Dtronic chip or 3" exhaust or Both????

G'day all,

I am having a dilemma with my 3lt Navara as whether to put a chip in it or change the exhaust and dump pipe to 3" to get rid of my turbo lag and get the spool in the turbo to come in earlier. Would a dyno tune do this. If so is there anyone in the south eastern suburbs of Melbourne that would be recommended.

cheers,

Lance
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Reply By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 17:42

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 17:42
Howdy Lance,

if you're putting the chip on, then you would be well advised to fit the larger exhaust system and I'd also give very careful consideration to fitting an EGT guage as well. The extra fuel being dumped in causes a hell of a lot more heat and you can get into the death zone real quick. (I have all three on the Patrol)

Having towed with the Navara extensively before the patrol, do you find it that underpowered?

Cheers Mick.
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Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 17:54

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 17:54
G'day Mick,

More so on the towing side up steep inclines, then i have had problems just taking off in 2nd gear after slowing down at a set of lights on hill, its just a bit sluggish before the turbo kicks in, whether just the exhaust would make the difference, i don't know.

cheers,

Lance
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Follow Up By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 18:25

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 18:25
Yep see your point Lance. If you go the chip, you'll generate a whole stack more heat when towing, particularly in hill climbs. I know the Navara 3L is considered a fairly reliable donk compared to the earlier Patrol 3L but I'd go the full suite if you go down that path. The 16K I spent after towing with the Pootrol has made me a bit gun-shy.

Cheers Mick
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 17:56

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 17:56
Yes do all 3 Ive done them on my TD cruiser and it gets up and goes much better HP went fom low 140's to 165.8.

You cant tune a Dtronic chip they are set for the model at the factory and are not adjustable.

I actually rang them and thats what they said



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Reply By: Richard W (NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 19:53

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 19:53
Lance,

I had a 3" mandrel bent exhaust installed and installed a Dtronic myself.
Bigger exhaust increased mid range performance and D'tronic increased the low end performance.
AnswerID: 343121

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 21:29

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 21:29
Give Ross an MM. He has done a fair bit with his Nav including the bigger pipe, and the Chip. But I think for the dollars of both you can get better results elsewhere. I will let him explain as he was the one speaking witht he turbo guru up our way.

Cheers, Trevor.
AnswerID: 343147

Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 21:07

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 21:07
Trevor,

I spoke to Ross about 12 months ago and he went a dpchip and 2.5" exhaust, has anything changed since then, i thought he was pretty happy with his mods. I will MM him for more info.

cheers,

Lance
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 21:50

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 21:50
Hi Lance,

I am sure he his still pretty happy with it (and he should be, it goes good I reckon) but he has seen what can be achieved and why not have it all hey. He has a dyno on his rig pics of his car and the one he would like to have too. Check them out to see the difference. Get the turbo done at the same time and have figures to make modified 4.2 owners jealous. Why not go the whole hog?
Thinking on it, I recall there being a little difference in price though. Didn't seem to be that much dearer though?????

Cheers, Trevor.
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Reply By: cackles - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 21:48

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 21:48
just had a dtronic fitted to our patrol 3L, was sposed to get the exhaust done too but the bloke was shut over xmas.

It was friend who did the chip and tuned it all on the dyno, his advice was the exhaust will improve hill towing but is pretty useless without the chip as the standard computer won't allow it.
Having said that he agrees that you do need the exhaust for airflow so sounds to me like you really need the two.

cackles
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Reply By: Brian B - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 23:27

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 23:27
We have a 2004 3lt TD Navara. We fitted the larger exhaust first and then the dTronic chip. Prior to to the chip we had problems in loose sand below 2000 rpm. After the chip the vehicle behaved like a diesel should and we had so much bottom end torque. We feel safer in soft sand and last year took the vehicle from perth to NT, Cape Yorl (via Savannah way), then to Townsville and via Allice Springs to Kalgoorlie in 3 months, and the car didnt miss a bit in river crossings,sand mud etc.

Best money spent
AnswerID: 343162

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 23:45

Wednesday, Jan 07, 2009 at 23:45
Lance, my previous vehicle was a 2005 Hilux TD. I fitted both a power chip and a 2 3/4 inch Mandrel Exhaust to it. Made an enormous difference. When loaded and towing the CT, it was very noticeable and made a difference of one gear when towing uphill.

I had a dyno done before and after the chip and apart from the 25% increase in power, the power kicked in much lower in the rev range.

I did not do another dyno after the exhaust, but believe it added further improvement.

I believe both mods are worthwhile, but if I did only one, it would be the power chip.
AnswerID: 343164

Reply By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 14:19

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 14:19
Thanks guys for all your responses, looks like the chip and the mandrel exhaust are the go. Have to get everything right before the Kimberley trip in June.

cheers,

Lance
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Reply By: Member - Marco T (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 17:51

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 17:51
G'day lance,

My dad got the exhaust and d-tronic chip fitted to his 3L Nav and it thunders up hills now. He tows a 1.8 ton van and has no problems.

M


AnswerID: 343238

Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 18:06

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 18:06
G'day Marco,

What size is the exhaust, as i have spoken 3 different 4x4 exhaust mobs and they have all told me that 2.5" inch is better because the 3lt turbos need a little back pressure. Also where and who did the job.

cheers,

Lance
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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 19:55

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 19:55
Lance, Beaudesert Exhausts did mine and they recommended 2 3/4 for that reason. I took there advice and was happy with the result.

I think the mandrel bends are more important than the size.

Norm C
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Follow Up By: Member - Marco T (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 20:34

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 20:34
Lance,

He got a 2.5" exhaust. He got it done in Queensland somewhere while on the road.

Cheers

Marco
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Follow Up By: Thermoguard Instruments - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 12:44

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 12:44
Hi Lance,

I'd like one of these exhaust places to come up with some proper technical evidence that "The 3L turbos need a little back pressure". What a load of cobblers.

Turbo diesels do not 'need' any back pressure. All back pressure does is reduce the potential energy that is available to drive the exhaust gas turbine. This energy is related to the difference in both pressure and temperature of the exhaust gas in and out of the turbine. The cooler and lower the pressure at the outlet the better.

Now about exhaust sizes, let's suppose a 3" system is the optimum size for a typical 4.2L TD that may well have been fuelled-up or chipped. This seems to be the general consensus.

If this is agreed, then if it follows that a 3" system on a 3L is probably a bit of overkill. The capacity ratio is 3.0/4.2 = 0.71.

The cross-sectional area of a pipe (let's assume all sizes are inside diameter) is proportional to the square of the pipe radius. So, a 3" pipe is about 7.07 sq in., a 2.75" pipe is about 5.94 sq in and a 2.5" pipe is about 4.91 sq in.

The pipe area ratios are: 2.5": 4.91/7.07 = 0.69; 2.75": 5.94/7.07 = 0.84. Therefore a 2.5" system on a 3L is a little less than equivalent to a 3" on a 4.2 and a 2.75" system is a bit more than equivalent. Given that a 3L will typically have a higher specific output (kW/L & Nm/L), the 2.75" would seem the best choice.

All that said, I doubt many would detect any difference between equally well-made 2.5, 2.75 or 3" systems in 'blind' testing, so whatever you can get for the best price would probably do quite well. The quality and restriction of the chosen muffler will probably have a lot more influence on the overall result than the actual pipe size!

Also, people seem to get so obsessed with "mandrel bent". Unless the system is really contorted, I doubt the small extra restriction of a few conventional exhaust bends would have a lot of overall effect. If I could get a conventionally bent 3" system for significantly less than a 2.75" mandrel bent system that's what I'd go for.

Of course, Land Rover owners don't need to worry about any of this. Their 2.5L TDs come standard with properly-sized (65mm = 2.56") systems... And should you have trouble eating any STANDARD Japanese 4WD up to and including 4.2Ls, just cut-out the main muffler and replace it with a bit of straight pipe - they're still quiet enough. (And, Yes Virginia, this last paragraph IS bait...)

Ian
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Follow Up By: Member - Lance S (VIC) - Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:21

Sunday, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:21
Ian,

Thanks for your explanation of the exhaust systems. I will do a bit more shopping around before making a decision.

cheers,

Lance
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Reply By: sfletch - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 18:06

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 18:06
I have a DP Chip and was also thinking of adding exhaust,any of you guys have problems with overheating ?
AnswerID: 343239

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 20:10

Thursday, Jan 08, 2009 at 20:10
While you are at it get a higher flow K&N Filter too. Thats what I have done chip exhaust dyno and filter - amazing improvement
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Reply By: Wazza - (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 22:44

Saturday, Jan 10, 2009 at 22:44
These guys rebuilt my pump and dyno tuned the Factory TD in my 93 Cruiser. Has been running great and recommend them as a happy customer. Definately know their stuff.

http://www.agdiesel.com.au/
AnswerID: 343634

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