Which Gear 2.........................................................

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:33
ThreadID: 65132 Views:3084 Replies:18 FollowUps:23
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Post 65128 reminded me of something few people think of.

Hypothetical:

You are driving up a steep dry gravel/wet gravel slope and your 4by loses traction.You lock up your brakes and yank the handbrake on.

You are forced to go back down all the way to the bottom. You cannot turn around as the angle is too steep.

Which gear do you use?





Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:36

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:36
I'll be the dummy ... reverse ... low range if available. Read it carefully to see where the catch was, but could not find it.

:)

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:46

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:46
Well Jack,

I'll be the mug as well. I couldn't find the snag either, unless the young bloke is talking about the theory with Auto's of reversing down with the transmission in first low.

Cheers,

Jim.

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Follow Up By: handy - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:46

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:46
reverse,low range and keep your foot away from clutch
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:44

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:44
Good on ya Jack

2nd Prize One week in the Great Sandy Desert (ref: see Equinox reply below)

Handy...Consolation Second Prize. One weeks holiday with with Hairy at Birthday Gap


PS Was not thinking along the lines of Auto, Tracktion Control or other poofter trucks....LOL


Cheers
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Follow Up By: handy - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:47

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:47
am i allowed to opened or unopened alchol with me?? lol
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Reply By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:40

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:40
Hiya Will


Ok as a newbie,i'll giv a stab,One of those key starts in reverse ????

Unless you need to winch down,to be safe ( 4by loses traction)

Cheers
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Reply By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:45

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:45
I know.

A plain Shirt, light brown shorts and good boots to match.
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:47

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:47
And a hat ;-)
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:53

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:53
I can see yer city folk
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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:18

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:18
And make sure that your socks never, ever clash with your snatchem strap colour. That can be a 4wd fashion disaster.
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:06

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:06
When I first got into four wheel driving I thought a snatch strap was some sort of exotic off-road chastity belt !!

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

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Reply By: troopyman - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:35

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:35
chains
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Follow Up By: troopyman - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:41

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:41
oh , and BTW never touch the brakes . Steering is good when reversing down a slippery slope .
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Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:00

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:00
Well, depending on steepness/slipperyness of yer "hypothetical" slope, I'm thinkin' it may be time to get out yer
recovery gear;-)))

Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Reply By: Sea-Dog - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:16

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:16
For one I would not be locking the brakes up nor locking the handbrake at any stage... that would make you nothing more than a passenger in an out of control vehicle.

Even if you could not stop the slide you could direct the vehicle so by the time you get to the bottom you could possibly get an angle going to be able to maneouvre and use low 1st or 2nd to drive forwards back up.

Failing all attempts to get traction you are doing a recovery with what you have available... a strap would be quickest attached to a vehicle at top but a winch would be slower but equally effective.

my 2 cents worth anyway.
AnswerID: 344390

Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:28

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:28
One of the basics in 4WDriving is what to do when you are stuck trying to go up an incline - and it definitely does include locking the brakes and handbrake, or risk being a passenger to an out of control vehicle.

Might want to check that one out Sea-Dog ;-)
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Follow Up By: Sea-Dog - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:32

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:32
If you are not actually moving then locking the brakes etc YES.. If you have already lost traction as stated in the original post you are already moving and locking your wheels is going to do nothing except hand over your car and your life to the gods of good fortune.

I know where you are coming from.. but it only refers to if the car is stopped at the time.. hold the brakes, set the handbrake and assess the situation..

When the car is in motion and you lock them up you are a goner!

Happy to argue that point to the end
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Reply By: Krakka - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:17

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:17
reverse, low range.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:46

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:46
Krakka

Third Prize 3 days in the Great Sandy Desert (Ref: see post by Jack above)



Cheers
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Reply By: sweetwill - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:13

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:13
g,day
I would try not to jack knife the trailer on the way down, cheers bill.
AnswerID: 344399

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:28

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:28
As vehicles change, we have to alter what we do. In the past when manual diesels were the go, we'd do a classical key stall start with reverse/low range (assuming the vehicle was stationary). But with more autos and petrol 4wds and with the fancy electronic decent control etc, you really have to know your own vehicle.

Many of the modern petrol vehicles will rev to a couple of thousand RPM on startup, so a conventional key stall start is a scary prospect, and you have to keep the motor idling.

And engine braking is becoming a thing of the past, so best of luck to those who say they can reverse slowly backwards without using the brakes.
AnswerID: 344403

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:08

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:08
Valid points Phil.

After 4 years of having an auto I'm now back in a Petrol manual. Got stuck last year and had to do a reverse key start, working only from memory. As you said, the petrols do rev to about 2000 rpm on start up which causes a scary lunge but then back to idle and all is well. Took three goes before I got it right.

Now as a matter of course, when I'm bush I practice the reverse key start so that I'm comfortable with it when I need it.

Cheers,

Jim.



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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:41

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:41
Gday Jim,
When I was teaching this stuff, it was always interesting to see what happens in many different vehicles. Its nice to have a single, simple answer, but unfortunately, thats not possible.
We need to know our vehicles and practice as you have done.
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Reply By: Fiona & Paul - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:55

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:55
I'm going to learn something valuable here for sure:

Sure I only have a Forester and don't go where you heavies go, but, from what I have been reading about lots of stuff, because I do like to get about and learn the 4ED stuff I would say this;

Assuming I have stopped (completely albeit momentarilly) without breaking anything I would tend to do nothing and let it creep back down the slope, without doing anything - that would probably also break something, and I don't know what to do so I'm reacting automatically without knowing what I am supposed to be doing.

I can't suggest another option because I have just made a choice.
Paul H
OZ Downunder

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Follow Up By: Fiona & Paul - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 23:45

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 23:45
Thanks Willem I had a good look through tese replies and I learnt lots of useful things about what I've been doing right and wrong.

Guess I've been taking the Forrester to places where it's not supposed to go. I should never be in that situation really, but if I did then now I'll know what to do - I would have totally screwed up if I'd used my own remedy.

Thanks again!
Paul H
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Reply By: x - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:13

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:13
The satphone?

The Porta loo?

Seriously, I'd leave it idling in N (to maintain brake power).
AnswerID: 344414

Reply By: briann532 - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:33

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:33
One would assume as it was steep and traction was lost you would already be in low range. (unless you drive one of those pretend 4b's!!!)
A simple reverse gear key start would see you safely back down.
Neutral may keep power to your brakes, but "angel gear" as its commonly know offers no engine braking or drive traction.

briann
AnswerID: 344419

Reply By: Member - Axle - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:12

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:12
Howdy Willem!, You know how to get an array of opinions on a topic! lol. If its as steep as your making out, and happened to be wet clay, Then" its all over red rover" Forget everything and HANG ON!, caus your going to the bottom of whatever,.. wether you like it or not..hahaha , But i'm sure you have plenty of stories on incidents like that..lol.



Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 344422

Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:21

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:21
G'day Axle

Yup......Lost traction just at crest of hill in oof track situation. Slammed into reverse and idling back.....and into a tree ! Mate down below says nothing.......geeeeeezzzzz.

Now what?


SWMBO gets high pitched voice working " I'm getting out"!~!~!.....opens door.....Oh my goodness!!...stays inside....closes door.

Me.....Calm down....calm down....take a deep breath.

SWMBO ......"Wot yer gunna do"?

Me...."Close yer eyes"!

Select 2nd High Range. Rev engine to almost valve bounce.....drop clutch and turn wheel to the right hard lock!!!

Much dust, stones, foliage, muffled screams(lol)...but we made it..... nose down the hill....phew!!!!!.

I was as popular as rats under the house for a while....LOL


Cheers
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Reply By: equinox - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:41

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 13:41
Vehicle is stopped. Engine Off.

Low Range.

Reverse.

Handbrake off.

Footbrake off.

Start Engine.

DO NOT TOUCH BRAKE

DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE

Ease down hill.

Have Beer.

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

<<- CSR

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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:40

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:40
Well done Equinox!!!!


First Prize! In 2 weeks in the Great Sandy Desert!





Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:02

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:02
Yep Allan, that is the recognised way...BUT.....
Willem did say on a steep dry/wet gravel slope.

To me, that would be like stopping on marbles. If the vehicle starts to gain momentum there quickly comes a point where low range would be acting like brakes and as soon as that happens your've lost steerage and control.

Being very quick on the clutch would help but then you would basically be in neutral and coming down even faster than you would like.

Still thinking about it.

Cheers.....Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Member -Dodger - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:20

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:20
And you forgot to mention.
Turn the AIR-CON OFF this stops acceleration on idle up for the air con.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Follow Up By: Member - bushfix - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 16:45

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 16:45
re DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE

I would, and have used it in that situation to regain lost traction.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:01

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 20:01
Lionel,

Surely if you went back slightly from the moment you lost traction, you "should" regain it.

Dodger,
Very good point.

Bushfix,
You are right of course, every situation is different.


Besides...I still want my prize lol..

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:09

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:09
So Willem do you have a definitive "hypothetical" answer.

I know what I did in the real world, with the trailer on the back too. I got out of it without bending anything.

The only heart flutter was when I thought, on the third run at this hill, that I may not actually be able to get up. The thought of a 50km backtrack with a displeased Mrs so late in the day was not something to be taken lightly.

Duncs
AnswerID: 344437

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:38

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:38
Reverse-high range, play the hand brake a little.

Cheers.....Lionel.
AnswerID: 344443

Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:48

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:48
Lionel


Go stand in the corner and put orange witches hat on head...hahahahahaha




Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:07

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 15:07
AHGGGGG.....ya ol' buzzard.

Ya spending too much time in the bloody desert.....hehehe.

Just refer to my follow-up to Equnox, answer that one then 'smarty pants'.


Cheers.....Lionel.
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:46

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:46
Once .... and only because I deemed the terrain suitable .... steep hill, smooth and grassy with no obstacles apart from the gradient .... I reversed a diesel 4x4 in low range whilst in 1st gear.

Lost traction on climb and started sliding backwards ... took foot off accelerator to brake and change gears and found vehicle slowed satisfactorily to gain purchase and continue up - with some deft throttle work.

Was a short lived moment before backwards descent started again. Simply feathered the throttle all the way to the bottom ...

Against all the rules touted these days and most of back then but worked fine on that occaision and in the particular vehicle.
AnswerID: 344445

Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 16:23

Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 at 16:23
Several years ago when working on Pipe Line Easements, I had to
gain access via a Banana Plantation, it had been raining and the
Red Soil Track was greasy,I had just taken delivery of a new Short
Wheel Base Troopy, any way I started down this track between the
Banana Trees and the vehicle started to slide, now this track was
fairly steep, and at the end of it was a drop off, about 20metres
and to the left was a sharp corner which followed parallel to
the cliff edge, being inexperienced with skating in a 4x4 I pulled
the hand brake on and allso jumped on the brake pedal, it didn't do
a thing to stop the momentum, you only have a few seconds to
react to the situation, in hindsight I could have ploughed into the
Banana Trees to stop the truck, but I slid down the track and as I
got to the sharp left hand corner I released the hand brake and
accelerated around the corner, and gained control, after I finished
the inspection I got towed out with a Drott, and had a Liquid Lunch.

Cheers
Daza
AnswerID: 344462

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