Urban Myth???

Willem, why run the risk? What is so important to the vast majority of the turkeys using these things everywhere I don't know.
Can't they wait just a few minutes before gobbing off in a loud voice so that everyone within a hundred metres can hear every word!
In the car, shops, pub, service station, every where!
I was in Carnarvon recently, and next to us in the c/park was a couple you couldn't hear until he got on the bloody mobile.
And then the big figures came out, the millions were thrown around, the bull, bull bull, would go on for ages.
They would have to be the worst, most abused invention of any time.

Willem,

The danger is real, and not just from mobile phones - all battery operated equipment can can create a spark that will ignite a flammable gas mixture unless is is specifically designed for use in 'hazardous areas' where there may be flammable gas.

Industry standards for construction and use of electrical equipment in hazardous areas overcome this problem several different ways:
* Designs that make sure the equipment is gas-tight before they can be turned on
* Designs that limit the energy supplied by the battery so that short circuits cannot generate enough heat to ignite the gas
* Designs which will contain explosions within the equipment.

Equipment designed to these standards are tested make sure that they perform as designed. They are certified as "Explosion proof" or "Intrinsically safe" and can be safely used in hazardous areas.

If portable electrical equipment has NOT been designed for use in hazardous areas, it does not mean that it WILL be a source of ignition, but it MAY be a source of ignition, especially if it is faulty (Loose connections or short circuits)

Using a mobile phone while refuelling is a gamble.

Cheers,
Pete

There might not be any hard evidence but there has been unexplained explosions at servos that 'may' have been caused by mobile phones.
Taking off a jumper can produce enough static electricity to ignight fumes on the right day.
Another thing that annoys me is people just chucking their cig butts on the ground at servos and the wind rolls them onto the driveway.
No onder bushfires start when people dont even think of the consequence of their actions.

I dont think useing a fone at the petrol pump is dangerous either but I dont take chances either.
You can chuck lit cig butts in a tin of petrol without it igniting but Im not about to make a habit of it.

I find it hard to believe that a mobile represents a greater danger than the potential electrical 'externalities' associated with vehicles themselves.

I can remember a few years ago in Richmond NSW, A gentleman had broken down just outside of town. He had run out of fuel and decided to walk the few kilometers into town and buy a tin of fuel. On his return, he poured the 5 litres into the tank and in doing so, dropped the cars fuel cap. Being on a very dark stretch of road, he pulled his cigarette lighter out to use as a torch.......Didnt the night light up !!!!!! I dont remember the extent of his injuries but I do know that he lived. My mate is a retained fireman and went to the job.

Haven't heard of any explosions from mobile phones but as the others say why risk it. On the same line of discussion when I was in Weipa a few weeks ago I opened the back of the Cruiser and the servo fellow came over and told me that if I had a fridge in there to close the door. He said they'd actually had a 12 volt fridge cause a fire when the owner was filling up with unleaded - totally destroyed the car. Don't know if he was pulling my leg but he sure sounded serious.

Try www.snopes.com.au it tells you on there it is an urban myth.

Solution......... Buy a diesel!!!!!

Incidentally, there is a well documented case of a mobile phone causing an explosion in Chevron Texaco plant lant year. A gas cloud was ignited when a worker answered his phone while working in a control panel where there was a gas leak.

WELL DOCUMENTED ? I havent seen any thing about it and you said a gas leak
that is not the same as filing up you car with petrol or diesel (thats were the stickers are on the bowsers in W.A.)

There was a chap on one of these forums a while back who said that it was o.k. to travel with your caravan fridge running on gas...imagine being at the servo when he rolled up with naked flame and petrol fumes every where...geez

I dont think the issue with mobile phones is as a result of the RF radiated but rather the batteries. One case I read about was of a phone igniting fumes when it was dropped, as the battery fell away from the phone a spark resulted and it went bang.

I reaaly would find it hard to imagine the RF from a mobile phone causing a spark that would ignite fumes.

Groove

There were two theoretical concerns 1. RF . 2 Spark from battery. Both are so remote you would have a greater chance by a factor of about ten thousand of being killed in a crash on the way to the garage, being shot by a sniper while refuelling, or being hit by lightning. THERE IS NO RISK IN USING A PHONE WHILE REFUELLING.

I seriously cannot believe that anyone would advocate using ANYTHING electrically inclined in a service station. Think about this people..... who wants to be the guy floating upwards (downwards?) sprouting wings thinking to themselves.."ok.. I was wrong......." Whether the internet says its ok or not ok is not the point... the point is "is it worth the risk??????????????????????????????"

Let me also say ..that IF it was proved that your "source of ignition" caused an explosion at a servo.... you would "probably" lose everything....if you survived!
Common sense should prevail!!!!

Some good info on this subject so far (and some bad/misinformed!) - here is my .02c - plus the real reason why they don't want you to do it!

I work in the mobile comms industry and have been designing networks and working with GSM handsets/terminals for 8 years.

There is minimal risk of the RF emissions from a handset causing a spark. Considering the 'Fact' that someone in a gas plant/wherever answered their
phone & caused an explosion. Even when your phone is not being used to make a call - it will still transmit every so often to communicate its location to the network. This is done with a similar amount of RF to a phone converstation. So I just don't buy this story.

What is of significance is that, yes, the battery pack may cause a spark if it shifts around next to the phone body. But consider the risk of sparks caused by the electrical systems in a car. In the engine bay are several sources of sparks (HT system, solenoids, electrical motors) and all are at risk of coming into contact with fuel vapour. Also - synthetic fibres in your clothes/seat covers will generate a high static charge which you will feel if you then touch the metal car body.

What has not been mentioned yet - are the cases where the phone causes the fuel pump from which you are refuelling to give an erroneous readout - and the servo might lose out by not being able to charge you correctly. Similar to the claim that mobiles can upset aircraft systems. This is probably the main risk they are worried about. Plus wanting to cover their arses - which is understandable.

I would rather people used their phones at servos than at 100kph out on the road - which do you consider the higher risk?

Rob

I agree that the RF distubing the pump-s is more that likely the real problem. A car with a cracked and or dirty distributor throwing sparks everywhere, faulty plug leads, static from clothes, etc is risk of sparks than a phone or CB.

Oohhh Willem...You've done it again : )

Well done mate.Just Do It!

Most of it's been covered above but the problem is because the phones are not intrinsically safe. It only takes the slightest ignition source and you potentially have a huge problem. The chances are slim but entirely possible and it's by no means an urban myth.
I work in a Gas Generation (Hydrogen) & Process Plant and these things are banned from our site, as they are on offshore platforms etc. and most industries I imagine would have restricted areas for their use.
Given that a servo is a much less controlled area and the risk of ignition is far greater, I am glad they are banned and appalled at the average Joe Blow who knows better and ignores the warnings.
Just my thoughtsso many places, so little time !!!

Willem,

There must be something cause I havent farted as much since I got my mobile and its all due to the small discharge the phone puts out getting thru my body and igniting the gases in that most secret of places. Its gotta be the mobile, I am sure!!So many places to go!
So much work to do :0(

So the solution to this 'urban myth' is to

Turn off the engine before entering the servo - the alternator might spark fumes from someone else already filling up.

don't get out of the car as the static elect from you to the car can cause a flash.

don't use the pump as the electric motor in the pump may cause a spark.

and definitely don't use your mobile phone.

If the information on this is in the newspaper, on TV or in a Web page then it must be true as are all urban myths!

The odds of any fire in a servo must be enormously small considering the number of 'fill ups' happening around the world, with maybe a couple of incidents.

NB - A few years ago the fuel line on my Camira developed a leak in the fuel line (an inteligent mechanic had routed the line next to the steering shaft which rubbed a hole in it). The fuel was spraying directly onto the alternator and there was no fire - lucky me!
Colin - Subaru Forester
- size isn't everything ! -