Dreaming

Totally agree. Many times you can have install problems with aftermarket stuff, and some of it isn't up to scratch. The F/O's can also actually work out not better but also cheaper...certainly in the long run.

kev

.........like the KING GEE tojo,

any tougher it'd rust lol

Come on Kev you know the factory steel bullbars are made by ARB and are 1/2 the price.
Eg for the lux it was $1300 from arb in rocky and $880 for the same bar at toyota both commercial steel non airbag winch bar.
the only difference is the pretty ARB badge that must be worth $420...LOL
Dave

Dave,

The factory one on Darkie is not worth the paper it is written on. I am now going to get side rails and steps to strengthen the outer sides of the bar.

Cheers Sir Kev

Kev hopefully by the time you get back I will have sold the lux and bought back my 105 and I'll show you how to strengthen an ARB bar so the truch crumples up to it and set the truck up right.
Cheers
Dave

Just to add - I went with the GXL model to get the bucket seats - and mags, flared guards, plus lots of chrome are a bonus.

Do not know about LC70, but in my LC80 LSD been doing very little if anything at all. IMHO saying that LSD better then *ANY OTHER* traction aids (manual, semi-automatic, fully automatic diff-locks, lokka, Detroit etc) is plain ignorance. I can assure you that you either been trying non-operational diff-locks or you pick up very plain bog hole. LSD (even best one) DOES NOT operate at very low speed – it need some kind of difference in speed to be activated, thus one need to spin wheels in bog hole to activate it thereby only digging himself more. While any diff-locks can hold wheels locked at any speed, allow slow controlled progress with de-bogging. Not saying that LSD utterly useless on rock crawling. And on top of it Toyota LSD is clutch-type, thus with time friction material wear-out and diff need to be opened and pre-load spring need to be readjusted or replaced to keep LSD in shape. While diff-locks (factories for sure – no o-rings to wear-out) will be in service until diff itself wear out. What was OT about? About dreaming if I am not mistaken?

Cheers
Serg

Hi Serg

You have touched on an interesting point which maybe you could clear up for me - "LSD ... DOES NOT operate at very low speed".

In my bog standard 06 Hilux, with, I understand, a rear LSD, when doing a slow, tight turn on fine gravel you can see that the rear diff is "locked" - the inside wheel claws at the gravel. I guess if that was soft mud then both wheels keep supplying some drive, hence they work well in that situation. Am I wrong?? I have little technical knowledge, but this was how it was explained to me by "Bob", our instructor at a 4wd course.
I guess if one wheel is off the ground then my LSD is only of use if the torque required to drive forward is less than the spring resistance in the diff - so a locked diff would be far superior.
So back to your point... why don't you think they work at low speed? Mine does!! (Well, I think it does)

Regards, John.

Hi John,

I would not comment on all LSD – frankly there is common consensus that Nissan’s one is far better then Toyota’s one. However I did have LC80 with LSD up until I have fit ARB diff-lockers. LC80’s LSD (and AFAIK all Toyota’s ones, though I may be wrong on this point) is clutch-type spring-preload LSD. It means that there is multi-disk clutch fitted between left and right half-axels. This clutch is pre-load with strong spring calibrated in such way that when RPM of half-axles differs a little (i.e. cornering) it “slips” allows one wheel travel faster than other. But when RPM of half-axels differs more it does not slip that well anymore and divert some torque to wheel with less RPM (i.e. those one that not rotating and have traction). Basically from there it calls “limited slip differential”.

LSD is good device and doing job well in “non-extreme” situation. However it does have own limitations. Firstly because it “limited slip” it must occur some slip before it start to send torque to wheel with traction; this dumb mechanical device newer can distinguish what you are doing –cornering or trying to get out of bog hole. Secondly it *CANNOT* send 100% torque to wheel with traction, again because it is “limited slip”. And last, but not least being clutch-type related on friction it does wear out and with time its effectiveness decrease dramatically up to the point that it doing nothing. Then diff must be overhauled, possibly clutch plates and/or spring replaced and pre-load need to be recalibrated.

It modern cars like Prado fitted with traction control same effect can be achieved by electronic means. When computer sense that one wheel rotating faster then other AND steering wheel straight that it applies brakes to offensive wheel thus sending 100% of torque to wheel with traction. This system better then LSD, though it’s activation can be jerky.

IMHO diff-locks are ultimate traction aid because once locked it send 100% torque to both wheels without any slips or jerkiness. Sure they also have disadvantages like cost, necessity of manual interference and in some instances wear components (like ARB’s o-ring for example) that require some periodic maintenance. Also there are many “in-between” automatic solutions like Lokka or Detroit auto-locking diff. There been a lot of fruitless debated what is better. IMHO it came down to the point of one’s preference, driving style and expected harshness of application. I personally in general like manual, hate automatic and as result incredibly happy with my manual diff-lockers, though would prefer Toyota’s ones. As usual choice is yours and YMMV.

Cheers
Serg