm as a test to see if it would stall.
Admittedly, you have to be on your toes to do this as the petrol doesn't have the diesels engine inertia but it performed well. My mates 4.2 diesel patrol is unable to do this , and its a good test that anyone can do, and I was a little surprized I made it.

I'll have to see I can con Jim into borrowing the LPG 4800 again as
it would probably be even better.

Interesting point you raise on the torque curve Robin.

When the Old Boy was looking at purchasing a vehicle to tow their 22 foot van I spoke to Eric, from Eric Christpher Wholesale Vehicles (aka Rock Crawler) for some advice.

Although Eric is a Toyota Man, his suggestion was that due to the torque delivery the Nissan 6 was a better tow vehicle than the Toyota V8.

Jim.

Hi Robin
Obviously we are talking about different Nissan 4.8L petrol motors
I was referring to the one on Nissan’s website.
Maximum power – 180Kw at 4800 rpm.
Maximum torque – 400Nm at 3600 rpm.
Are you telling porkies or have you a different motor?

Basically the same Dennis , that 4800 engine comes with minor tuning changes with from 180-195kw.
Most of the time in austraila it was 185kw , but a couple of years ago it was de-tuned to 180kw and 400nm, and cruiser V8 similar to meet new emissions regulation.

This is why I refer specifically to my car above and in its standard configuration.
(It also has a selectable non-standard higher torque mode)

A real mixed bag I'm afraid.
I think gas reliability depends a lot on the quality of the installation.

More than 1/2 of the people I know with gas have had real issues, and only a few weeks ago we helped re-build the air filter box on a 60 series whilst on a steep track after it backfired and blew it into about 8 pieces.

Certainly with patrols like the 4800 there have been issues with valve recession, but there have also been good experiences reported on here and the Patrol sites.

Economy, has been less of a driver for me than range, I need 1000km range and so have stuck with petrol over gas.

Things have come a long way with engines, there is no real difference in the ELF (engine life factor ) between the 4800 and 4.2 Patrol engines.
Both can be expected to deliver 300000km plus

The more modern turbo engines have become more tricky whilst lack of distributors etc has made the petrol engines much more reliable. I recently changed the plugs on mine at 150,000km but only because I thought I should - not because I had to.

I think , as I said at the outset , that we all have different values and drivers for our descisions and the way to proceed is to get the real story on all of the factors and then make up your mind.


Or you could go the folling way !

A work collegue off mine , looking for a new car went thru the whole process with me over a year , up and down tracks, and finally decided to buy a Patrol wagon.
Went to the dealer got a good price on one, went home got the wifes ok, went back to dealer but someone had paid cash and taken the car he had lined up.

1 hour later he drove out of ferntree gully nissan with a new red pathfinder - apparently his wife had looked good sitting in it.


Still I got a $200 spotters cheque from Nissan !!

Hi Tie Wearer
Jim (Best of road) was correct; I shouldn’t have mentioned the 200 series 4.5 diesel.
Those petrol heads are sooo sensitive.