Diesel Additives Which if any work??

Automatic Transmission Fluid? How did you come about adding this to your fuel? I have the old 1HZ tick too and wouldnt mind quitening it down a bit, but not sure i wanna add Tranny fluid.

Hi kroozer,
A couple of years ago, I met a bloke that was using vegetable oil from a take away shop as a bio fuel in his cruiser, 60 series. Besides smelling like a fish and chip shop it was quiet as, it had 700 000k's on the clock. He reckoned it made it heaps quieter and it ran smoother.
Anyway, I mentioned this to a few people and one was telling me a few years back the fuel companies dropped the level of sulfur out of the diesel. Something to do with meeting pollution laws or something. One bloke asked if I had replaced the 'O' ring at the top of the injector pump/accelerator arm, I told him I had just recently done this. apparently this common on the 1hdt, Diesel was freely flowing out of it. He explained to me that the sulfur acts as a lubricant. Kinda like two stroke additive does, and he suggested to add the ATF or Power Steering Oil, to the tank at fill up.
What is it, about $8 for a liter?, even cheap brands work, less than $2 a tank load.
Doesn't seem to hurt the old girl.
I've also heard a story where a bloke reuses his diesel engine oil. He filters it through 4 layers of stockings and put it back through the tank at about 5 or 6 liters at a time. Don't know how true that is.

[quote]I've also heard a story where a bloke reuses his diesel engine oil. He filters it through 4 layers of stockings and put it back through the tank at about 5 or 6 liters at a time. Don't know how true that is.[/quote]

Jon - I've researched this idea quite a bit and it can be done and quite successfully, indeed you can even buy automated systems that do just this....scrub your sump oil clean - with bypass and centrifugal filtering as well as magnetic separation...then blend it with the diesel fuel thru the diesel return line to your tank at no more than 5% blend.

With that said - I'd be VERY wary about just "filtering it thru 4 pairs of stockings"etc.

The sump oil has all sorts of wear metals, nitrates, sulphates and is oxidised to varying degrees not to mention lots of carbon (soot) which can act act as a mild form of grinding paste on injectors.

Quite simply, you don't want that junk going thru mechanical fuel pumps and wearing them out prematurely, not to mention reaming your injectors out in double quick time.

As stated the commercial systems have all sorts of filtration mechanisms like sub micron cotton wound filters, centrifugal filters, and magnetic filters as well as heaters to vapourise out any moisture and so on.......non of which you want mixed in with your fuel.

It is a little more scientific than just using 4 pairs of panty hose which wouldn't even catch the 25 micron debris your normal paper oil filter allows to pass.

Nothing at all wrong with scubbing your sump oil clean and blending it with diesel and burnng it (except in later model cars you might be breaching the emissions regs as a result).

Can't stress enough the importance of cleaning the oil to basically "as new standard" before blending it and burning it.

Some people use the frantz type toilet paper roll filter mechanisim as part of their oil bypass scrubbing mechanism and these work surprisingly well.

You can do all this and check results with used oil analysis before you blend it if you want - that way you KNOW whats going thru your injector pump etc...

Now SOME of the newer deisels run something called HEUI injectors (Hydraulic Electric Unit Injector) and 2 oil pumps - the normal oil pump that sends oil to all the journals and under piston crowns etc on turbo engines - and a second HPOP (High Pressure Oil Pump of the swashbuckle variety) that takes normal oil pressure sump oil (at say 70psi) & pressurises it to some 2000 psi - and sends that to the injectors - which use that hydraulic pressure to atomise te fuel at up to 20,000 psi.

Any wear metals particles & carbon soot, from the blended sump oil in your fuel, that goes thru injectors at 20,000 psi - basically acts like a cutting or grinding paste and will wear out your $800 a piece HUEI Injectors in diuble quick time. Try replacing 8 HUEI injectors in a V8 diesel @$800 a piece!

This is why it s pretty crucial to keep your fuel filtered and keep the wear metals especially but also the carbon soot levels as low as humanly possible - before you blend any sump oil with fuel to burn it.

Sorry to go into a long winded explanation but I'd hate to see anyone start blending their sump oil in a new hi tech vehicle like the new 200 series cruisers etc, after pouring it thru 4 pairs of panty hose.

Sometimes great ideas suffer for lack of all the detail and this could be one of those cases.

This is a great idea to share with others as long as we get the details right so that any downsides are eliminated as much as possible.

Cheers

Hi Flywest,
Totally agree with you. I don't think I would try the stocking idea at all.
There is always a right way and a wrong way to do things.Just a little bit of research goes along way.
Thankyou for your explanation Flywest

You are more than welcome Jon - burning the waste oil is a REALLY good idea when done right....and i don;t want to discourage others from having a go - just want to save them any potential downsides, from doing it wrong is all.

But to do it right is so expensive it kinda negates the benefit of burning the waste oil, almost.

http://www.clarustechnologies.com/manufacturing_services/oilcat/

This is a workshop waste oil recycler - that cleans and scrubs the oil before blending it with the diesel fuel in your tank at oil change time.






You can see the degree to which they go in cleaning the oil of any contaminants.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4869346.html

Link to a patent for automatic oil change on the run maintenance system.

http://www.interlubesystems.co.uk/downloads/other-rs.pdf

A company from the UK who supply such an automated system.

A classic case of where a good idea - by the time you do it properly ends up costing more than it saves unfortunately.

For the type of guy whos a home engineer tho - and understand the process, probably a different story...

I've seen a case where after market (frantz type) sub micron filtering (using toilet rolls) was added, along with a salvaged centrifugal filter from a early 90's landcruiser, and all hard plumbed by a engineer type in his garage for next to nothing and it works, but depends upon your ability to scrounge the right components for nothing and build up export oil chage manifolds and bend tube and flare ends and do all sort of fancy engineering and electronics, for little or no cost.

Guy has a 20 liter drum of new oil in the rear that constantly feeds the sump and at the same time cleaned used oil is drained off and returned to the fuel tank via the diesel return line to be burnt.

Only things he does at regular oil change intervals time is change the toilet rolls in his frantz filter, and clean his centrifuge filter out (this is a messy and dirty task), and make sure his 20 liter container of new oil never runs low...

I wish had that sorta time and ability to emulate the feat!

Cheers

Did some research on Bitron additives - to the point I went and looked at ther MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) to find out the active ingredients.

The basis of the entire Bitron range is Chlorinated Parrafin.

Chlorinated Parrafin is an amazing material - it has some unusual quaities that i saw demosntrated on a timken wear test machine.

It is used comminly in the tooling industry for cutting applications, because of these amazing qualities.

Most oils etc if a bearing runs hot shed away from the heat source (the failing bearing), thus bearings that start to fail seem to run to full failure very quickly with just grease or oil as a lubricant as they get hotter and hotter.

Chlorinated Parrafin is just the opposite - it is attracted to any source of heat, and rather than thinning and running away from the heat it actually runs too the heat source providing additional lubrication...this is why it is so good for cutting applications in the tooling industry where heat is generated from the friction of cutting.

This is the principle property that Bitron have identified and found application for in the motor oils / fuels indutry. Their MSDS typically show heavy concentrations of clor parrafin in the contents list of active ingredients.

Now..

I have reservatons about using Bitron myself in internal combustion engines. I asked at a US forum board BITOG (Bob is the Oil Guy) where various oil industry chemists etc hang out about why these properties of Chlor Parrafin arent used widely by the oil industry as an additive...and got this answer in a nutshell.

The chlorine component of Chlor Parrafin, when exposed to the byproducts of combustion that get past the rings into the sump are largely carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulphuric acid, water vapour and so on.

When large amounts of chlorine are added to the above equation in the form of Chlor Parrafin - you end up with hydrochloric acid - (like in your car battery) which ISN'T very good for internal combustion engines, due to advanced corrosion.

The good properties of Chlor Parrafin recognised in the tooling industry for 100+ years now IMHO - would be far better inside things like diffs and gear boxes etc where the byproducts of combustion arent present and where heat from wear could be used to get the chlor parrafin to proivide extra lubrication.

That was essentially the opinions I received back from those in the know.

This i reckon I'd try to keep away from using chlor parafin Bitron products in a fuel additive and as a sump oil additive and instead go for their diff and gear box oil etc additives products in preference.

Again - thats just my opinion - based on what i was told by supposed experts and it makes sense to me.

I'm not affiliated in any way with Bitron - in fact they probably hate me for pointing this kind of simple chemsirty out to potential purchasers of their product.

I reckon they are onto a god thing if they just wouldn't put it into fuel or sump oils.

They are a compay who wants to sell cheap chlor parafin at 1000's of % markups marketed under a clever name amnd make a profit and the facts are lots more will get sold if used for sump oil additive and fuel additive than is just used for diffs and gearboxes....

It's up to each to make up their own mind.

Theres an example in the uSA of a co that made and sold "Marvell Mystery Oil" - that when added to just abput ANY cars engine oil or fuel ran heaps better and the secret formula was patented and top secret for 50 years and it made squillions of $

Once laws were passed that MSDS had to be available, the secret was out of the bag - it was something like auto trans fluid mixed with kerosine or similar (i forget now), but the fats are mechanics swore bye it and buyers flocked to buy ti for 50 or more years - until the ingredients were no longer a secret and all the Mystery and Marvell went out of the product.

People will buy all sorts of "mechanics in a can" if you market it right!

Bitron I believe have some products that could be nothing short of fantastic and some that to my mind are a little questionable.

Everyone has to make up their own mind I guess.

I wouldn't be putting it in my sump or fuel unless I was doing used oil analysis so I could keep an eye on exactly what was happening inside that sump and inside that engine.

I reckon a new replacement 7.3 liter Power stroke Engione from the USA would cost at least 20 K from Navistar (international harvester), and I'm not prepared to pur hydrochoric acid down the oil filler for no one without some rock solid guarantees and warantys from the manufacturer.

What others do is up to them.

As far as diesel fuel additives go - one I see recomended a lot at Bitog forum is "Stanadyne".

I haven't used it myself - usually just a biocide to kill any algae is all I add.

Cheers

Hi Trainslux,
I quote 'I WOULD NOT use auto trans fluid in diesel, as a lubricant, as its not designed to be burnt'.
I've used ATF in my tank full of diesel for awhile now with no side effects. Maybe this has something to do with it's age? 17 years is along time in engine technology. Now I put this to you. Some Toyota diesels have a problem with the turbo's oil, leaking into the inlet, which causes the engine to continually run. A part from the fact that that you can't stop the motor and you have to stall the engine, it doesn't harm it.
As Flywest mentioned , 'in later diesels this could be a problem', Engine design has changed over the last few years. With this I have to agree, Modern diesels are difference to their predeceases.
Trainslux, You mention 2 stroke additive, Why would i add an additive that was designed for a petrol engine? just as you question, why would i add ATF as an additive that is not made to burn.

I quote, 'Just stuff ive found over the years that ive actually done, tried, tested, and worked'.
And the same can be said for my use of ATF.
I also would like to know more about 'Juse the biocide benefit is enough for me to use the ones I already mentioned'
Now according to the Wikipedia biocide has to do with 'a chemical substance capable of killing living organisms, usually in a selective way. Biocides are commonly used in medicine, agriculture, forestry, and in industry where they prevent the fouling of water and oil pipelines'.
Don't oil companies add this?

Unfortunately I don't know what vehicle you have tested your experience on, because you don't have a profile.
Please let me know what the make and model your 4WD is.


Cheers

I was replying to those who said to use atf, I suggest that if you want to add this to your diesel for what ever reason, then dont use atf, but a 2 stroke oil that is designed to burn clean.

I agree that there is no point in doing it in later model stuff, just suggesting that 2 stroke is better than atf.
There are lots of stories of those adding old waste oil, petrol, atf etc.

Those out at my old work used to use Jeta1, and found that 2 stroke was far better for lubricity than atf, and left less residue on the injectors of thier work vehicles.

If I was in a position of having to use jeta1 for fuel, then that is what I would use.

Re oil leaking into the induction side of the diesels from turbos, the problem here is that instead of metered amounts of fuel being added, thus giving the required power, you dont have any control over the extra combustable material coming into the cyld.
So with fuel/ oil laden air charge entering the cyld, it combusts, and gives the run away that you mention.

re biocide,
ive no idea what oil companies do re adding stuff to their fuel, and tanks, but have heard alot of stories where people have been caught before.
re alge lives grows, in the layer between fuel, and water.
so if you fill up at a servo that has water in their tanks, and they have alge in it, you add it to your tank.
If you have any water in it, it will grow, and block your system.

Making sure you dont have any water in your tank, is a good start.
Draining tank drain, and also adding the additives I mentioned before like chemtec, diesel go, toyota additvive, nulon diesel additvie, have not only biocide to kill the alge, but also enables the water to be mixed with the diesel, and burnt, leaving no water in the tank.
Keeping the tank full, to reduce condensation helps too.

I personally used acetone in under 1% concentration when I first got my 2.8 lux after checking the tank for any water.
This ensured that any moisture in the tank was removed.
I have also used acetone in petty as well, and on the older carby cars, it works very well, both in acting as a wetting agent for the fuel, so you get better misting of the fuel droplets, ie cuts the surface tension down, so they spray into a finer mist, which gives better smoother running.
It also cleans well, both in petty, and diesel.

Just google for more info.

You can use metho in petty to remove the water from the tank, it enables the water to mix with the petty, but if you use metho with diesel, it will seperate (esterfication??) the diesel into 2 different, distinctive layers of goodness knows what.
with my old ford, I added 1lt of metho to the tank after winter to combat any moisture in the tank.

I was a mechanic for a few years, and used the diesel go, nulon, chemtec, and toyota stuff all at different times.
Some customers put me onto these, they swore by it, as I was a diesel go man, so I investigated it further over time, both on thier cars, and those who had fuel problems due to poor fuel handling, or poor supplied fuel where they got it from.
They all did what they claimed to do.

Having run all of the affore mentioned additives in my lux, I am happy with either chemtec, toyota, nulon, bp diesel go, and acetone, as they all give a bit more power, ie bugger all, but its there, reduce engine noise, and better milage.

I have shared my findings with mates, who have also been happy with the results.

But there is no substitute for good maintainence, its not a miracle cure all.

I hope that answers your questions.
not trying to teach you to suck eggs here, just wanted to try and be as clear as I could.

cheers

Trains

Hi Trainslux,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry I've not replied sooner. Been away over night. The Pacific H/Way between Grafton and the Byron turn off is crowded. Bumper to Bumper. We travel this each Christmas to see the Outlaws, Seems to be busier this year.
Trainslux you've mentioned a few different additives, I shall try these and see what results I get. I appreciate your in depth reply.
And your dead right about a good maintained vehicle. Many years ago my father,'who was a diesel mechanic by Trade', and my self ran a two taxi business in a small country. He taught me a great deal about looking after your vehicles.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll give them a try.