"Personal" profiles on Facebook etc

Submitted: Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:23
ThreadID: 65628 Views:3216 Replies:4 FollowUps:28
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For those of you who participate on various social networking sites (other than Exploroz of course) Your profile is Facebook's fortune

Eventually there has to be a payback...
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Reply By: Member - John G- Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:52

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:52
Good call John,

And a timely reminder that we should not think that the world is made up of good guys such as we members of Exploroz. Such sites are bit like marriage - not to be entered into lightly!

Cheers
John
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Reply By: timglobal - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:52

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:52
You mean companies that provide a service hope to gain financially from it?

Surely not!
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Follow Up By: Member - John G- Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:03

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:03
G'day Tim

This Thread has real Monday morning potential!

For me it is the non-disclosed motivations and opportunties that arise and that are taken. We just need to be aware that once we put personal info onto the net, then we can become a target. Nothing might happen to 99.9% of us, but the risk is created.

Cheers
John
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:28

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:28
Hey John,

I think you misunderstand the article and what its saying. This isn't about selling your details to a "Nigerian Scam" fraudster. Facebook is considered excellent in its privacy options. This is a way they can monetise their service to enable it to continue.

Facebook (and other reputable sites) are very clear about all motivations and opportunities are quite clearly outlined from my experience.

To draw a parallel very close to home, Exploroz has paid membership, a shop and advertising which are all excellent. But with sadly questionable user terms in my opinion.

Have you read the Exploroz terms of use?

Specifically the user licence section. It's actually one of the more restrictive (for the user) and potentially beneficial (for the site owner) that I've come across.

To paraphrase: Anything you put on this site (pictures or words) can be used or sold on by the site owners to anyone, anywhere in the world, in perpetuity, with no financial or other recourse to you.

I love the site and the work of David & Michelle, but that is dated legalese and the specific reason that I never post any pictures on Exploroz. I have lots I'd love to share, but find those terms unacceptable, even if they are largely unenforceable.

It is quite easy for them to be changed and now this topic has raised its head, maybe David and Michelle will do so.

More on this general area here Pro-imaging Bill Of Rights

Red hot tip - your bank, your loyalty cards and your local council are your weakest links when it comes to personal information sharing...

Cheers,

Tim
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:33

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 10:33
Dang - can't edit.
Should have also noted that in addition to words and pictures, waypoint plots and any other data. *Including your personal data*

I do trust David & Michelle, but why should I?

Cheers,

Tim
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Follow Up By: Member - John G- Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 11:21

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 11:21
Thanks Tim

I thought I had read recently how Facebook had been manipulated to the detriment of a user or users, not by the site owner but by 'outsiders'.

Your points are very well-made and appreciated, and do emphasise the need for the action that I am guilty of not taking, i.e. always reading the fine print. I will read the Exploroz terms of use.

I agree the thrust of your "red hot tip".

Thanks again
John

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 16:44

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 16:44
John
You only become a target if you click the yes button, I always delete emailed offers, and I just love deleting those stupid emails that ask to send on to the next 7 friends ,PMO.. ,
I have a face book account, I see all the crap on the sides trying to entice , all you gotta do is ignore them .

.
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Follow Up By: Fiona & Paul - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:35

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 22:35
All major sites have terms of use policies, they have to to protect themselves from users who try to hijack their services or utilise their site for their own gain.

When I upload images here I do so for the benefit of other users, if someone wants to pinch one that's fine, if they start making money with it in their name thats another kettle of fish and I'll have a bit of a yarn to them when it happens.

The government and Telstra sell personal details on a regular basis and as Doug T says, you only become a target if you click the yes bitton.
Paul H
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 00:51

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 00:51
Government, partially correct.
Telstra, completely incorrect.

The government has a wide rein, yes. But only where obligated, does it "sell" info such as electoral roll.

As a listed company, Telstra is actually incredibly careful with data both internally and externally. Telstra does not "sell on" your data. If a company or charity buys a phone book and calls from it, that's not Telstra's doing. The same goes for all major telcos and service companies.

They have very strict guidelines on how often and who can be contacted about anything. And those are adhered to. Nothing is perfect, but you paint a dark picture that is a long way from reality.

Ironically, this scaremongering now actually makes it incredibly hard for companies to speak to existing customers about new services and offers *which might save them money* as they ticked the no marketing box. It's amazing how irate some of these customers then get when they find out they've been paying over the odds and couldn't legally be advised as such.

Cheers,

Tim
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Follow Up By: Fiona & Paul - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 09:51

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 09:51
Thanks for bringing me up to date and pointing out where I was wrong 'timglobal'.

I think you are up to up to mischief by tossing out a few worms, but you've told me all I need to know. Thanks for that!
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Follow Up By: Pete Jackman (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 13:50

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 13:50
timglobal:

"Telstra does not "sell on" your data"

So what about them selling the electronic white paged on CD that can be searched by street address?

Pete
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 16:22

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 16:22
Could you provide some reference to this product? I'm not aware of its existence.

I should probably point out that I don't work for Telstra, btw.
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Follow Up By: Pete Jackman (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 20:45

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 20:45
It may no longer be available but I have used two products in a previous job:

WhitePages CD - published by Tesltra.
Australia on Disk - it used to list all numbers and is still commercially available for business numbers.

You could use either to reverse search numbers, locate numbers in a given street or at a specific address or geolocation. Brilliant for marketing.



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Follow Up By: timglobal - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2009 at 09:58

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2009 at 09:58
Hey Pete,

You're slightly mistaken. And we're waaaaay off topic. But hey.

> WhitePages CD - published by Telstra.

This hasn't existed for 5 years.
This contained all (non-silent) phone numbers from all telcos, also known as the IPND. It isn't a list of Telstra customers that can be mailed.
It required at least surname and state to return a match. It did not allow street level searches - in fact it died as people preferred to use whitepages online as a disk is out of date the moment it is pressed.
If you did brute force the disc by using a list of surnames (and it's a moronic exercise compared to ordering and reading off a white pages) then you were in breach of the terms of use, copyright and privacy legislation. Turn yourself in at your nearest Police Station, please.
It was published, and versions continue to be published an accessible, ie at White Pages
It is published by Sensis / Telstra as a legal requirement of their carriage licence.
More info on the IPND here IPND info

To reiterate, Telstra does not sell its customers details.

> Australia on Disk
This is a bit of a red herring as its businesses, but I'll fillet it and cook it up anyway.
Businesses tend not to be circumspect about their listings as new customers can't call silent numbers and company details are a matter of public record.
AoD actually now also do residential numbers, but none of this comes from Telstra.
To quote them:
"What's the difference between this disc and the disc Telstra banned?

The other discs that have been consequently shut down over the years were simply plain dumps from the yellow pages. The data from AOD has been compiled from multiple reputable sources, sourced specifically by our team and is regularly updated. Also the price was a lot more expensive for these discs. Brylar's Australia On Disc and DTMS Marketing Pro ranged up to $1500 AUD. That makes almost a third of the price for a completely better database. Also keep in mind older discs had nothing like the number of emails, URL's, faxes, contact names etc that this current version of Australia On Disc has."

Roundup:
There were a couple of cowboy outfits that effectively stole information around 2003-4 by scanning directories (both white and yellow) but they were unrelated to Telstra. In fact Telstra did you a favour by shutting them down.
I know knocking Telstra is a favourite pastime and I think they stink in many ways, but this isn't one. In this area, Telstra are actually very good and put considerable effort into preventing this activity.
If you believe that Telstra has sold your, or others information, then you could sue them for a lot of money. Good luck.

Cheers,

Tim
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 11:41

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 11:41
Face book is for the young and the stupid with too much time on their hands.. Michael
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Follow Up By: Rolly - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 12:30

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 12:30
Somebody forgot to tell the President of the USA and His Holiness the Pope about that, Michael! :D
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Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 13:34

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 13:34
LOL. One could argue that one fits the "young and..." category while the other fits the "too much time..." category...
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Follow Up By: timglobal - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 14:39

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 14:39
And Exploroz for the senior end of that "stupid with too much time on their hands" spectrum?
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 16:49

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 16:49
timglobal
Oh thanks for the compliment , now ya can rack off,

.
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Follow Up By: stefan & 12 times Dakar winner - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 17:01

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 17:01
I think ya nailed it timglobal!

Facebook for the young and free

and

Exploroz for the old and cashed up :)

:-P
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 20:20

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 20:20
I can only assume that Michael is using his best lure.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 21:22

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 21:22
Sorry Guys, I just couldnt help myself!! I wish i could catch fish that easily!! To be honest, i havent even been on the site nor really know what its all about.. A friend of mine who is in England at the moment, sent me an Email and she directed me to her face book, i went to the site but you must join or log in,, so buggar it, it as all too hard.. so i didnt bother.. BUT!! i have a feeling my first post may have some truth in it.. Michael.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 01:05

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2009 at 01:05
Micheal

you bring the best out of people.... LOL

you just have to love DT answer... LOL

Cheers

Richard
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Reply By: Willem - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 14:38

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 14:38
Once you enter the realm of the internet anything you contribute to it is fair game.

Companies including Telstra, your banks, your local council etc etc can onsell your personal information.

Nothing is sacred any more. You are out there in the www.

I listed our personal website in 2001. Eight years later and in the avenue of Genealogy I have had just about all of my research lifted from my pages and deposited somewhere else where the person lifting it has claimed the research as their own. I too have taken research from other websites for my pages but have acknowledged where it was obtained from.

Over the years I have received innumerable spam from people who have used my website as a hurdle to my email account. These days I have a Spam Filter and my ISP a one and very little gets through.

Anyway, your name may be in the telephone directory and people can find you there.

Even ExplorOz isn't safe as people here regularly lift the photo off my personal info(Rig Pic), enlarge it, fiddle with it and post it as their contribution to a Forum Thread And remember everything you post here stays on this website until such time as it is delisted off the internet.

All you have to do is to be careful with whom you deal with and delete into cyberspace any material you don't trust.


Cheers


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Follow Up By: timglobal - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 14:49

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 14:49
Willem,
Wise words as ever.
It's a shame your hard work has been plagiarised by others. I've been impressed with your site and enjoyed your yarns and articles.
The internet allows plagiarism and shysters, but fortunately also allows detection with almost equal simplicity as you've found.
Do keep updating your site and let us know.
Cheers,
Tim
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 16:51

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 16:51
Willem
Yeh... good thoughts, but really great to see your new hairyplane.

.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 18:30

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 18:30
What!!!!
On THIS site?
Are you sure???

Hahahaha
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 18:41

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 18:41
Hey Hairy

Whilst I can take a joke and a ribbing you are starting to push the envelope too far. In fact I am sure that you are infringing upon my and David's copyright by lifting the photos and altering them. Whereas I see no reason to make an issue of this, I can if I wish to.

Go work on your bike instead of giving me grief


LOL


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 19:48

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 19:48
Jeeze Willem...sory.... did I hit a nerve. ( are you refering to the post with the plane?)
Dont know about the copyright thing I wouldnt have thought a rig pic was copyrighted?
Anyway.......I promise I wont pull this pi$$ anymore.
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 20:03

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 20:03
No Hairy...you didn't hit nerve


You just need to take your Smartpills regularly :-)
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Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 21:03

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 21:03
Hey Willem

See AnswerID: 347224 in this thread. A certain gentleman from Moss Vale is calling us YOUNG & UNWISE.

I dont mind the young thing but I resemble the unwise bit.
Cheers Colin.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 21:35

Monday, Feb 02, 2009 at 21:35
Hey Colin, A gentleman...... Thanks for that.... I take it all back!!! :) Michael
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