Dick-head professor in the USA

Submitted: Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:14
ThreadID: 64719 Views:2530 Replies:7 FollowUps:8
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The article below is good for a real laugh. The professor compares nuclear, tide, wavepower and geothermal fuels with methanol blends for powering motor vehicles !!!! Surely this was meant to be published on the 1st of April.

From the Kansas Star

Maybe it's good that the US will not meet its self-imposed ethanol mandate for 2022. According to a new study by Mark Jacobson, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Stanford, ethanol - whether derived from corn or cellulose - is the worst form of renewable energy. Ethanol's numbers were put to the test against "solar-photovoltaics (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology." The energy types were rated on their ability to power "new-technology vehicles" (plug-ins, flex-fuel ICEs and fuel cell vehicles). Ethanol lost. Big.

The study, called "Review of solutions to global warming, air pollution, and energy security," found that wind-powered battery electric vehicles and wind-powered hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are the cleanest ways to drive. The big problem, naturally, is that it's awfully expensive to drive a wind-powered BEV today. Still, the study is already having an effect. The Kansas City Star has already said that, "It's time to ban all federal subsidies for this wasteful taxpayer investment in Midwest farmers and this inefficient use of corn to power vehicles across America."
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Reply By: troopyman - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:26

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:26
There are people producing electric cars in australia now . Why dont the big car companys . Handouts from government and kick backs from oil companys . Its a joke . I am ready for the old , but electric cars are a byproduct of coal which is a green house polluter . Put solar panells on your roof and recharge during the day then . Obviously electric cars are suited for daily suburban commuting . It is well known that the average trip by people in the suburbs is less than 30 klms . cheers .
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:34

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:34
Troopyman, you are right of course. It's a matter of 'horses for courses' There will probably be a place for most forms of energy to power our 4x4's in the 23 century :-)) but they certainly ain't viable yet. Now if that professor had done some real research into the here and now available fuels it would be a far more worth while project. Wonder if anyone gave him a research grant and if so who ?

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Follow Up By: Max - Sydney - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 20:31

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 20:31
Yair I was gunna buy an electric car but couldn't get a long enough lead to get beyond the end of the street. Even then it kept getting all tangled up - just like all the arguments about solr/wind/tidal/hot air/sugar cane/tidal ....

Happy New Year!
Max
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Reply By: Member - John - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 09:00

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 09:00
Kiwi, The way I read it is what the Prof is saying is the right thing, ethanol produced from corn etc is not good economics etc. I tend to agree, producing food stuffs to power cars is false economy.

Think he is correct, not a dick-head. Just my two cents worth.
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 09:46

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 09:46
I agree with John - ethanol is not good economics. It uses energy to plough, plant and harvest the crop for ethanol and is reducung the worlds food supply for human consumption. the WHO has already expressed concern about the increasing use of arable lands to produce crops for fuel. World food production for human consumption has actually declined since 2001 - hence higher and higher prices for grains and other agricultural products. Another question that needs to be in the equation - is it ethical to use good arable lands for fuel production leading to higher food prices and shortages and ultimately famine and starvation (in long term).
For short commuting trips there can be nothing cleaner and greener than battery powered vehicles that are recharged by solar or wind power.
However I dont have aproblem with ethanol if its produced as a by product of food production (eg sugar)
I cant see where the Professor is wrong at all.
Just MHO
Just my 2.2 cents worth (including GST)
Cheers,
GPM
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:00

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:00
John & Saharaman,

My argument is with his methodology in comparing the (IMHO) the incomparable eg. nuclear, geothermal etc. with methanol production. It's just plain bad science. Actually, because of the HUGE tax breaks that the oil companies enjoy I would say that methanol is probably cheaper then mineral oil production. (tax deductions for field depletion, exploration, cost of transport, mtc. etc. etc.) How about asking a sugar farmer from QL if they would like to see methanol (or ethanol) used as fuel for vehicles. Heaps more jobs and industry spin offs for the local communities. It would do wonders for the local (and national) economy.

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Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 11:32

Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 11:32
And then you will start paying through your nose for food.
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:24

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:24
The Professor is correct in that ethanol not sustainable, the labour and fossil fuel needed to produce a small amount of Ethanol and the fact that good land is being used to produce fuel instead of fuel while people are starving is criminal..there are better ways!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:26

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:26
Sorry!! I meant to read,,,,,,,,,, Fuel instead of Food...
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 16:10

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 16:10
Who here knows how much pollulting energy is used in the production of solar cells ???

How come there are no solar cell factories that obtain all their energy from solar cells ???
AnswerID: 342251

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 16:14

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 16:14
Yeh, I tried to power my rig with this new wind technology, but the blurry wind turbine broke off when I drove under the 1st overpass.
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 20:46

Friday, Jan 02, 2009 at 20:46
I thought you were talking about eating baked beans LOL
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Reply By: JR - Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 09:48

Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 09:48
I think the largest polution you produce with a car is when you make it
Old cars, can be driven for an absurdly long time before you generate the same pollution as is required to replace it with a new one

Perhaps we should restrict the production of new cars????

Seriously ethanol is not thought of as a solution to global warming, just a stop gap measure which is better than the alternative. Theres no other option which can be rolled out into the marketplace with existing networks and vehicles

Keep in mind the US massively subsidizes their farmers anyway, they even pay them to NOT plant crops, so with this in mind its not costing them much extra
JR
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Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 09:54

Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 09:54
Spot on JR.
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Reply By: _gmd_pps - Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 12:22

Saturday, Jan 03, 2009 at 12:22
Are you trying to be funny ?
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