Diesel vehicles? Totally unviable at the moment.

Hi Jim. I have owned the V6 petrol for four years now. A very good all round vehicle. Carried up to eight people, towed a 2 tonne boat, done the around town shopping trolley job and toured interstate a few times and it has done the lot effortlessly. As you say, cost effective to service, comfortable and above all, the wife likes driving it. 1500 k fuel range is a plus as well. Thanks for the confirmation. Bob

Jim,

Why I would buy a diesel any day before petrol:

1)because with the diesel I can visit remote places and be guaranteed of fuel
2) In an emergency a farmer will have diesel, not petrol
3) you can cross the central deserts with diesel (no petrol available, lower temp engine with less cause for spinifex to catch fire)
4) more torque for towing
5) longer range between fuel stops
6)less volatile when carrying extra fuel in jerry's or longranger tank
7) more environmentally friendly

I acknowledge it is horses for courses - the above is the course for this horse ;-)

Cheers

For run around vehicles Maybe??, Little Pug diesels still take some beating though!. Can't see truckies swapping their C12 cat diesels,to a petrol what ever to pull 40Ton loads.!!.


Cheers Axle.

Jim,

good points, but diesel is still good in the bush - but not as a run about, or in a car. Really not economical any more. I'm happy to have the diesel cruiser sit in the shed, and call upon it a few times a year. Car is best for town anyway.

Cheers,

You can't just look at the current price difference. Take an average over the last year - probably 10-20% difference. It could well drop back to a similar difference in the near future as diesel price changes tend to lag behind petrol price changes.

you did this once before Jim, and caused a bit of a cat fight too.

My petrol suits ME at the moment and I am enjoying the price of ULP as well. I don't long range tour so fuel will always be there when I want it.

The next bloke who replies will probably need to run a diesel 4wd for what he wants to do. So in that regard what the frig does price have to do with it??

We will buy the 4wd that does what WE want regardless of the running cost.

Each to their own and just enjoy what you got

Cheers Stefan

Who would buy one? Me for one, whem i was looking at buying a cruiser in 2003 i wanted an ex demo, plenty of petrols but minimal diesels. when i finally narrowed it down to 2 vehicles, a V8 Sahara with all the bells and whistles( i love all that wanky stuff ) or a Turbo Diesel Auto GXL.

Q1 What did i want this vehicle for?

Q2 Where did i want to go with this vehicle?

Q3 Did i want to keep it for XX amount of time?

Q4 Did i want a good resale value for it when change over time came?

Price was only 3k between them and this was not a factor.

I drove away in the TD because it is by far more suited to touring and off road work over the petrol. Not to say the petrol cant do it because it can but try buying unleaded on the Canning?? Even today i would still buy a diesel over a petrol even if unleaded was half the price of diesel. Now 5.5 years on i have not regretted buying this vehicle one bit. it tows our van,tows the c/t and trailer and anything else i have ever towed with it effortlessly. try averaging 14 to the 100 towing a 2t van on the blacktop using cruise and sitting on or slightly above the limits. cheers from a very happy diesel owner. Paul

Its a shame really Jim, but I was thinking the same thing as I noted that in this part of the weekly fuel cycle diesel is genuinely around 30% dearer.

Mate came round other day, and his diesel Patrol actually now costs more per mile in fuel than my alledeged fuel guzzling 4800 Patrol.

Strange world indeed, for all the extra diesel issues he has to live with he at least used to be able to claim low fuel costs per km.

I expect things will return to the way they were in time but what an eye opener this is !

Gday Jim, the way I see it

If you drive your 4wd around the cities then petrol wins.

If you do the long desert trips then diesel wins.

Cheers
Phil

Are you still going on about this Jim?

>>>Who would buy a diesel under current conditions?

You obviously don't leave the city often enough because you would be hard pressed to find ANY petrol 4wds up in the north of Australia.

Just my thoughts.

Barnesy

Last trip out I had 400 litres of diesel with me fully loaded.

It's way to much of a fire risk with petrol. At least I can park the ute near the campfire without having to worry.

Cheers
Alan

If you go to the desert diesel is the only way to go. You can't get petrol in some places.

Try pushing through spinifex with a petrol, an under vehicle fire is a likely result.

In short its horses for courses.

Hi Jim, just wondering at what revs your petrol develops its maximum torque, 4-6000 rpm. Most diesels 1-3000 rpm. Makes a big consumption difference in sand or heavy going conditions. Towing also is better with a diesel.
Regards
Krakka

Hi Jim,
Your right about why have a diesel when ULP is so much cheaper.
One point, that hasn't been raised is when crossing creeks and the like.
I know I would rather a diesel cause it does not have all that Fancy Nancy electric crap that needs to be waterproof. A lot has changed since there was just a Coil, Distributor, Points, Condenser, Plugs and Leads. Our commodore doesn't even like having it's engine bay degreased. In a modern petrol vehicle, if it stops where to you begin to have it start again? I'd hate to cross deep water with a petrol if I hadn't been able to take the necessary precautions before hand.
Even though there are some costs that I'm not happy with about owning a diesel ATM, I think Jim I would still buy another.
Just my thoughts.

See if its the same BS in a month or 3 ,, oil price increased overnite , 1st thing to rise will be Unleaded.

No matter what price unleaded is diesel will always be the same in fuel cost at the end of the day, the gov need to keep it the same so they make exactly the same profit and one doesnt get away from the other (sheesh, did that make any sense).

Give me a diesel any day, after crossing a beach creek on Fraser in a petrol and stalling with the tide coming in quick i never want to do that again! Go the diesel.

Jim,

Agreed if you're vehicle stays close to home and / or you have trips to populated places....
So what if you're trip each year cost $6000 instead of $4000..
Just budget for it..
If you cant afford it get a better education and earn more money..
We do too much whinging,,, if we put our whinging effort into a doing effort we would have nothing to moan about..

Good stir Jim,

If motoring is expensive for you, diesel or petrol, why run a 4wd around town? You use Melbourne as an example of fuel prices, but there is less difference in the country, so your argument only holds for capital cities.

So I run my 74 beetle around the city at 8.5l/100k, and costs of about 30c per kilometre, including maintenance and depreciation. $3,000.00 for the year.

So if you have to run a petrol 4wd, why aren't you driving a petrol suzuki you bought for $2000.00 around town? What you save in fuel in 12 months would pay for it.

Obviously you have more money than you need and you like burning it on cars. :o)
So why complain about the difference in price when you can do something about it.

Let us know how you resolve your problem. I will be interested in hearing.

"why would you buy diesel under current conditions?"
Current being the key word Jim. Took you about 3 seconds to jump on the opportunity this time.
You continue to quote manufacturers figures. What is your experience/figures, outback on petrol/gas. All your posts suggest you never leave home.
Put a 2.5tonne van on the courier, which will also be fully loaded, and do a lap around the block visiting all the outback places you like. You will be looking for bowsers in between towns and the gas bottle will be a waste of space sitting there empty because there wont be any gas. Come back in 12 months with your fuel figures. Im sure most here would be interested.

Longer term I suspect the price of all petroleum products will trend higher; the consideration is to what extent there will be a ‘spread’ between ULP and diesel. I doubt the spread will get much worst from current levels even in the medium term. Equally there will always be a spread because ULP tends to be heavily discounted at times based on volume sold at the retail level, diesel isn’t for the same reason – far less volume sold at the retail level.

Having followed this site for a period of time it is clear that there are many other considerations that go into deciding a choice of vehicle. Fuel choice is only one of these considerations. I think that the other considerations will continue to outweigh short-term influences like the current spread between the two different fuel types.

Good luck out there……..

No one has as yet identified why there is such a big price difference between petrol & diesel. I suspect it is because the northern hemisphere is still building stocks for winter heating. Because the oil price has been fluctuating there has probably been a reluctance to have a large amount of advance oil ($) in storage tanks for winter use.

G`Day all,,,The information below is taken from a book I still have from my apprenticeship many years back. It shows the thermal efficiency between a petrol and diesel engine. Engine efficiency has improved greatly since this book was printed but I think it is still close to being correct in comparison, with the balance converted to power showing a much better figure.
Petrol Diesel
Heat lost to water jackets. 33 27
Heat loss to exhaust gases 33 29
Heat loss by radiation 7 6
Heat loss to overcome engine friction 5 5
Balance converted to power 22 33
100% 100%

If a diesel powered vehicle is so good, why do we continue to hear complaints from such owners about the price of fuel and the difference between unleaded and diesel. At least while the price of diesel remains high I (and others) will continue to receive lower priced unleaded. In fact the price has come down so much that I can now afford to run Premium Unleaded, keeps the fuel system cleaner with less polutants.

For camparison purposes let's look at 2 patrols, one diesel one petrol.

The petrol will use 50% more fuel - 18L/100 compared to 12L/100. The difference is far greater if towing or 4wding, especially in sand.

Diesel is about 30% more expensive $1.40 compared to $1.10 (the actual difference is 23c/L based on Singapore parity pricing) so assuming you travel 30K per year the diesel will cost $5040 & the petrol $5940

Serviving costs are almost identical. Comparing the first 4 services (10k, 20k, 30k, 40k) it costs a total of $30 more to service the diesel.

Initial purchase cost is the same - $52990 so in the first year you are $870 better off in the diesel.

The diesel has a greater touring range, performs better offroad & is better for towing due to peak torque being achieved much lower in the rev range 2000rpm compared to 3600rpm.

Generalising here a bit but any serious offroader or tourer will choose a diesel for reasons mentioned in mine & other posts. Perhaps Jim's 4by is used as a mums taxi & that's why he's happy with the petrol

Diesel vehicles? Totally unviable at the moment.
Submitted: Monday, Nov 24, 2008 at 20:51
_Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx

Well ... gotta agree with that. IMHO now that diesels are just as battery and computer dependant as a petrol - why bother.

As for the rest of the post:

A good diesel will always be a better load carrying engine ( unless designed for high speed performance ). It will also last longer under working conditions than a petrol. note: ... a good diesel.

Fuel availability - An 80l tank of dieso and two jerrys used to let me spend 3wks in a favourite fossicking area. Now in a petrol the same amount means I have to drive out for more fuel ( low range 4wd means bugger all fuel economy in a petrol ) ... and that costs me half a tank for the return trip.

Fuel prices ... methinks a better post would be ... how to ensure a realistic price for fuel. My first diesel was using fuel at 0.28 cents per litre ... when petrol was about 0.45 ( qld ). How and why the current disparagy is allowed is probably of more interest.

And I notice we are back on about LPG again ... great for unloaded , nip about town vehicles. Took an LPG courier to Melb from Tamworth last year ... was cheaper than fuel. On the way back, loaded up, only used half a tank of LPG ... coz it was cheaper and and more efficient using unleaded.

In general ... buy what suits your needs. In your case _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx ... As its only spitting distance from your state capital to the borders .... sheesh, an electric hybrid would probably work for you .... lololol

hey guys
what does your vehicle spend more time doing,touring,towing,remote places,needing emergency fuel from farmers

or, driving around town,taking kids to school,doing the grocery shopping,visiting friends,going to the footy(etc)you get the point.

i know mine spends more time around town and it is a diesel,though next time i buy a 4x4 will definently consider a petrol motor plus they are cheaper to buy service and get parts for as well as unleaded being 30% cheaper

regards
brentos

How about the current Holden Epica ad with the young girl doing the voice over saying that the diesel Epica is X% more fuel efficient than the Toyota Camry and still "goes like a Holden should" while failing to mention that diesel is 30% more expensive. Are buyers really that ignorant?

double crossing of the Simpson in June 08:

Nissan GQ Patrol TD: 13 litres per 100km
Mits Pajero Petrol: 26 litres per 100km

100% more fuel. Last time I checked Diesel is not 100% more in cost. The more you thrash your vehicle (off roading) the more sense diesel makes.

If you are a city slicker using the car to drive the kids to school then I would agree that Petrol is the way to go.

Bottom line is that there is no correct answer. The best vehicle is the one that suits your specific needs best. It's like looking at the range of hammers at a hardware store. There is not 'correct' hammer. They all do different jobs.

Having owned both in an 80, i can safely say the petrol was nicer to drive, had more power and was quieter. However, if anything went wrong with it, you had to be a wiz at electronics to get it going. It used 50% more petrol when towing, not 30%, so the tanks ran out that much faster. Lastly, if you look at the figures you mention, the diesel has more torque, which means it tows better up hills.
Andrew

what gets me on this one is the claims that unleaded is not available in the bush.
in 99 there was no unleaded at bamaga ( supply payment issue)but it was available at seisa,
not since we had to put avgas in at giles in 2002 (pre opal or whatever it is) have I ever had a probem getting unleaded fuel
someone mentioned not available on Gibb river road- news to me . could get unleaded at half a dozen places along that road when we were there.
I would also be surprised if about 30 percent or more of the vehicles that go to the cape each year and for that matter ,do the Canning ,arnt petrol driven vehicles.
its easy to get a petrol with 1000Km plus to 1300 km fuel range these days thru use of long range tanks some will do it on std tanks.
Agree benefits in diesel in really remote desert driving ie fuel range and fire safty.
unless I was in a situation where I regularly had to achieve in excess of 1000km between fuel points I would be happy with a petrol.
on the occassion of a once a year CSR or Hay river type trip I am quite happy to carry a few jerries to extend the fuel range.
cheers
Howard

I bought mine for the same price as a petrol,but it was owned by a vet,had a few xtra km's and one owner..I only hav the 66 litre tank still in it so fully laden going up and down hills and through a lot of river crossing's i'll pay the extra in fuel anyday and for piece of mind...

When i fix my vr 5.0 litre wagon,that ive had for donkeys year's now.Its on gas but the heater core just crapped out (ouch)The Hilux will only be used for going away and garaged and if you can do that (second car) i believe your on a winner..

Cheers

What I don't understand about Diesel prices is that the whole country runs on diesel, the trucks run diesel, Australia is a big country. If anything it should be the other way around, Petrol $1.40 and diesel $1.10. It has to change..

Wow!!! Some diesel owners are a tad sensitive, arent they ?
While most of the real plus & minus issues have been covered
some points border on the ridiculous. My main criteria is value
for money...so I drive 2 old Peugeots that cost bugger all, run on
very little petrol & last 300k. Cost per k?? Unbelievably low.
When I go on holiday I get the 2000 V6 Jack out of the shed,
hook up the C/t & go. Cost under $15 k...only uses 15L/100
towing., big, strong & reliable. Would I buy a new diesel???
What the hell for ??. I wouldnt buy a new petrol either. Why
lose half the money you paid in 5 years ?? The petrol/diesel
argument doesnt mean much when your biggest cost per
kilometre is Depreciation. Miserable ?? You betcha. I go on
holidays on the money I save not being perched up in a new
4WD. ....oldbaz..:))).

Geez I've seen less responses from "which tyre brand is best" and "which fridge is best" !!

As with this question and the two above the answer is that there is no correct answer! It's what suits your needs best.

Just my 2c worth.

Personally....I don't care. I have become immune to the cost factor.

I am stuck with a diesel vehicle and fuel up when I have to(even if I wince at the price...lol) and get on with life.

And I do at least one long outback trip each year. Just budget for it and away you go.


Cheers

I love it. Why do you run a 4wd if you never leave the city as others have posted. For my run around car in the city I use a turbo diesel golf which returns 4lt per 100 on the hwy. May I suggest instead of having a big 4wd that never leaves the city. Think of the ozone layer and all. Mmm to run around in a big city and be taller than all the rest. Yes I have a big Patrol. Diesel 4.2 Turbo on gas. Yes I do use this off road and I am currently on a 7 month trip around Aust. Would I go to Petrol. No way. I know the prices have changed recently but look at the prices at the cape in the last 4 months. $2.30 for Diesel at Seisa and $2.15 for Petrol. So much for your 30% difference here. Try 7% difference. The other thing to look at here is in a petrol you would have to fill up at least twice were I would only fill up once to get to a cheaper fuel station so when you take this into account then the costs start to add up quite quickly. Try tackling the crossings on the telegraph track in a petrol. I towed a guy across nolens because he wasn't confident in his petrol. What about when loaded to the gills and towing a camper, I bet your 30% more fuel for the petrol suddenly becomes more like 100%. If you use a 4wd like it is intended out in the bush and away from the cheap fuel of the major cities then diesel is definitely the way to go.

Good luck

Goona