Correct digits at the fuel bowser

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:08
ThreadID: 63965 Views:6425 Replies:10 FollowUps:20
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On occasions when I have filled jerrycans at my place of refuelling here in town, I have found that the bowser digits do not always correspond what I perceived to be correct fuel intake.

My interpretation of the fact is that a metal jerrycan holds 20 litres of liquid if filled to the bottom of the spout.

A while ago I approached the owner of the business and he dutifully had the fellas who service the bowsers around to test them(or so he says). He says that they said that the digits were working 100%

Last week I filled a jerry with 21.76 litres. Mentioned this to owner and he got a bit narked and said to talk to some one else about it as it wasn't his problem.

So I did and made contact with a fella in the Trade Measurement Section of Weights and Measures.

Here is his reply to my email:


I advise that we have received your complaint. Before we can investigate this matter we require the following information.

What is the business name and address of the trader?
What is the fuel type?
What was the price per litre and the total price paid for this transaction?
What is the number of the petrol pump dispenser?
What type of fuel containers did you use? Plastic or metal?
Are the containers marked with a capacity mark?
Did you fill the containers to the capacity mark or to the neck of the container?

I can advise that:
1) the metal 'army' type jerry cans will hold approx 22 litres if filled to the neck
2) the plastic jerry cans can soften and stretch with heat and age.
3) none of these containers are calibrated reference measures and their accuracy may be arguable.

You will be advised of the outcome of any investigation conducted by the Inspector.

We are unable to advise when the investigation will be completed.



So now I am going to measure the diesel into another jerry to see just how much there is really in the can before I take the matter further.


Cheers
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:14

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:14
Willie,

A sugugestion.

Weigh the Jerry empty, fill it with water to a marked line, weigh again. As water weighs 1 kg per litre, this should give you a reasonable starting point.

Cheers,

Jim.

AnswerID: 337882

Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:31

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:31
Jimbo I hope you realise the specific gravity of diesel in Aust is 0.82-0.845 at 15oC.

Matt.
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FollowupID: 605436

Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:34

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:34
oops submitted too early!

You dont want water in your fuel can...so just weigh, then empty into tank and subtract the now empty can and divide!

Cheers!

Matt.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:23

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:23
Gday Willem,
I used to put at least 21 litres of diesel into the steel ones.
My Rheem plastic jerries take 22 litres.
My willow water jerries take 23 litres.

And my expensive 80 litre water tank takes 75 litres :-((

Might want to do some more exact measuring before you take it further :-))

Cheers
phil
AnswerID: 337886

Follow Up By: Crackles - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:45

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:45
Agree Phil. All my Jerry's take up to 3L more, no doubt space for expansion.
Cheers Craig..................
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:47

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:47
Yes fuel containers are not an accurate measure. They allow for an expansion space and many people overfill. I doubt a petrol station will be much wrong as they have to calibrate by law fairly often. You can do the weight meaurement as above or another Easy way is to get accurate meauring jug and pump into that to check. My father had a 5ltr claibrated container he used to check his service station pumps with. Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - David T (SA) - Friday, Dec 05, 2008 at 17:00

Friday, Dec 05, 2008 at 17:00
Hi Willem
Bit late following up but I've been busy. My plastic water jerry cans hold about 25 litres which I found out the hard way. Was using them to fill my in vehicle 50L water tank which is between the back seat and the cargo barrier of my cruiser. Planned to put in 2 jerry cans without checking and then slowly fill the rest of the way. Before the second jerry was in I had water running all over the inside of the car.
Lesson learn was that the 50L tank is a bit less and the water jerry cans are a lot more. I don't think water and jerry cans are made to strict standards.
Cheers
Dave
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Reply By: nomadoz - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:52

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:52
Hi Willem

You should be able to get a rigid, glass or metal container that is calibrated, possible from a medical supplier

Cheers

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AnswerID: 337892

Follow Up By: nomadoz - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:54

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 17:54
Tony bit me to it

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Reply By: Flywest - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 18:29

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 18:29
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

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AnswerID: 337904

Reply By: Kiwi and Grenade - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:09

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:09
I use to get this a bit at work, pretty easy....jerrys will hold more than what they say....simple....most servo's (and I can only talk for a specific major one) that Im aware get them checked quite reguarly, we were every 8 weeks when the guys from Gilbarco would turn up, they would test the measurement, quality and octane ratings to give us updates.

we had one lot of army blokes in one day that swore their tank would only hold 90lt of diesel and yet managed to get 130lt in.
That was great fun cos I told them that if they were right and it could only hold the 90lt I would refund each of them that amount personally (and I wasnt even the boss....the boss just sat back and watched me....having a good chuckle, but would have come to the rescue if I needed it). I was so convinced they had it wrong. and they were. (thank goodness!!).

Anyway, we drained their tank and filled up alll the jerry's in the store and many other bottles that were laying around cos we ran out.....they had 130lt....! They caused htat much of a cofuffle over it that when their commanding officer found out what had happened they were forced to come back and apologise!!

If I was you Id be pouring it into a clear glass and seeing how clean it is.....did this through work one day too....but thats another story! (and a good fun one!)

Laura
AnswerID: 337911

Reply By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:19

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:19
LOL!, Willem, you silly old Twat!!!!.,hahahahaha.




Know how you feel mate!, i fill 20ltr plastic containers up with diesel every day, (4off), and often feel the same way, On a bad day i rip into the servo girls and tell them the calibrations are out on the diesel pump!, They always respond and say' we'll ring now and get it checked.' The next day they will inform me that the pump is 100% right. So i basically give up, but what does chit me is when you squeeze the trigger starting off and for a split second the dollar reel registers before fuel is activated, But thats another story..lol.

Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 337915

Reply By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:23

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:23
When i was with caltex the pump calibrator guy from gilbarco was really nice and told me they are set perfectly to 5 litres, and they are only allowed to be out by no more then 100millilitres at most. if pump has to be adjustered more then 300 millilitres the unit is replaced. this is either way. also too they a secured with aforementioned wire and lead lock for tamper proofing.

working on the f3 we had huge tanks full of diesel and petrol, about 2.5 million litres worth approx i could be out with my figures as i haven't being there for like 4 years or more, 9 petrol, 4 diesel, at dipping time it was a pain as two people one from petrol and diesel had to go and dip and check each oothers figures then corelate between the 2 sites. i have done that many times, depending on the dipping is checked with how much fuel went into the site and how much has gone out too big of a descrepency site was checked including pumps, cameras operators etc etc.

So unless they are cutting the fuel with excess garbage, then the only way you are getting ripped off is by the big names.

i do agree with the other guys get a proper certified measuring container they will have a crown on them to say they are certified accurate and then measure 20 litres into a container. also take note of temp of fuel and ambient room/ air temp, container temp etc etc.

sorry not picking on you just passing the knowledge i have gleened from years of asking questions??

yeap i am that annoying kid that ask's lot's of questions???
AnswerID: 337918

Follow Up By: Kiwi and Grenade - Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 06:46

Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 06:46
So your the guys that we'd compete against each silly season to see who sold the most fuel....!!lol....!!
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FollowupID: 605529

Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 07:08

Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 07:08
did you work south bound on the f3? if you did then you know me cause i did a couple of sunday bloaaady sundays! freaked out fridays and stuffed up saturdays alot!

we must of beat by quite a few dollars!!! then!!! :op)))
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FollowupID: 605533

Reply By: Axel [ the real one ] - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:53

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 19:53
Well Willem , Way way back I posted the same sort of delima about a local servo, twas a new car so no dints ect in tank blah blah blah , took 130lts into a 90lt tank , twas shouted down on the forum , all the same things, calibration /heat expansion ect ect , thing is that yes ALL those things are a variable , pumps DO BREAK DOWN and they are NOT infallible ,sealed or no seal .... for all the EXPERTS that replied above , pray tell us all why then the pumps HAVE to be checked and calibrated on a regular basis if there are NO problems ,, no different to any other machine.
AnswerID: 337920

Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 21:28

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 21:28
Use to be when I was working for Gilbarcos in the mid 60's, we
had to re: do the lead seal if we were working on the Calibrators,
or if we pulled the Calibrators out ect, we would have s/s Chirns
that had been stamped by Weights and Measures, we would fill the
Chirn up with fuel, knowing what it would hold in Litres in those days, and then check the Calibrators, if it was the correct measure
we would re seal and put the wire / lead with a date stamp on it,
we would fill out a report, that would go to Weights & Measures,
then pour the fuel back into the Underground Tank,
Weights & Measures would do Spot Checks, without any warning.
NOTE in those days the Calibrators where Mechanical, now they are
Electronic.
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FollowupID: 605487

Reply By: Member - Roger T (SA) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 20:33

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008 at 20:33
hi willem, don't take any notice of the detractors. i to lived in peterbourgh many years ago and terowie,yes i know the pace can be a bit fast at times. well it did back in the 60's.i went to high school there for 8 months,fast learner!turned 14 years and went back to work.love the art show every year. might see you there one day. roger.
AnswerID: 337938

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 07:41

Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 07:41
Regardless of all the above has anyone considered that in any container or fuel tank that you fill if you stop exactley at 10litres and look at the meter you can check if the pump is operating accordingly.

Example:
So simple 10 litres at @$1.09 is $10.90 regardless of how much the tank holds.

Ian
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FollowupID: 605536

Follow Up By: Moose - Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 14:46

Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 14:46
Ian
I think your argument is faulty. What the pump says it's doing and what it does may not be the same. As an example let's say it is 50% out. It will say it has pumped in 10 litres and charge you accordingly but in reality only 5 litres has entered the tank. Or 15 if the error is in your favour.
Cheers from the Moose
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FollowupID: 605572

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Thursday, Dec 04, 2008 at 15:23

Thursday, Dec 04, 2008 at 15:23
Moose
With respect your response is faulty as I presented it as simply a consideration not an argument and its a good way to allay early suspicians.
Nothing is perfect.

Ian
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FollowupID: 605761

Reply By: Member -Signman - Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 09:06

Wednesday, Dec 03, 2008 at 09:06
Just a suggestion here...maybe the 'mouldings' for the plastic and the 'stampings' for the metal ones are in fact 5 gallon?? Even if the capacity identification says 20 litres.
I know in most sheet timber, even though its marked (say) 1200x2400- it's actually 4 feet x 8 feet.
And if 1 gal = 4.54609 litres then it would be feasible that the 5 gal can could take about 22 1/2 litres??

AnswerID: 338000

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