OT - What is it about human nature ... ?????????

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 20:53
ThreadID: 63023 Views:4240 Replies:11 FollowUps:6
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A photo of a 4wd and boat, driving a flooded bitumen road ........ So the driver is an idiot.

A photo of a 4wd and boat, crossing a flooded NQ river on the way to the cape ......... WOW ... they're having a great holiday.

I accept that all situations have their variations ... and driver experience / vehicle preparation etc are important ingredients in the above scenarios ..... What I'm interested in is why different responses are reached, based soley on a presented image.

In the case of the recent river crossing thread It can't .. only .. be due to the fact that the council warning signs were visible in the pics. I'm sure that all of us 'seasoned travellers' have come across incidents ... where warning signage was appropriate at the time it was erected but not at the time of our arrival.

Is it because we liken a viewed image to our own experiences ... or lack thereof ... or has it got to the point where the majority of the population now needs signage to inform them when & where to put one foot in front of the other ?????
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Reply By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 20:57

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 20:57
OzTroopy,

This post is not OT so please do not prefice posts with OT as these will generally trigger a moderation response.
David (DM) & Michelle (MM)
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AnswerID: 332544

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 22:51

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 22:51
Noted

Thanks
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:12

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:12
Unfortunately rules made for all of us are really made for the stupid!! That guy had his son in the vehicle also, he had no say in his fate on the day through some stupid act. Im sure apart from the signs there were the water level indicators on the side of the bridge and the fact that you could see in the pics, the water was raging.. I dont think the situation was acceptable.. he should be charged. Michael
AnswerID: 332547

Reply By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:14

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:14
Ummmm,

The clown driving the car took stupid risks, life threatening. His choice with his own life.

BUT

He had a child in the car that was not qualified to make such a judgement on his own life. The child put his unqualified trust in the adult (I assume it was his father).

The child may well have died in what was a macho display of foolishness.

Jim.

AnswerID: 332548

Follow Up By: cheetah - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 18:34

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 18:34
Well said Jim. Macho is spot on. A socially insecure father trying to impress a child. Pathetic!!

Dave
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:17

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:17
My concerns with the video were
#1 The child would have died if the vehicle had been swept away
#2 Who would rescue the idiot - the emergency services volunteers would yet again have to risk their own lives to save this guy and his son.
#3 People get swept away by floodwaters way too often. The guy took a huge risk.
AnswerID: 332549

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:44

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:44
I don't think it's fair to draw a parallel between crossing a river on a Cape York trip and crossing a raging flooded river OVER A BRIDGE like that clown did.

A river crossing on a Cape York trip (at least the ones I've undertaken during my 2 Cape York trips) is done is very controlled way. The depth of the water, the surface below the wheels and the fact that previous travellers have safely done the crossing, all serve to make the crossing a relatively "safe" bet. You can reasonably safely predict the outcome.

On the otherhand, the "clown" had no way of knowing whether the bridge's road surface was in tact or if the side railings were okay.

He deserves all he gets......

Roachie
AnswerID: 332552

Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (QLD) - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 17:43

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 17:43
Roachie. This guy did not access the crossing and it was closed so I agree with what you say, but there is always the first to cross when the river goes down a bit. Up the Cape I was one of those, when roads are closed to others I compiled flood reports as soon as you could get in. Most would say I was stupd for crossing rivers as deep as I did, but my rule has always worked. If you can walk it safely, you can drive it safely (taking into consideration the ability of water to get in to your intake)and it has been true to me. I have been on crossings & crossed rivers safely where there are no handrails and guide posts or are no longer visable. I have not seen what this guy crossed only read how he did it (all wrong & road closed) but I must say if he got across towing a boat then you would have to say that the vehicle by itself was obviously capable of doing it.
So that is the grey area as stated above. If it was a controlled 4x4 situation the crowd would be applauding and cheering.
I just want to point out that to some that may comment is, that what they might deem to be a mad/suicide crossing, may be to others who access the situation/conditions to be quite a safe pursuit. Cheers Tony
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Reply By: rumpig - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:44

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 21:44
i'd have to see both pics / videos to tell you what i thought of the 2 situations. having seen the video of the guy crossing the condamine river, he's an idiot who put not only his life at risk but a very young kids aswell. i've got pics of myself and mates cars in the same depth water doing crossings up the cape, the major difference being clear water (you can see the bottom), we walked the crossings first, and the water wasn't flowing at a million litres a second rushing past.
the guy deserved to get charged .
AnswerID: 332553

Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 22:01

Wednesday, Oct 29, 2008 at 22:01
Know what you mean .

There does seem to be a contradiction here.

When I first saw the video a good few months ago, I wondered about it.

I have been to the cape.
Driven the Wenlock and the Jardine in the pajero without problems.

So why do I think the Condamine crossing was a silly thing to do?

Some one walked the crossings (even with crocs possibly being around) to ensure a good bottom and check water depth.

He didn't. How did he know the bridge had not been damaged? Fair enough you could see the bump in the water where it was going over the rails on the side of the bridge, but to be that confident?

I have stopped at crossing water only 500mm deep, and still water, because I couldn't be sure. Sure of the bottom, sure that if I did stall the car wouldn't be swept away, and sure that if I did stall, some one could easily get to me to pull me out, or some other alternative of recovery.

And in all cases, I have not gone across when the signs say no, and every one else is stopped.

He took the chance, and I hope if he makes the same decision again, he makes it. But I also hope next time he might just hesitate, you don't know, but that hesitation might also save his life if it was to go wrong.


AnswerID: 332554

Reply By: disco driver - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 00:26

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 00:26
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Foul Language Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
AnswerID: 332574

Reply By: Flywest - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 01:33

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 01:33
Here's a point - about the signage or lack thereof.

First the background "incident" that relates.

[quote]
Two children drown in WA accident
The bodies of two children have been retrieved from a four-wheel drive vehicle which was swept down a Western Australian river last night.

Eight-year-old Ashleigh Fiona Mungur and seven-year-old Jack Craig Anstey drowned, unable to escape from the vehicle as it was carried down the Blackwood River by strong currents, about 15 kilometres south-west of Nannup.

The girl's mother and the boy's father - a de facto couple from Perth - were trying to cross the river at Jalbarragup to get to a relative's house nearby.

Police say they told them it took just seconds for their vehicle to fill with water and they were unable to free the children despite their desperate efforts.

The bodies of the two children have been taken to Perth for post mortem examination [/quote]

The thread above is essentially about a guy & child who knowingly drives across a flooded bridge when theres a sign from the local govt roads authorty saying NOT TO.

OK - I happen to agree that shows a certain lack of respect for authority, rules and the life of his son.

What about when the boots on the other foot tho??????

What about - when the local authority FAIL to put any signage up and close the boom gates when the rivers in full flood and two innocent kids drown as a result of an avoidable accident.

The flood washed away the depth indicator which WOULD have shown any driver that the very deceptive crossing was impassable.
It had been so missing for more than 12 nonths and the responsible local govt authority never replaced it.

Had the father tried to walk the crossing HE would have known - but he didn't and his decision not to later proved fatal to both children (as a result of child proof safety locks - even the parents couldn't get their kids out as the car was flooding).

Why do i say the Local Govt Authority and Various Govts of the day were culpable?

Becauseof budget cuts and lack of funding to maintain existing assets is why. There is a brideg right next door to the crossing, and up to a few short years before the tragedy it had spanned the river there for 100 or more years - I had driven over it in the 5 years before the tragedy...BUT successive govts FAILED to provide the funds needed to maintain a perfectly good bridge that had served the entire community well for more than a hundred years - not a marginal seat therefore - no funds!

As a result when it fell into disrepair - the roads board engineers condemned the bridge. Then the shire were forced to build the concrete summer crossing, adjacent to the old bridge as a stop gap interim measure to service the new subdivison they approved without requiring the developer (a shire councillor) to provide any roading or access funding (Bridge repairs $) as part of his approvals.

So we go backwards from a safe bridge to a summer use only concrete crossing with boom gates for winter (which were left open) and signage indicating depth that wasn't maintained and all contributed to the accidental deaths.

I get cranky about this coz it is all one way.

I attended the accident described above - and at the end of the day despite culpability by the local authority AND the various Govts of the day - no one gets held accountable by the coroner, in fact they ONLY went after the "dad" for driving into the deep water.

Yes he made a fatal mistake - BUT there were a LOT of extenuating/mitigating circumstances in the dads defense that were equally attributable to the govts of the day and their pork barrel based budget funding cuts - bad decisions by the shire & a failure to maintain the existing bridge in the first place.

The thing is - when the govt or shire screw up and someone dies - NO ONE is held ACCOUNTABLE.

Yet - we want to hang, draw and quarter the dad above who drove across a bridge coz there was a sign saying don't do it erected by the local authority?

Shouldn't the culpability for putting peoples lives at needlessly at risk, be spread EQUALLY across ALL of our community?

Why do the media only hone in on one dumb dad who got away wit it yet totally ignore culpable govts and shires etc in the exact same circumstances EVEN when death results?.

At least I had the GONADS to say on TV news that IMHO the Shire and Govt who cut the roading budgets were equally culpable in the drowning accident!

I was and still am the ONLY one who said it publicly and everyone associated woith the tragedy KNEW I was right - yet the coroner ignored that totally- never sought ANY evidence from me at all and found NO ONE culpable!

Like I said - there are double standards at play here, and I'm afraid as long as the culpable people in this double fatality case above aren't held to account - then this reported action against the father who DID get thru without injury or death to his child, is the victim of a witch hunt, nothing less.

EQUAL Justice for all, or justice for non!

Justice is not served & is in fact unjust, when it is one sided in its administration!

Shalom
AnswerID: 332577

Reply By: austastar - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:56

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:56
Is this link going to pour petrol on the fire ??

news story

cheers
AnswerID: 332606

Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 13:06

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 13:06
EPIC FAILURE....!
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 13:04

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 13:04
If your talking about the new 70 Series V8 Diesel towing a boat, this has done the circles a long time ago.?

I agree, we are seeing more and more signs nowdays and warnings, no different to Work Safe, etc etc.

Common sense is being removed from human development, in generations to come humans will only need to read the warnings signs and all should be ok..! LOL

The world is changing all the time, I can't even imagine how it could be like in another 500 years.

AnswerID: 332616

Follow Up By: austastar - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 13:32

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 13:32
5th Jan 2008
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 14:19

Thursday, Oct 30, 2008 at 14:19
: )

The one thing we know about common sense is that it is not common.

Cheers
jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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