we the rich taxpayers

The question would be far better put to the relevant State and Federal Ministers; Carmel Tebbutt and Penny Wong.

So Kevin doesn't have the answers to his own policy??

Would that be Kevin DUDD ? LOL

Need to be careful there Lyndon. ;-)

Kevin Rudd is Jim's best mate and he takes personal offense when anyone speaks about him with any sort of negative connotation.

"Kevin 747"

"Kevin Dudd"

Your wit astounds me. Your originality fears no foe.

You blokes are about as sharp as the edge of town.

Get used to it, he'll be there for at least another 5 years.

Another 5 Years, Cough, blah.
Not if he has ministers like Penny Wong & Garrett.
She is clueless and he's a sell out.

Just watched 4 Corners and I am quiet disgusted at the whole thing.
Past ministers included, but Rudd's mob really is clueless.

Maybe and maybe not time will tell.
In any respect what has the prospective tenure of time got to do with the Australian way of taking the pi$$ out of our politicians??

Howard is still called various names after being PM for near on 12 years and even now when he is not even a public servant.

Hmmmm.

76% approval rating with an opposition in tatters. Can't decide if they don't want Nelson or don't want Turnbull. And the Hyena is lurking in the background waiting to pounce on the dead bodies (he hasn't got the bottle to have an up front go).

Get used to it, Kevin's here to stay.

Yes Jon it says alot about "Co Operative" Federalism when the Labour States can convert water rights to licenses just in time for the Federal Labour Government to buy the licenses back at hugely inflated values.

Guess what the Brumby Government is doing the same conversions here in Victoria and suddenly adding huge values to these licenses.
Particularly in the present market if the license holder actually has a physical water allocation to use or sell.

"76% approval rating with an opposition in tatters. Can't decide if they don't want Nelson or don't want Turnbull. And the Hyena is lurking in the background waiting to pounce on the dead bodies (he hasn't got the bottle to have an up front go)."

sounds very much like the WA liberal party
except they were in a far worse state - look what happened there.

Even K rudd is living proof when the people have had enough as long as you dont put someone the people hate more (crean, latham) a GVT can get up
dont forget the labor party was a shambles not that far out from the last fed election

I'm with you on this Dave .
Willie .

Yes perhaps in this day and age, but they have been grown for many years when water was plentiful and the rivers could also have their fill.
Its only now that water is not so plentiful that the issues of who should get what arise.

$23 mil for a dry patch of dirt that is good for nothing is a bit over the top in anyones book.

This site has some good info on what water went where in regards to irrigation.

Irrigated Pastures are also a high water user in the MDB

Site link

Cheers Kev

even when water was plentiful they were still allowed to take to much out of our river systems and now they country and rivers in paticular are paying for it
please note i am not a rabid greeny but as above cotton and rice should never have been allowed to be grown here

steve

your thoughts are duly noted BUT i still cant be stuffed doing it(punctuating that is)

well bugger me mr robak has discovered the reason why our country is going down the tube who gives a toss if someone doesnt use punctuation i certainly dont cheers borgy

Writing text without punctuation is like talking without opening your mouth.

An English professor wrote the words:
"A woman without her man is nothing"
on the chalkboard and asked his students to punctuate it correctly.

All the males in the class wrote:
"A woman, without her man, is nothing."

All the females in the class wrote:
"A woman: without her, man is nothing."

Couldnt give a stuff what the english professor wrote i must be bloody good i can talk without openning my mouth

Well, at least you're improving. You started with a capital "C".

:)

bugger i realised that after i hit the submit button cheers borgy

Jim,
Do you reckon the water will make it pass the QLD boarder?
It all sounds good in theory.
At the rate that dams are being built in QLD, SA is not going to see a drop.

They don't have 14 Gigalitres "Stored" on the property.
They held a diversion/extraction license for 14 Gigalitres and have not been able to come close to extracting/diverting anywhere near 14 Gigalitres as there is no water to extract.

2000 hectares of the 91,000 is set up under irrigation that has not been irrigated for many years as they have no water to irrigate with.

If it rains in the future then it may well assist with allowing whatever flows that occur to end up directly into the river system.

Bottom line is that they paid a high price for a property that can't produce irrigated crops as it has no water.

No wonder the owners took the money and ran as they would no doubt has walked off eventually with no water to support the long term prospects of the business.

From The SMH

"As well as having irrigation licences to extract up to 14,100 megalitres of water from those rivers each year, it has dams along the Warrego that can hold up to 20,000 megalitres and are about three-quarters full."

Well, acording to two of our most respected Broadsheets, there is currently 14 to 15 billion litres ready for release.

Jim.

Sounds like the press and Penny Wong are reading from the same piece of paper??

It seems that neither Penny Wong or anyone from the NSW Gov let alone Kevin 747 even bothered to visit the station to actually see what they were buying for taxpayers $23 mil.

The station owner is now also saying that most of the water is now gone.

Just another example of Rudd trying to win a popularity contest and be seen to be doing something.

Sorry forgot to post a Link.
4 Corners

That's an a**e about way to look at it.

1. Anyone one "irrigator" who takes 20% out of a single river system (i.e. Condamine-Balonne) will kill it dead pretty quickly.

2. If that 20% got taken out of all the rivers that flowed into the Murray there'd simply be no flow - it'd all be dead.

Yes, unpalatable to some, but fact, nonetheless!

Cheers

Nothing to do with it being unpalatable. And definitely a distortion of "facts"

You're the one who's trying to make it "taste" OK with statistics that look like what Cubby and Co are doing is only a small thing.

It's not a small thing - and pretty well everyone who's seen the change in our outback rivers over the last 40 years - through droughts and floods - will have to agree.

Makes me wonder what your agenda is here?

For a minute there i thought i was seeing a reply to your recent statements on other subjects...only to see it is from you. LOL

Those facts (if they are indeed true...hard to know) do paint a picture that removing Cubbie from the system will not fix the problem in the Murray/Darling network. Yes it will contribute, and there may be some localised benefits, but i'm guessing that the problem is not caused by just one station.

Andrew

Oh dear! Here we go again. Any opinion as long as it agrees with yours!
No agenda here, mate! Just a Q'lander who knows the area in question like the back of his hand and is sick of wearing the bleep e hurled at us from the south.
Distortion of facts? Give me a break! We'll leave that to the Wongs and Garretts of this world!

Cheers

That's good info to have traveller.

Are those percentages for full flowing rivers or does the Cubbie station need to adjust its intake according to the flow of the Condomaine, the Darling or the Murray?

R.

Yeah well "Traveller" it's the back of my hand too. Born in Surat.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my reading of what you were trying to say with your "stats" is that the irrigators are only 1% of the problem.

Because that's the way you presented it and that's why you brush off anyone who disagrees as unable to take an "unpalatable" message.

Is that your case?

Wow NeilT are you a politican by trade?

Nowhere does it say that BS that you mentioned. If you can read facts, then 45% is extracted by irrigators in ONE river system alone. What happens to the allocations in the other parts is not mentioned.

Rather than try to get people to defend facts, bring a credible argument to the discussion. I'm not saying that what is happening is the best situation, rather that you need to provide proof, or valid points if you want to convince people that their understanding of the situation is incorrect.

Andrew

Yeah well "NeilT" my origional post is one view, and I never asked anyone to agree or disagree! Brushed off??! I don't think so.

Perhaps this may help:

Site Link



Cheers

Andrew,

The "stats" were plainly presented in order to say "the irrigators aren't doing much wrong" That's why he's syaing it's an unpalatable message.

What I'm saying is that this is BS because (as you also say) the case he's giving is only a small part of it all. If you multiply the 20% that Cubbie's taking from one river by all the irrigators and all the rivers you start to get why they're all going dry.

"the irrigators aren't doing much wrong"

Where does Traveller say this??? Again accusations without proof.

Facts on ONE property/station has been presented.....nowhere does he say/deny what the impact of ALL irrigators are.

Andrew

Andrew,

The guy contributes to a thread which is about over the top water usage and dying rivers by saying that Cubbie is only 1% of the Murray's problem.

What do you honestly think is his real message?

Whatever the answer to that is - the REAL problem is that agriculture uses 60 to 70% of total national usage and the combination of this and a bad drought is killing our major river system.

some CSIROdata

Robak, sorry to have not noticed your post along the way, (by the way, I concur completely with your comment on punctuation above!) Far from being an apologist for Cubbie, I have visited the property to learn first hand that the water harvested there is from overland flows that have broken the banks of the Culgoa & Balonne Minor rivers in a normal flood situation. This hasn't happened for a few years, as there hasn't been much rain in the Condamine-Balonne catchment area.

Andrew, thanks for your input.

NeilT, probably my real message is that I'd like to hear what's happening to the water south of the border, right down to SA?

Anyway, outa here, gotta fly at 5.

Cheers

====================================
The guy contributes to a thread which is about over the top water usage and dying rivers by saying that Cubbie is only 1% of the Murray's problem.

What do you honestly think is his real message?
=====================================

BINGO, we have a winner! Short of the 1% being exaggerated around 4 fold, just maybe that it what he is trying to say.

Have a good flight :-)

Andrew

Thanks for that robak.

So what the data is saying is that in that river system 96% of water usage is irrigation. I imagine it's similar all the way down to the Murray.

So if you want to save a river you just regulate that usage because you'd have a much harder time regulating the weather.

Doesn't matter what State you're talking about which is why it has to be Federally regulated.

Sounds like a no-brainer to me...

I think you guys need to focus on what the arguement is actually about. It seems you are discussing two slightly different topics.

1. Irrigators use a lot of water.
2. Cubbie station has little affect on the Murray River.

Both of these could be true.