Inverter question

Submitted: Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:46
ThreadID: 64178 Views:2725 Replies:3 FollowUps:10
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If you run a 150w inverter with a particular load say 100w,

compared to running a 1000w inverter with same load,

Will the larger inverter draw more battery power?

rgds

Ron
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:49

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:49
Essentially Ron , but its not cut and dried as various models and types have different standing (permanent consumption) and they also have different efficences.

Generally speakiing inverters are designed for best efficencty up near there maximum hence a 150w unit would typically draw less at 100w than a 1000w unit.

AnswerID: 339198

Follow Up By: Ron173 - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:54
G'Day Robin,

thanks for reply.

Always been a wonder. I have a small 150w which gets seldom used but good for 150w flood if setting up camp after dark, for a short period.

Been experimenting lately with it on fans, looking at run times and how long to recharge battery to same level etc.

I have another larger 1000w, and often wonder if i should carry it just incase or instead of small one, but guess not then.

Rgds

Ron
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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 20:35

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 20:35
Ron, a better solution would be to use either a 12V 55W flood or as I have done a 35W HID bulb in a flood light. I have it on an extendable pole about 20 feet high and it lights an area about 15m x 15m like daylight.
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Reply By: Warstar - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 17:39

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 17:39
Robin, don't run away. I have similar questions which always have intrigued me, while I am laying there late at night with the inverter turned on and not running anything. :)

I have a Sinegex S300 pure sine wave inverter, which I mostly use for the laptop. My 3 step procedure to use the inverter is
1. Disconnect the battery charger. (I figure there is little purpose in using the battery to charge the battery with all the inefficiency losses.)
2. Plug the lead from the inverter into the main 240V input socket on the side of the van. This thus means in theory all 240V pps and appliances are available. In practise the aircon, toaster, electric kettle, hair dryer, microwave etc etc are not used, but we have used a portable fan and one or two small items.)
3. Turn on the Inverter.

The inverter is rated 300W "continuous power output" and 400W "surge rating". I think I know what that means.
Further it states "max efficiency" 89%. Does this mean that for every bit if power drawn, the best one can expect is 89% back. Obviously it could be much less allowing for cable size, length etc.??

Further "no load current draw" is <0.35A. So when I have been having these thoughts in bed the battery is losing .35A each how long?

Boy oh boy am I out of my depth!!. Can you explain what it all means in terms of how we should use our inverters?
AnswerID: 339241

Follow Up By: Warstar - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 17:52

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 17:52
Ps The fan in question is rated at 50W. Does than mean it is drawing about 4 A before the efficiency question?
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 18:18

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 18:18
I dont plug mine into van, I just run it in through a fly screen, and plug directly into it, that way no-one can start anything too big.

Why run it at all with nothing on it?

I have ac and a honda, but dont want to run it all night, so experimenting with my inverter and a box fan of 55w. also for in black wolf on one nighters.

plan to run it this weekend on a timeswitch (240v plug in type) with box fan ,then set to run from 10pm to 3am, when it starts to cool anyway and everyone asleep.

maybe this will help

Ron
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:50

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:50
Hi Warstar,
Answers to your questions,

1. Smart move disconnecting the battery charger for the reasons you stated.

2. Yep, everything in the van is capable of being powered by the inverter. Do you own things such as a microwave with a "soft off" ? All these devices should be unplugged in the mode you use the inverter as they will add load to it and flatten your battery.

3. Cool.

In really simplistic terms an efficiency of 89% means an input of 100 Watts at 12v DC will give you an output of 89 Watts at 240V AC.

Lets say for the theory of this exercise the inverter does draw 0.35 Amps without a load.

From that we can assume the inverter is drawing 0.35Amps x 1hr = 0.35 Amp Hrs.

To extend that we can multiply it over a day, 0.35 x 24hrs = 8.4 Amp Hrs.

So if you leave the inverter permanently connected to a 100Ahr battery for 6 days without a load it will draw it down to 50% charge and the battery would be considered flat.

Me personally, when i switch off an inverter I remove the 12 volt supply that way it is no longer drawing from the battery.

Hope that helps,

Geoff
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Follow Up By: Warstar - Friday, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:18

Friday, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:18
Thanks Geoff,it helps a lot. It would be interesting to know what the actual efficiency is. Any way to find this out of which you know? Only one more thing.

In your final para you say "Me personally, when l switch off an inverter I remove the 12 volt supply that way it is no longer drawing from the battery. "

I had presumed that the inverter _Affordable_Storage_Drawers.aspx the 0.35Amps when it is switched on and not in use and nothing when switched off.
Is that incorrect? When you pull the 240V plug from an inverter it remains attached to the battery. Why does removing the 240V plug alter the situation? Are you merely taking a "belt and braces" approach?
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Dec 12, 2008 at 17:32

Friday, Dec 12, 2008 at 17:32
Hi Warstar,
Some Inverters have a switch on the 12volt side that disconnects them from the battery, some don't so I was taking the approach that if it isn't physically connected to the battery anymore its got to be off.

Your presumption is 100% correct if the unit has a switch on the 12 volt side.

A manufacturer may state in the manual with the inverter its efficiency, some do some don't.

It wouldn't be that hard to measure.

We'll use a 100W inverter as an example,
We could connect a 100w light globe to the 240V side and then measure the exact voltage and current on the 12 volt side.

Then all we do is multiply the voltage by the current to get watts.

From there it's simple high school maths of comparing the watts in wih the 100 watts out and you have the efficiency at full load.

Geoff
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Reply By: Warstar - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:13

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:13
Hi Ron173, I plug it into the mains inlet, (and wired it so I could) because I may wish to run the fan and some other stuff while I am playing with photographs on the computer, but I take your point.

I have a 20i Honda like you and run it when I need the aircon, but have found the fan good for most hot nights.

The point I was making was that some nights I would wake up and find it has cooled and I turn the fan off and jump back into bed and think "do I need to reach down and turn off the Inverter? (I have it mounted on the side of my bed) I have never really known what effect having it on or off does. At least now I know that there is a drain if I go back to sleep and leave it on!
AnswerID: 339289

Follow Up By: Warstar - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:15

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:15
Bye the way - you got me! What does "also for in black wolf on one nighters." refer to?
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:29

Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 at 21:29
I assume you do not know what a black wolf is then?

apologies thought it would have been well known on here, a black wolf is a brand of tent.

One nighters being exactly that, one night.

I shall simplify it............

What I should perhaps have said.....

When I only spend one night away and only take my black wolf tent, as opposed to my caravan, I can run a fan within the tent on an inverter.

Hope this clarifies a bit

Rgds

Ron
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Follow Up By: Warstar - Friday, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:04

Friday, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:04
Thanks Ron, That's nowhere near as interesting as the answer to the "one nighter" question as I had imagined.

Shows my age. Its a long time since I went camping in a tent! I used to love it too!!
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