Electrical Question - Fuses

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 at 22:19
ThreadID: 62998 Views:3227 Replies:5 FollowUps:7
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I'm just in the process of ordering a bunch of gizmos to wire up the car and will be employing the SEA fuses from the 12v Shop to isolate the two batteries under the bonnet.

the order of things is Battery #1, 25mm2 welding cable, fuse in question, more cable, redarc switch, long cable across the other side into another fuse and then to the second battery.

The question is, what size fuse insert to get. I plucked 100amp out the air cos the cable is good for about 160 from what I can see.

Any comments

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Reply By: _gmd_pps - Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 at 22:38

Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 at 22:38
Generally you select the fuse to protect wiring and/or connected devices. In case of a battery combiner.

If you have 25mm2 cable a 100A fuse will do BUT consider this:

For the sake of the example:

You have connected an inverter with 40mm2 to your second battery (or a winch for that matter) and you draw 140A from the second battery. You start the engine to support the second battery, the redarc will engage and connect the two batteries and your fuse will go instantly because the the flow is too high. Your 100A fuse also protects the redarc. I do not know from the top of my head how much the redarc takes but I think it was around 100A or was it 200 ?? dont remember (I don't use such a device).

What I am saying is that you first have to calculate your maximum load and then choose the cable and the fuse and if your switch (redarc or anything else) does not support the max current you have to make sure to reduce the load. This is bit difficult with a winch though, so for winch connections from both batteries you use 40mm2 or more depending on the winch (well for an electric one of course)...

So a 100A fuse is ok for a 25mm2 cable but is the cable ok for your load ??

I use 35mm2 cable for an 1800W inverter with a 225A fuse and am at the upper limits of that cable but have only a cable length of 30cm.. 40 or 50mm2 is pretty expensive at the moment (with high copper prices) and very clumsy to use.

So if you have only a few low current devices connected like fridges etc. the 100A should be ok for standard batteries.

A large AGM depleated to 50% will take higher surge when connected to the main battery and will also blow your fuse.

good luck
gmd
AnswerID: 332419

Follow Up By: joff1 - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:52

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:52
1800Watt inverter?? what do you run with that?

I looked again, the cable I have is 35mm. It is what was left over after I re wired the winch, which, by the way is much bigger than the original B&S cable that it replaced.

The batteries are Century cranker and a Deka 92Ah AGM.
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 20:42

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 20:42
When you have 35mm then the contacts of the redarc is the limiting factor. With your smallish battery there should be no problem with that cable and 100A fuse.. resettable circuit breaker is better though, and I always would put a fuse there or circuit breaker for that matter.

I use the inverter for all my on board 240V gear which includes an espresso machine, 5.1 Stereo with sub, microwace, computer with 2 large screens, satellite pvr etc etc ...
max simultaneous use is the espresso machine (1300W) + the computers and stereo. Since the coffee machine is used only short time my average consumption is around 400W which converts to around 40amps continuous, which also includes 12V lights and the fridge as well as the freezer and water pump. I can run this for 5 hours per battery bank with 60% left in the batteries. I charge almost with the same rate from my solar panels. My MPPT charger delivers around 28amps (peak even a bit more) from my two panels.
With some decent sun during the day, we are well charged for the evening and if we drive it will be no problem anyway.

I am in the process of doing an exact energy balance for my setup with consumption figures for each device, that I do not get any surprises.

good luck with your setup
gmd



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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 at 22:44

Tuesday, Oct 28, 2008 at 22:44
I wouldnt fuse between the two batteries, buy some shrink insulation and double insulate the cable and forget about a fuse.Mine is the same setup as yours Redarc and all and no fuse
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 08:42

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 08:42
I have done the same/similar.
2nd battery in the front is only 500mm behind the main battery.

Experts recommend a fuse, but .....................

So I ran a heavy battery cable from one to the other, and it has been wrapped in 16mm (5/8" in the old figures) heater/water hose to stop any chance of it rubbing through and shorting. The heater hose is a snug fit around the cable. I always seem to have old hoses laying around, never throw them away.

If I was really cautious, I would put split conduit around the outside of that :o)

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Follow Up By: joff1 - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:53

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:53
The cable is double insulated to start with. My old 80 never had these fuses but I figured I'd better use best practice this time around.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 22:35

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 22:35
Thats great joff, in that case just run it between the two batteries secure it out of harms way and forget about a fuse
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 09:07

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 09:07
If its a Diesel cruiser you are splitting the batteries on you also have to extend the alternator input cable across to the L/H side battery otherwise you will only be charging the "house" battery.
I use 2 gauge cable between batteries and 8g for the alternator.
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Follow Up By: joff1 - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:54

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:54
it's a 105 with 1HD-FTE. The second batt is purely aux.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:16

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:16
Comments:
#1 If that circuit is to be used for cranking/jump starting etc, then its best to have no fuse because of the very high current. If you go the no fuse option, you have to be absolutely certain that there is no way that cable can short to earth. If it were to short, then you'll end up with a fire under the bonnet and a melted battery. Take a look at a 100series TD motor with twin cranking batteries - the cable deliberately is routed away from any metal objects - Toyota run the cable with a heap of insulation over the plastic cowl and use plastic retainers.

#2 If its going to be used purely for charging the aux battery then its best to have short circuit protection. Best short circuit protection is to use fusible links mounted at the battery posts. Rotronics supply them for their kits. Vehicle manufacturers use them . Fuses usually have a higher resistance at high currents, and can corrode with time. The Rotronics links look to be about 12 gauge.
AnswerID: 332484

Follow Up By: joff1 - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:58

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 17:58
I guess it will only be used for cranking if the main battery goes flat.

I could run a jumper for that odd occassion I spose
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 19:13

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 19:13
If you are using a Redarc isolator it has provision for a button on the dash that when u hold it in it links the two batteries together for starting.
Or as I have done you can put a relay in that does it automatically.
Dont know about the 105 but on the 100 series I had to lengthen the alternator cable as the r/h battery becomes the second battery.
all the engine electrics come off the l/h one
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